Skating technique: "light on feet" vs. carving?

[Angora Cat 0]

Hey everyone, I've done a lot of "power skating" before, but I'm still not sure about one crucial aspect of skating: is it better to try to stay as "light" on the ice as possible or is it better to "dig in" with the edges?

At one extreme of the spectrum, I could try to skate essentially like a figure skater and be as light on my feet as possible. Or at the other extreme, I could try to really carve up the ice with all my strides, crossovers, etc.

Obviously, each specific game situation determines which style is better. For speed and agility though, doesn't it make more sense to try to have as light contact with the ice as possible? (Less friction, less wasted energy, etc.)

It looks like there's a variety of skating styles in the NHL too. But most of the best players look like they're floating on the ice when they're gliding.

Thanks.

[chippa13 1844]

You've apparently never seen ice after a figure skater has been on it. They carve up ice like nobody's business.

[gelowitz 0]

I'm sure the friction between being light on your feet and carving into the ice is negligible.

[Aussie Joe 0]

You've apparently never seen ice after a figure skater has been on it. They carve up ice like nobody's business.

From my experience its the HUGE divets left from their toe picks rather then cut outs. Most Zamb drivers who are worth their salt will get all of the above out but.

[chk hrd 164]

You've apparently never seen ice after a figure skater has been on it. They carve up ice like nobody's business.

I agree, good figure skaters cut some mean gooves from using thier edges (not to be confused with holes from toe picks). They have to get alot of power in a short amount of space. Being light on your feet doesn't mean you have to sacrifice power, it means that you are good at transitions, lateral movement and agile.

[Jordan 13]

I have personally watched my daughters figure skating coach tell her to "rip the ice", and to " "sink right into the ice when you push".

I would think that she is telling her to transmit as much power into the ice as possible.

[psh 25]

There are so many different circumstances in a game and so many physiological differences between skaters that I think your question is impossible to answer. When you are accellerating from a stop, you are likely to carve up the ice. If you are maintain speed or swooping into the offensive zone, you are probably light on your feet. I think it all comes down to efficiency--get where you have to be as quickly as you can but while expending minimal energy.

Your questions reminded me of a great quote written by Jack Falla--one of the godfathers of hockey journalism. He was taking part in an Oilers practice session, and he had the chance to compare Messier's and Gretzky's skating. It's from an SI article he wrote, and I think it's also in one of his books. How's this for a dream?

"To watch Gretzky is a pleasure, but to skate with him is a privilege and a revelation for a guy like me, who still plays pickup hockey on a regular basis. The ice in Northlands Coliseum is still smooth with the morning resurfacing when Sather starts the first of the warmup line rushes in an Oiler practice session. I don't take the first run with Gretzky; instead I go with Mark Messier and Gord Sherven, and I'm already well behind the play at the red line, where the dominant sensation is hearing Messier's skates ripping the ice...scrunch...scrunch...scrunch under the pressure of his tremendous leg drive. A few minutes later, as I skate with Gretzky and Sather, it's different. The speed is the same—almost incomprehensible to this average skater—but Gretzky seems to be moving lightly, his skates barely cutting the ice with a snick...snick...snick. The pass from Gretzky to me is perfect, soft and on the stick blade, and my only thought is to get it back to him before he's out of range. But my return pass is terrible, in his skates on his backhand side. In virtually one motion he flicks the puck off his right skate onto his stick and snaps a shot between the goalie's legs. On the rush back, Kurri leaves a drop pass for me in the slot, but it seems somehow presumptuous to shoot, so I pass quickly to Gretzky. He passes it back immediately. I give it to him again at the crease—he has to shoot now—and begin gliding around the net. Incredibly, Gretzky centers the puck from behind the goal line past the goalie and across the crease to me for an easy tap-in. He smiles and yells as the puck clanks against the back of the cage. The look on his face is the same one I've seen on children in backyard rinks. "He still loves the game," says Sather, "and he shows up every day."

[Jarick 5]

I had to read that Falla quote a couple times. Looks like I'll be adding that to my list of books to check out.

