Leafs 08/09

[kosydar 0]

Don't remember there being a thread on them yet (with good reason), but if one comes up I'll merge them.

Kaberle has been awful and I don't know if I really want him on the Leafs anymore. I don't remember him every being an elite defensive defenseman, but he is downright awful most nights in his own end. Hopefully they trade him this summer when that window opens up.

Toskala and Cujo have been terrible.

Kubina has been very streaky as well. Those four have provided no stability from the back end, which was supposed to be the only "strength" of the team.

I wasn't overly impressed with the Hagman and Finger signings in July, but I love both of them now.

Trading a pick for Mayers is sucky right now. He hasn't been that amazing grinder everyone promised he would be.

Blake sucks but what else is new.

I've never been an Ian White fan, but he has been pretty impressive at times this year. He is playing like, well, a guy who is playing to keep his job.

Antropov and Ponikarovsky have done exactly what I figured they would do. I'd like to see Poni moved, and probably Antropov at the deadline.

The only reason I watch every game is because of the rookies. I absolutely love Schenn and he is quickly becoming my favorite player. Grabs and Kulemin are also very high up on my favorite list. Its really nice being a Leafs fan and being able to see rookies at the top of the rookie scoring list.

I'm really glad Burke came in. It sucks watching your favorite team lose so much, but I take solace in the fact that we'll draft a stud this summer.

[Rustpot 1]

I wasn't overly impressed with the Hagman and Finger signings in July, but I love both of them now.

It will be interesting to see the buzz around Finger when I get back to Houghton/Hancock. Lots of local businesses (especially the ones he worked for as a kid) have plaques with a picture of him in Colorado, and it seems there's always a few locals talking about him.

[KryptOng 9]

I'm still in disbelief that Philly offered Jeff Carter + 1st round pick for Kaberle at the trade deadline last season.

That would've been a very nice trade for both teams actually.

Poni, Antropov, Kaberle, Blake, Toskala and Cujo all need to go, I was hoping for more of a younger team this season. Whatever happend to tanking? <_<

I would like to see Pogge get called up for a few games this season, if he's our future, he needs nhl game experience

Schenn, Hagman, Grabovski, Kulemin, Mitchell, and Finger have been big surprises this year and I agree, they're the only reasons why I still prefer to watch the Leafs games over studying for school! :lol:

Schenn definitely looked solid tonight against the elite Sharks, +1 for him and 5 goals were scored against. the kids's got game!

[kosydar 0]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Carter didn't really start lighting it up until the playoffs last year. Still, I'd love to have him.

I hate to do this but just imagine if we had all these players/picks from the deadline last year- Detroit's 1st (Tucker), Carter and Philly's 1st (Kabs), Bernier and SJ's 1st (Kubina), and either Kesler, Edler/Schneider and Van's 1st or Higgins, someone else and the Hab's 1st (Sundin). Plus McCabe could have gotten something decent back. I'm glad to hear that Burke doesn't believe in NTCs and has only given one to JSG for family medical reasons.

Burke will find a solution for Blake. I wouldn't be surprised to see him buried in the minors until his buyout is feasible.

I've read that Pogge has been far from great this year. Don't really want to throw him to the wolves with this team, especially if he is struggling himself.

[interpathway 9]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Carter didn't really start lighting it up until the playoffs last year.

Definitely. Decided to kick it off against the Caps, I wasn't even really aware of who he was until then last season. Now I'm always monitoring him when he is on the ice.

[mrusse01 0]

I actually thought Blake had been alright on the Moore/White line until they had to break it up due to injuries on the back-end (haven't seen the last couple games due to studying).

I agree Kabby and Kubina haven't played near as well as they can.

Toskala obviously has been terrible.

The 'first' line has been a surprise, Stajan looks somewhat passable as a top 6 forward (huge surprise to me).

I disagree on Finger, I hate him, I think he's been brutal.

Mayers has been shit, no point having him on the team.

Jonny Boy Mitchell has been a nice surprise, he could have a long term role on the 4th line.

Hagman is my favorite player on the team right now I think, just unbelievable intensity, he can fly, and he's got way more offensive talent than I gave him credit for. He is one guy who looks like he is PISSED at losing, you can see it on his face. I like guys like that.

Grabs has been amazing obviously, that whole line is a lot of fun to watch.

Schenn I thought started out doing unbelievably, but the last month or so I feel he has come back to earth a bit. He seems a bit weak in front of his net and on defense zone sets, but off the rush he is still awesome 1 on 1.

Stralman bugs me, he looks too soft and small. He's got a load of skill and might be the best skater on the team, but it looks like someone stuck a forward back on defense whenever I see him in his own zone, he just kind of gets out of people's way sometimes.

[kosydar 0]

Stralman has bugged me too. Last year I was really high on him, mainly because I was excited at having a D with a lot of potential. I know they play two different styles, but having Schenn in the system makes me not like Stralman as much.

