HockeyGiant.com

[porky45 1]

That is if you have a email client that uses pictures. I use Mutt on a shell account, which is a 100% text based All I see is take 70% off CCM Practice Jerseys, go to the site, add the items to my shopping cart, then use their coupon code for 70% off. Not my fault that they didn't raise their own prices.

You're right, it's not your fault. It is their fault. That's probably why they called you. They knew they made a mistake and rather than cancelling your order (like some companies I know...) they wanted to talk to you face to face (haha well over the phone) and still give you the chance to purchase the order for a discounted price which as stated before i think it is a pretty damn good price if you're looking for those types of jerseys.

As far as not being able to profit from distributors. It seems to go without saying, however if you couldn't profit off of distributors then everybody would have to by direct from the manufacturer. Like CTHOCKEY said, it's not that you don't profit, it's just that you don't profit AS MUCH.

[IniNew 53]

Although on the site it says 29.99, the advertisement clearly says what the final price is going to be, 16.49.

It's sorta tricky, but I think fair.

That is if you have a email client that uses pictures. I use Mutt on a shell account, which is a 100% text based All I see is take 70% off CCM Practice Jerseys, go to the site, add the items to my shopping cart, then use their coupon code for 70% off. Not my fault that they didn't raise their own prices.

Yeah... it's not their fault that you use an outdated way of receiving email. Although some companies offer an option to get just text based email, it's not some sort of requirement.

[Invert 13]

Too be honest, I could care less about the jerseys. It is the deceptive pricing that is the original reason for this post. It is more like 20% off, which is fine. The customer does not need to be tricked into thinking that they are saving more than they really are.

[porky45 1]

Too be honest, I could care less about the jerseys. It is the deceptive pricing that is the original reason for this post. It is more like 20% off, which is fine. The customer does not need to be tricked into thinking that they are saving more than they really are.

I agree.

Welcome to online marketing....

[TBLfan 25]

No where did it say on the site or coupon that it was 70% off the listed price (29.99) it stated that it was 70% off $54.99 making the final discounted price $16.49.

Although I agree that it's ahem "lame" of them to raise the price on an item that is usually $29.99 up to $54.99 just to make it seem like you're getting a better deal, one must understand that this is part of marketing.

They aren't raising the price, they are stating the "original" price or projected MSRP then taking the discount. It doesn't say "70% off current sale price." They aren't the only store to do this, most sales are percentages taken off the original price.

[SirJW 207]

Thanks for your replies on this.

[IniNew 53]

Too be honest, I could care less about the jerseys. It is the deceptive pricing that is the original reason for this post. It is more like 20% off, which is fine. The customer does not need to be tricked into thinking that they are saving more than they really are.

I think you miss the point of what some of the posters are saying. It's not deceptive advertisement when it clearly says "Original Price: $54.99, New Price: $16.47" or whatever it was. There's absolutely no deception right there.

[HawksFan6 0]

I don't have a problem with the Giant. I ordered a jersey (for my men's league team) a few days ago and paid for 2nd day air because I have a game on Saturday. I still didn't have any shipping confirmation today so I asked customer service about the jersey. They said I would get it tomorrow, no problem. About an hour ago I saw an overnight fedex tracking number sent to my email. Granted, they should have had it done a few days ago but they sure remedied the problem and communicated well.

[sarmalidu 1]

I agree with IniNew - this is pretty transparent if you take more than 0.237 seconds to think about it. If you see this add which specifically states the "original price" upon which the discount is based then the deal is pretty clear. If you go to the website and see the normal price is lower than the "original" that the discount is based off of, then it's pretty clear that the deal you are getting is not as good as the ad might suggest. This is where you need to use your own brain and decide if the deal at the final price is good enough for you. If yes, buy, if no, move on.

You may say this is deceptive, but honestly it's a win-win situation as long as you behave like an informed consumer. The stores may still sell some product at a smaller discount to customers that are willing to pay more but heavily value oriented customers will wait for better prices. This is essentially the same market segmentation concept that is used by big box retail and grocery stores. You put a sticker price up that's relatively high so that people who don't care (usually people who make more money and don't bother to shop around) give you a better profit margin. However, using sales / marketing / coupons you also make a higher number of total sales due to more reluctant customers that may still make profitable purchases but are not willing to shell out the big bucks.

They get to have their cake and eat it to. It's a smart business practice and it really isn't that confusing. It's pretty easy to take 2 minutes to shop a couple other stores and found out how good a deal really is. It also allows patient customers (such as myself) an opportunity to save more by cherry picking deals that are actually quite good. Just my fifty cents :)

[Jarick 5]

I guess I don't see it as a problem as I've seen stores do this since I was a kid and I've never had to calculate my own discount when shopping online.