[dsjunior1388 81]

There are so many different circumstances in a game and so many physiological differences between skaters that I think your question is impossible to answer. When you are accellerating from a stop, you are likely to carve up the ice. If you are maintain speed or swooping into the offensive zone, you are probably light on your feet. I think it all comes down to efficiency--get where you have to be as quickly as you can but while expending minimal energy.

Your questions reminded me of a great quote written by Jack Falla--one of the godfathers of hockey journalism. He was taking part in an Oilers practice session, and he had the chance to compare Messier's and Gretzky's skating. It's from an SI article he wrote, and I think it's also in one of his books. How's this for a dream?

"To watch Gretzky is a pleasure, but to skate with him is a privilege and a revelation for a guy like me, who still plays pickup hockey on a regular basis. The ice in Northlands Coliseum is still smooth with the morning resurfacing when Sather starts the first of the warmup line rushes in an Oiler practice session. I don't take the first run with Gretzky; instead I go with Mark Messier and Gord Sherven, and I'm already well behind the play at the red line, where the dominant sensation is hearing Messier's skates ripping the ice...scrunch...scrunch...scrunch under the pressure of his tremendous leg drive. A few minutes later, as I skate with Gretzky and Sather, it's different. The speed is the same—almost incomprehensible to this average skater—but Gretzky seems to be moving lightly, his skates barely cutting the ice with a snick...snick...snick. The pass from Gretzky to me is perfect, soft and on the stick blade, and my only thought is to get it back to him before he's out of range. But my return pass is terrible, in his skates on his backhand side. In virtually one motion he flicks the puck off his right skate onto his stick and snaps a shot between the goalie's legs. On the rush back, Kurri leaves a drop pass for me in the slot, but it seems somehow presumptuous to shoot, so I pass quickly to Gretzky. He passes it back immediately. I give it to him again at the crease—he has to shoot now—and begin gliding around the net. Incredibly, Gretzky centers the puck from behind the goal line past the goalie and across the crease to me for an easy tap-in. He smiles and yells as the puck clanks against the back of the cage. The look on his face is the same one I've seen on children in backyard rinks. "He still loves the game," says Sather, "and he shows up every day."

As soon as I saw this thread I was going to add this very same excerpt.

[SolarWind 23]

"To watch Gretzky is a pleasure, but to skate with him is a privilege and a revelation for a guy like me, who still plays pickup hockey on a regular basis. The ice in Northlands Coliseum is still smooth with the morning resurfacing when Sather starts the first of the warmup line rushes in an Oiler practice session. I don't take the first run with Gretzky; instead I go with Mark Messier and Gord Sherven, and I'm already well behind the play at the red line, where the dominant sensation is hearing Messier's skates ripping the ice...scrunch...scrunch...scrunch under the pressure of his tremendous leg drive. A few minutes later, as I skate with Gretzky and Sather, it's different. The speed is the same—almost incomprehensible to this average skater—but Gretzky seems to be moving lightly, his skates barely cutting the ice with a snick...snick...snick. The pass from Gretzky to me is perfect, soft and on the stick blade, and my only thought is to get it back to him before he's out of range. But my return pass is terrible, in his skates on his backhand side. In virtually one motion he flicks the puck off his right skate onto his stick and snaps a shot between the goalie's legs. On the rush back, Kurri leaves a drop pass for me in the slot, but it seems somehow presumptuous to shoot, so I pass quickly to Gretzky. He passes it back immediately. I give it to him again at the crease—he has to shoot now—and begin gliding around the net. Incredibly, Gretzky centers the puck from behind the goal line past the goalie and across the crease to me for an easy tap-in. He smiles and yells as the puck clanks against the back of the cage. The look on his face is the same one I've seen on children in backyard rinks. "He still loves the game," says Sather, "and he shows up every day."

I wonder if it has everything to do with 2 factors: hollow (shallow - Gretz was using 1/2 or shallwoer vs deep - I believe Mess was using deep hollows - this directly depends on the ability to apply edges), and also the "Gretzky rule" - of coruse the guy was elusive, but people weren't allowed to hit him & so he could afford to glide more

vs others that always have to be ready for a hit & so have to always dig the edges in just becasue

[automorph 0]

"Gretzky rule" - of coruse the guy was elusive, but people weren't allowed to hit him & so he could afford to glide more

vs others that always have to be ready for a hit & so have to always dig the edges in just becasue

Whatever........got to be the most ridiculous "urban legend" in hockey

[psh 25]

"Gretzky rule" - of coruse the guy was elusive, but people weren't allowed to hit him & so he could afford to glide more

vs others that always have to be ready for a hit & so have to always dig the edges in just becasue

Whatever........got to be the most ridiculous "urban legend" in hockey

No kidding. I've seen Gretzky put through the glass. That doesn't happen when you're not being hit or guys are pulling up in deference to your legend (or McSorley).