I forgot to mention earlier, but I'd love to see Stajan traded. I like him and I think he is a good third liner (although not physical enough). But with him playing like a first liner now, it is the perfect time to move him.

What don't you like about Finger? I'll give you that he was horrible in the Chicago game, but other than that I think he hasn't been noticeable (which in his case is a good thing). He his a good hitter who adds a nice level of physical play on the blueline. In 18 games this year he has only been a minus three times (the Chicago game, last night's ass kicking, and a game against Carolina which I think was the blowout). He is delivering exactly what was said he would.

[chippa13 1844]

I think Toronto will be mired in mediocrity as long as they stick with wayward veterans and refuse to develop talent.

[kosydar 0]

Thanks Captain Obvious.

[chippa13 1844]

Anytime, perhaps they should consider grabbing Avery. I hear he'll be available soon and without Tucker the Leafs are short one prick.

[kosydar 0]

No thanks, we're rebuilding.

[Chadd 916]

Anytime, perhaps they should consider grabbing Avery. I hear he'll be available soon and without Tucker the Leafs are short one prick.

As opposed to when they had a short prick?

[mrusse01 0]

Stralman has bugged me too. Last year I was really high on him, mainly because I was excited at having a D with a lot of potential. I know they play two different styles, but having Schenn in the system makes me not like Stralman as much.

I forgot to mention earlier, but I'd love to see Stajan traded. I like him and I think he is a good third liner (although not physical enough). But with him playing like a first liner now, it is the perfect time to move him.

What don't you like about Finger? I'll give you that he was horrible in the Chicago game, but other than that I think he hasn't been noticeable (which in his case is a good thing). He his a good hitter who adds a nice level of physical play on the blueline. In 18 games this year he has only been a minus three times (the Chicago game, last night's ass kicking, and a game against Carolina which I think was the blowout). He is delivering exactly what was said he would.

I'd like to see Stajan traded as well, I don't think Burke is going to like his soft/non-skill style. Plus he's part of the 'old guard' they've been liquidating. What could you really get for him, 2nd rounder? At most I'd think.

Maybe you're right about Finger, the Chicago game was just Wendel's Night and the whole deal, so I was so psyched up for the game I could be over-attributing his terrible play that one night to the whole season. His +/- stats are pretty impressive though, I'll have to keep a closer eye on him. His contract hurts him, it's not his fault, but he'll never live up to that.

[Eazy_b97 1]

I agree that Finger's been weak this season. He has a decent game every now and then and he looked great against LA. Aside from that he makes alot of mistakes for a defensive d-man. Tends to get caught flat footed, has trouble with the puck downlow, doesn't read defensive situations well. He is an excellent PKer, shot blocker and hitter. Aside from that he's been less than impressive.

I struggle to get a feel on Hagman and Grabovski. Both love to turn the puck over, but both do many more positive things than negative ones. Fun, but frustrating to watch these two. I do love having Kulemin on the line with them, the kid can fly. I don't know if he'll be a first liner down the road, but he should be a solid top 6 guy.

Schenn impresses me, but I do wonder how we'd look with Boedker (who we were expected to take at #7) instead. That said, it's hard not to like Schenn, I just don't love his ceiling. He'll be a very strong d-man for a very long time though. Stralman looks good when he gets ice-time, but he hasn't seen alot of it. Kubina's streaky, like you said Kosy, he's always been. Kabs is going through the motions, looking like he wants out badly.

I really wish we had Burke at last year's deadline. Not a doubt in my mind he would've moved the NTC players for those returns instead of letting them take their time, think it out, and then getting pissed at them after the deadline, like Fletcher did. Burke's already said if someone doesn't waive their NTC, they simply won't play.

Probably the most frustrating part of the season (which I expected to be a long one) has been Toskala. He just seems to be so prone to giving up bad goals. He's a better goalie than he's showing, but he's getting beaten far too often at the moment.

[kosydar 0]

I don't see Kaberle lasting too much longer on this team. It would not surprise me to see him waive his NTC long before the deadline. This season his weakness in the defensive zone has become apparent. Lately he looks like he isn't even trying out there anymore. Last night he was -3 in under 14 minutes after being benched in the first. He is still a great player but it seems to me that he is simply tired of playing on a losing team. He would fit in great on a team like Detroit or Anaheim, one that already has solid defensive depth. I just hope that Burke can get him to agree to move, especially before J-Bo does. Its frustrating to watch him play like this because he has been one of my players for a long time. I just can't imagine him sticking with the Leafs that much longer.

Its funny you mentioned Boedker. Before the draft that is who I wanted the Leafs to pick. After last night (and I know its only one game), I was satisfied with who we got. It amazes me that in the last two games where we gave up 11 goals, Schenn was a +2.