[Eddie20 0]

I guess I just don't see the deception. HG has been doing ads like this for a while. Always X% off the retail/original price. Never off the sale price.

I love HG for their sales. I've gotten some great deals over the past few years. They have their issues, but they've always done me right in the end. No different than any other online business.

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

JR now you confused me even more. Lets take V40 skate for example, it's made in china, are you telling me that my local Just Hockey store gets it shipped directly from China at their price. Last time I checked it's shipped to a Distributor warehouse in Mississauga, Ontario and the local dealers like Just Hockey get it from that warehouse. Now the only question mark is do they get it at a price of true manufacturing wholesale or distributor wholesale. I know when V40 skate came out it was retail at about $750 CND and stores like Just hockey bought it for about $460 CND. Would you say that's true wholesale purchase price or did they pay the distributor price?

Then we have the chain stores like National Sports, now I have no idea how they work, but they do have enough stores to be able to get shipments directly form China, the only question is do they also pay $460 or a lot less. My guess is less, since they have SMU models as well.

So when you say dealers deal directly with Manufacturer, please explain what type of dealers do you refer to?

Actually the more interesting question would be how much do teams pay for their stuff. For example AHL/ EAST coat, JR at what cost do the teams get it from the manufacturer? Is it even lower then HG & HM?

Cheers.

No. The skate goes from the factory to the Bauer warehouse in either Ontario or New Hampshire, and then shipped to the authorized dealer.

The more you order, the bigger percentage you get off. So, a small LHS could order $10,000 from Bauer and get a 2% discount, as opposed to an bigger LHS who can get 10% when they order in the six figures.

A distributor such as Hockey West, NESSI, Murray Sandler and Hockey Warehouse have accounts with manufacturers and buys just like an authorized dealer does. They then flip it to stores that don't have accounts with manufacturers. My previous employer had a wholesale division - they would go over the closeout lists. They would buy them, transfer some to our stores, and then try to flip the remainder to other dealers. Obviously the distributors mark the product up, hence Chadd's comment about unauthorized dealers not making as much money on it.

As far as your pro comment, in some cases, teams may pay more as prostock sticks can be more at cost than the retail counterpart. I am not privy to pro numbers, but the risk of buying in volume in order to receive a bigger discount as well as worrying about sell-through can't be taken into account because the product is destined to be used immediately.

[gxc999 7]

I've had Giant botch, delay and completely screw up several of my orders. I try to only order from them as a last resort now. IW has been the most reliable place for me by far.

[pizzakid13 5]

i actually had no problem on a stick return. they quoted the wrong flex and took it back and paid for shipping.

That person has been fired.

i actually lol!

anyway, very interesting thread. i was in my local rink tuesday and they were getting all the new gear unwrapped. i think it was rbk and ccm. i asked if they were getting in the new x60 and they said no which i found surprising. its a 4 rink complex with a ton of teams. you'd think that they could sell a bunch but i guess not.

[Aussie Joe 0]

i actually had no problem on a stick return. they quoted the wrong flex and took it back and paid for shipping.

That person has been fired.

hahahah....one of the better posts I've seen in a while.

I support my LHS for numerous reasons, but I would do it based on the ridiculous shipping and "handling" prices they both charge. I can't remember which is worse than the other.

HM is better for shipping than HG for us in the land down under, $80 US minimum as opposed to over $200 US!

Ouch...

You must be talking OPS shipping there Phunk. I scored my TPS gloves from HG for only $40 shipping. BTW: PM me if you want the web address of a dealer we go through here in VIC that ships Easton, Bauer etc to Aus.

[Jackal_17 0]

Feel free to break this off into a new topic at this point...

The cost of OPS to the pros has gone up in the past few years. I recently met with a NHL EQM who is a client of mine and he told me what his budget was. I nearly fell over when he told me what it USED to be (even higher)!

Depending on the player, most EQM order 2 dozen sticks at a time. It is more than fair to say that some of these teams are spending $150k or more with some companies, when you factor in skates and sticks. Skates are running $500 per pair (most models are more). Then, the team pays local sales tax on that (say 5% = $25), and then, add in shipping that in most cases is Next Day Air ($130 for normal NDA, $190 for Early Delivery NDA, $220 for Saturday Delivery). So, when you add it all up, that pair of skates is costing the team a minimum of $650!!!