Another myth is that Gretzky played in a high scoring era, so his records should be discounted. First, he arguably played in at least 3 different eras. Second, the Falla article quoted above also notes that half way through the season during which the article was written, Gretzky was 49 points ahead of the #2 scorer. So, that begs the following question: How did Gretzky magically play in a high scoring era, while Jari Kurri and Mike Bossy and his other contemporaries somehow didn't? Third, Gretzky came into the league with the Oilers, who were an expansion team. Imagine Malkin or Crosby or Ovechkin (or Bossy or another great from the 80s) starting with the Coyotes in '96. What kind of numbers would they have put up.

This isn't a Gretzky thread, but some good food for thought.

[furlanitalia 1]

Holy crap, 49 points....

[chippa13 1844]

Let's be honest, the Oilers from the WHA were just a hair better than your average, run of the mill expansion team.

[Bucky25 0]

This is just semantics but the Coyotes were not an expansion team...the Jets moved to Phoenix in '96.

[psh 25]

I know, bad example maybe, but the point is that Gretzky started putting up those number right off the bat, and it wasn't as if he joined the league with the Islanders or one of the other late 70s early 80s go-go teams. When you look at the numbers themselves--the actual data--Gretzky's story becomes even more incredible, if that's even possible. The spread between him and the rest of the league is just so large that it is beyond comprehension. The arguments that are regularly trotted out to diminish his accomplishments are generally anecdotal, self-contradictory, or beside the point.

At the end of the day, I think it's a pretty easy argument to make that Gretzky was the most dominant athlete in any team sport in any era. It's nice that he happened to do it in our sport, in our lifetimes, and was a classy guy.

[Bucky25 0]

Not only was he way ahead of the pack, there were several scorers during the early/mid 80s who would lead the current league in scoring and they were finishing 3rd, 4th, 5th each year...Stasny and Bossy among others. He was the absolute best ever. Period. The “Gretzky Rule” B.S. is just that, B.S. He got hit quite often, even had a "fight" or two ;) He had superior body control and never seemed to take a full-on, punishing hit…that isn’t favoritism, that is superior athletic ability.

Your last point is one of great debate and I don't think it is entirely clear that he was in fact the most dominant in any sport in any era...

Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell and of course Mr. Jordan come to mind in basketball...Ruth in baseball...perhaps even Jim Brown in football. Of course nearly all of us are too young to have witnessed any of these greats, save for MJ. In the end I partially agree and would say that you could make a very very strong case for Gretzky as the best in any era.

[dsjunior1388 81]

Not only was he way ahead of the pack, there were several scorers during the early/mid 80s who would lead the current league in scoring and they were finishing 3rd, 4th, 5th each year...Stasny and Bossy among others. He was the absolute best ever. Period. The “Gretzky Rule” B.S. is just that, B.S. He got hit quite often, even had a "fight" or two ;) He had superior body control and never seemed to take a full-on, punishing hit…that isn’t favoritism, that is superior athletic ability.

Your last point is one of great debate and I don't think it is entirely clear that he was in fact the most dominant in any sport in any era...

Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell and of course Mr. Jordan come to mind in basketball...Ruth in baseball...perhaps even Jim Brown in football. Of course nearly all of us are too young to have witnessed any of these greats, save for MJ. In the end I partially agree and would say that you could make a very very strong case for Gretzky as the best in any era.

The gretzky rule was mcsorely and semenko

[DVX 0]

back to the skating technique.....

light on your feet is a waste of energy and time, more blade on the ice, the greater the contact area, the greater amount of energy transferred.