[kosydar 0]

I was thinking about Kaberle more and I really do think we'll see him moved this season. If I'm not mistaken, there is a window in his contract this summer if the Leafs don't make the playoffs where he can be traded without his permission. If I'm him I realize this team is finishing at the bottom of the league and that the window will certainly be open this summer. I'd rather choose where I go (and get a Cup run in) this year, than have no say in it this summer.

[Eazy_b97 1]

I think he's gone for sure. He looks like he's waiting out a trade, definately not putting in effort. I really don't think it's the losing that bothers him, just the situation he was put in, but that's just my belief.

[kosydar 0]

What situation? Being the best player on a rebuilding team? Or constantly being asked to waive his NTC? If it is the latter the easiest solution to that would have been waiving last year at the deadline. I've always gotten the feeling from him that he never wanted to be in the spotlight, and he would much rather sit back and just play his quiet game. With Sundin gone he is the best player on the team. And with outspoken players like McCabe and Tucker gone, the focus is on him. He is in a frustrating situation and I would not blame him one bit if he wanted out. I just hope that if/when they move him, they move him because they get a good offer and don't move him just for the sake of moving him.

[KryptOng 9]

Looks like "Napolean" overworking the players on that Western road trip and Friday morning practice is taking it's toll on the players based on tonight's game. Schenner's now out minimum 2 weeks with a "lower body" injury. From the replays, it appears to be his left leg/knee. Possibly a bruised or sprained knee. Hopefully it's nothing too serious and some rest will help!

[Eazy_b97 1]

What situation? Being the best player on a rebuilding team? Or constantly being asked to waive his NTC? If it is the latter the easiest solution to that would have been waiving last year at the deadline. I've always gotten the feeling from him that he never wanted to be in the spotlight, and he would much rather sit back and just play his quiet game. With Sundin gone he is the best player on the team. And with outspoken players like McCabe and Tucker gone, the focus is on him. He is in a frustrating situation and I would not blame him one bit if he wanted out. I just hope that if/when they move him, they move him because they get a good offer and don't move him just for the sake of moving him.

Definately the trade deadline fiasco. Pissed off the players a fair bit, and didn't get the job done. Really a bad move in my eyes. If Fletcher wanted to force them out, he had to make threats before the deadline passed, not after. He tried to use the media to push the players out, it didn't work, but it's built up over the summer and they've been blamed for some time now. I honestly believe Mats would be back if not for that approach.

[kosydar 0]

The five with the NTCs were blamed strongly in the media for the Leafs sucking, and I think that would have happened regardless of if Cliff tried to move them or not. To be fair, the media was right in blaming them. The team was built around those core five players, and after three years they all failed to deliver what was expected of them. Its much more realistic to say that Mats, McCabe, Kaberle, Kubina and Tucker are the reason the Leafs missed the playoffs for the past three seasons than it is to say it was Devereaux, Pohl, White, Stajan and Gill's fault. It isn't to say that they failed on an individual level (especially Mats and Kaberle), but as a whole they did. Those five were not a good core to be built around, and Cliff needed to purge them. I don't know how much the deadline last year has influenced Mats. Nobody really knows what is going on in his mind right now, so its hard to pinpoint why he won't go back to the Leafs. My best guess of why he isn't coming back to TO is because he is sick of being on a losing team. If he comes back it isn't to collect a paycheck or to play another season on a losing team. He would come back to win I think, but then again that is just a guess. I think that Mats understands the business side of it and knows Cliff was put in a tough situation.

[Eazy_b97 1]

My issue isn't getting them out, it's that we need to get something for them. Right now we have MVR and cap-hits to show for losing Tucker, McCabe and Sundin. Mats was a PPG player, McCabe is doing very well in Florida, while Tucker is struggling.

[kosydar 0]

I haven't watched too many Colorado games but it appears that Tucker is picking up where he finished last year. It was a dumb team for him to sign with because they have a ton of forwards who will get more ice time than him, and they have a lot of grinders who fill his same role. I wouldn't be surprised to see him retire after next season. McCabe is certainly doing well, and whats even more impressive is that he is given how deep Florida's defense is. JBo, Ballard, Boynton, and McCabe is a pretty damn good top four. But honestly, do you think McCabe could have ever done well again in Toronto? I know I don't. I have faith that Fletch tried his best to get good returns for those three, but ultimately couldn't. I was more upset about Fletch losing someone like Wellwood for nothing and giving up draft picks for Hollweg and Mayers.

[chippa13 1844]

Have the Leafs finally given up on the notion of Sundin returning or are they still sitting on that cap space?

[kosydar 0]

Burke said in his first press conference that the thinks Mats will only return to a contender, which disqualifies the Leafs. The cap space will hopefully be saved until July (especially if the cap goes down), or used to facilitate a trade and take on a bad contract.