As far as your pro comment, in some cases, teams may pay more as prostock sticks can be more at cost than the retail counterpart. I am not privy to pro numbers, but the risk of buying in volume in order to receive a bigger discount as well as worrying about sell-through can't be taken into account because the product is destined to be used immediately.

Very interesting thread! Thank you very much for all your expertise!

I have a few questions (please pardon some of my ignorance):

So Kane is sponsored head to toe with Bauer, what does that sponsorship entails? Does he get his equipment for free (ie. the team doesn't have to pay for it)?

If RBK is the official sponsor of the NHL and I read somewhere in one of the threads that each team gets some equipment from RBK, who pays for it? NHL or each team? Or is it freebie?

Thanks in advance for your answer!

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

Feel free to break this off into a new topic at this point...

The cost of OPS to the pros has gone up in the past few years. I recently met with a NHL EQM who is a client of mine and he told me what his budget was. I nearly fell over when he told me what it USED to be (even higher)!

Depending on the player, most EQM order 2 dozen sticks at a time. It is more than fair to say that some of these teams are spending $150k or more with some companies, when you factor in skates and sticks. Skates are running $500 per pair (most models are more). Then, the team pays local sales tax on that (say 5% = $25), and then, add in shipping that in most cases is Next Day Air ($130 for normal NDA, $190 for Early Delivery NDA, $220 for Saturday Delivery). So, when you add it all up, that pair of skates is costing the team a minimum of $650!!!

As far as your pro comment, in some cases, teams may pay more as prostock sticks can be more at cost than the retail counterpart. I am not privy to pro numbers, but the risk of buying in volume in order to receive a bigger discount as well as worrying about sell-through can't be taken into account because the product is destined to be used immediately.

Very interesting thread! Thank you very much for all your expertise!

I have a few questions (please pardon some of my ignorance):

So Kane is sponsored head to toe with Bauer, what does that sponsorship entails? Does he get his equipment for free (ie. the team doesn't have to pay for it)?

If RBK is the official sponsor of the NHL and I read somewhere in one of the threads that each team gets some equipment from RBK, who pays for it? NHL or each team? Or is it freebie?

Thanks in advance for your answer!

Player endorsements are a monetary agreement between said player and manufacturer that he will use their product. The team pays for it.

Reebok gives NHL teams an amount of equipment as part of their deal with them. That's why you see a lot of the prospects all using Reebok stuff. Which also explains why I have so many RBK gloves. LOL

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

Thanks...actually now that makes sense.

Weren't they doing that with sticks at the beginning? Teams had to return them?

[stefanmoscow 0]

I support my LHS for numerous reasons, but I would do it based on the ridiculous shipping and "handling" prices they both charge. I can't remember which is worse than the other.

HM is better for shipping than HG for us in the land down under, $80 US minimum as opposed to over $200 US!

Ouch...

did you try hockeyworld.com? They do not offer international delivery on the site. but when you ask the sales guys they come up with an offer. and usually shipping is on the low end

[yatyas 0]

No where did it say on the site or coupon that it was 70% off the listed price (29.99) it stated that it was 70% off $54.99 making the final discounted price $16.49.

Although I agree that it's ahem "lame" of them to raise the price on an item that is usually $29.99 up to $54.99 just to make it seem like you're getting a better deal, one must understand that this is part of marketing.

They aren't raising the price, they are stating the "original" price or projected MSRP then taking the discount. It doesn't say "70% off current sale price." They aren't the only store to do this, most sales are percentages taken off the original price.

Too be honest, I could care less about the jerseys. It is the deceptive pricing that is the original reason for this post. It is more like 20% off, which is fine. The customer does not need to be tricked into thinking that they are saving more than they really are.

I think you miss the point of what some of the posters are saying. It's not deceptive advertisement when it clearly says "Original Price: $54.99, New Price: $16.47" or whatever it was. There's absolutely no deception right there.

I agree with IniNew - this is pretty transparent if you take more than 0.237 seconds to think about it. If you see this add which specifically states the "original price" upon which the discount is based then the deal is pretty clear. If you go to the website and see the normal price is lower than the "original" that the discount is based off of, then it's pretty clear that the deal you are getting is not as good as the ad might suggest. This is where you need to use your own brain and decide if the deal at the final price is good enough for you. If yes, buy, if no, move on.

You may say this is deceptive, but honestly it's a win-win situation as long as you behave like an informed consumer. The stores may still sell some product at a smaller discount to customers that are willing to pay more but heavily value oriented customers will wait for better prices. This is essentially the same market segmentation concept that is used by big box retail and grocery stores. You put a sticker price up that's relatively high so that people who don't care (usually people who make more money and don't bother to shop around) give you a better profit margin. However, using sales / marketing / coupons you also make a higher number of total sales due to more reluctant customers that may still make profitable purchases but are not willing to shell out the big bucks.