There are also a few variables such as player weight and blade hollow. Im 230lbs and use 3/4-5/8 hollow depending on the ice conditions and i dig in deep despite the shallow hollow. Im also a ridiculously smooth and efficient skater, especially when utilizing my edges(ie, turning, crossovers etc.)

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

I wonder if it has everything to do with 2 factors: hollow (shallow - Gretz was using 1/2 or shallwoer vs deep - I believe Mess was using deep hollows - this directly depends on the ability to apply edges), and also the "Gretzky rule" - of coruse the guy was elusive, but people weren't allowed to hit him & so he could afford to glide more

vs others that always have to be ready for a hit & so have to always dig the edges in just becasue

Messier skated on a shallower hollow than Gretzky did, there went your other theory.

[JR97 2]

Not only was he way ahead of the pack, there were several scorers during the early/mid 80s who would lead the current league in scoring and they were finishing 3rd, 4th, 5th each year...Stasny and Bossy among others. He was the absolute best ever. Period. The “Gretzky Rule” B.S. is just that, B.S. He got hit quite often, even had a "fight" or two ;) He had superior body control and never seemed to take a full-on, punishing hit…that isn’t favoritism, that is superior athletic ability.

Your last point is one of great debate and I don't think it is entirely clear that he was in fact the most dominant in any sport in any era...

Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell and of course Mr. Jordan come to mind in basketball...Ruth in baseball...perhaps even Jim Brown in football. Of course nearly all of us are too young to have witnessed any of these greats, save for MJ. In the end I partially agree and would say that you could make a very very strong case for Gretzky as the best in any era.

Gretzky wasn't exactly one to go into areas where he was likely to get hit. He even stated as much. (trying to find the quote but it basically said, "what's the point of me going into the corners.")

[Bucky25 0]

Gretzky wasn't exactly one to go into areas where he was likely to get hit. He even stated as much. (trying to find the quote but it basically said, "what's the point of me going into the corners.")

Noted...I guess you can add superior brain power to the list...

[TWerner 0]

Late to this thread, but great reading, and thanks for putting another book on my reading list.

I'm going to throw this out there from curiosity, since somebody said Gretzky might have been the most dominant athlete ever in any team sport. But what about Eddy Merckx? I agree with Wilt Chamberlain and the great one being up there, but wouldn't Merckx have to be considered the most dominant athlete in his sport of all time? He basically didn't need his team, since he could pretty much ride off without them. That'd be like Gretzky playing without his wingmen?

[ISTOUT 0]

There are so many different circumstances in a game and so many physiological differences between skaters that I think your question is impossible to answer. When you are accellerating from a stop, you are likely to carve up the ice. If you are maintain speed or swooping into the offensive zone, you are probably light on your feet. I think it all comes down to efficiency--get where you have to be as quickly as you can but while expending minimal energy.

Your questions reminded me of a great quote written by Jack Falla--one of the godfathers of hockey journalism. He was taking part in an Oilers practice session, and he had the chance to compare Messier's and Gretzky's skating. It's from an SI article he wrote, and I think it's also in one of his books. How's this for a dream?

Just curious what Falla book is this in as I am interested in obtaining it?

Is it in

Home Ice,Open Ice: Reflections and Confessions of a Hockey Lifer, Saved or Hockey: Learn to Play the Modern Way (Sports Illustrated Winner's Circle Books)?

Any help is appreacated..

[ju87 0]

There are so many different circumstances in a game and so many physiological differences between skaters that I think your question is impossible to answer. When you are accellerating from a stop, you are likely to carve up the ice. If you are maintain speed or swooping into the offensive zone, you are probably light on your feet. I think it all comes down to efficiency--get where you have to be as quickly as you can but while expending minimal energy.

Your questions reminded me of a great quote written by Jack Falla--one of the godfathers of hockey journalism. He was taking part in an Oilers practice session, and he had the chance to compare Messier's and Gretzky's skating. It's from an SI article he wrote, and I think it's also in one of his books. How's this for a dream?

Just curious what Falla book is this in as I am interested in obtaining it?

Is it in

Home Ice,Open Ice: Reflections and Confessions of a Hockey Lifer, Saved or Hockey: Learn to Play the Modern Way (Sports Illustrated Winner's Circle Books)?

Any help is appreacated..

I have Learn to Play the Modern Way and it's not in there.