They get to have their cake and eat it to. It's a smart business practice and it really isn't that confusing. It's pretty easy to take 2 minutes to shop a couple other stores and found out how good a deal really is. It also allows patient customers (such as myself) an opportunity to save more by cherry picking deals that are actually quite good. Just my fifty cents :)

Not to be an ass, cause I agree with both sides in principal, but nowhere on the add does it say "Original Price" is says "Our Price" and if you look on the website it says "Regular Price" which could be assumed is MSRP and "Our Price" which is a discounted from MSRP price. Tie in the fact he has a crap email account I can see why he was upset, sorta, although the price is still pretty damn awesome for what you're getting. If they explained the misunderstanding in the phone call, and you know you have lame, no picture email and could miss something, suck it up - don't whine cause you missed the info given in the complete email add which makes it pretty damn clear it's 70% off the "Our Price" of 54.99. Just my .02 cents while stuck in the no hockey land of Iraq.

[SirJW 207]

Just an FYI, about shipping and handling, when that XVI deal started, I alerted my team and we ordered a half dozen sticks which saved us....

[CTHockey 2]

I worked part time for a couple local AHL teams and the head EQM have a scanner hooked up to their computers. Whenever a stick breaks they simply scan the barcode into the system which is then sent to RBK/CCM. Under the contract ive been told they pretty much have a unlimited supply of sticks. They are only allowed to keep a certain number in stock at all times but they will continually be replaced if and when the barcodes are scanned. Under the rest of the contract they are given so many gloves, helmets, pants, and protective items to suit up the team and any additional players that may come along.

[CaptainFantastik 0]

My favorite time of the year is right now.. Hockey is finally over so the traffic through our store is minimal at best.. And i think of our booking orders as somewhat of christmas presents. I get to unwrapped Hundreds of boxes and play with all the new equipment and twigs that come in!!!!

HG might have one the contract for those sticks but seems like a waste of money to me. They'll be selling those things for a long long time and at the end of the day the profit probably isnt the best! Someone also mentioned you cant make a profit selling at wholesale, I think that couldnt be any further from the truth. Your still gonna make a profit, just not as much as the big boys who buy direct from the manufactorer and receive additional discounts on items for doing so.

Ah, so booking orders are a staple of the hockey industry as well I see. Very nice for the rep if he has a nice roster of dealers willing to book out. Over the last year and a half as a dive industry sales rep in a down economy it was like pulling teeth trying to get dealers to agree to plan out for the year.

[CTHockey 2]

I dont think we could survive or do as well without booking orders. First of all we get free shipping so that saves us thousands right from the start. Second it gives us all our product on hand so that when our customers want something we have it. All the big companys give us special booking terms so that we dont actually start paying for it until the buying season begins. After booking season its kind of like russian roulette trying to order product for customers. Sometimes they have it and sometimes they dont. The big companies are trying to keep their core products in stock at all times which i thin is a great idea which seemed to work pretty good last year. I think everyone is going to see a big difference in their take home the next few years. I know we cut our total booking orders by a few hundred thousand, the biggest cut back was on one piece sticks. We somewhat narrowed what protective lines we carry, bulked up on the more popular lines that are guaranteed to sell and filled in with small numbers the stuff that might sell randomly or if we push it on customers.

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

My favorite time of the year is right now.. Hockey is finally over so the traffic through our store is minimal at best.. And i think of our booking orders as somewhat of christmas presents. I get to unwrapped Hundreds of boxes and play with all the new equipment and twigs that come in!!!!

HG might have one the contract for those sticks but seems like a waste of money to me. They'll be selling those things for a long long time and at the end of the day the profit probably isnt the best! Someone also mentioned you cant make a profit selling at wholesale, I think that couldnt be any further from the truth. Your still gonna make a profit, just not as much as the big boys who buy direct from the manufactorer and receive additional discounts on items for doing so.

Ah, so booking orders are a staple of the hockey industry as well I see. Very nice for the rep if he has a nice roster of dealers willing to book out. Over the last year and a half as a dive industry sales rep in a down economy it was like pulling teeth trying to get dealers to agree to plan out for the year.

Yes, and they have firm dates for guaranteed delivery.

My old store (before I took over buying) thought that they could strong-arm manufacturers into making them deliver product if they booked late...didn't work out so well...