New to SLR cameras

[Hockeyman11385 1]

Haha, +1.

How do you like the new 5D?

LOVE IT. The color saturation is light years ahead of my 30D straight out of the camera....and being able to shoot full frame is a thing of beauty!

That's cool. I would love to have one but I can't justify the cash at the moment.

FourthLineGrind: If you really like the blurred stuff you may want to take a look at the 50mm 1.8. It's really cheap (~$80) and will give you a really shallow depth of focus. It's ridiculously sharp as well for such a cheap lens. Also, the best way to learn about the camera is just to mess around with it, especially in the "creative zone". Get off the green square as fast as possible and you'll learn a lot more.

[Ahriman 1]

Nah, not a typo when it's done multiple times in different posts :P

a repeated typo is still a typo, I know the damn name I just have a hard time seeing it. My proofing skills are abysmal, my eyes just gloss over a lot of mistakes.

[Fourth Line Grind 0]

Thanks for the responses Fletch and Hockeyman, yea I've been doing some research + fooling around with the creative modes since I got it and can't put it down haha. Yea I'm going to pick up a 50mm lens asap. Thanks for all the help in this thread guys.

[Fletch 219]

If you can spring the extra $200 or so for the 50mm 1.4, I'd say go for it. It has much better build quality, goes down a stop further than the 1.8 (aka "Nifty Fifty") and is fairly sharp at 1.4 (though I'd say it's sweet spot is in the f/2.2-f/3.2 range). I have it and I like it a lot. What I REALLY want is the 50mm 1.2L but it is $1400 and almost impossible to find right now. For some reason a ton of the nice L lenses are backordered everywhere and no one seems to have a clear explanation as to why.

OH - one more thing - LEARN TO SHOOT IN MANUAL MODE. It may seem intimidating at first, but once you get the hang of it, you'll never go back :)

[Hockeyman11385 1]

The 50mm 1.2L is an amazing lens but costs a fortune. I had the nifty fifty and loved it. Unfortunately I dropped the camera and smashed the lens but it ended up saving the camera. For the price, you can't get much better than the nifty fifty but if you can step up I would go for the 1.4 as well.

Manual mode can be very intimidating but it is worth it. It gives you ultimate control of everything. The mode I use most is Av. It allows me to set the aperture and have the camera figure out the shutter speed.

Are you thinking of picking up any more lenses or accessories?

[Fletch 219]

Are you thinking of picking up any more lenses or accessories?

Me? Or the OP?

[Ahriman 1]

OH - one more thing - LEARN TO SHOOT IN MANUAL MODE. It may seem intimidating at first, but once you get the hang of it, you'll never go back :)

Um... learn the principles behind manual mode shooting, what all those numbers mean and how to use them as a tool to get the right shot; you dont need to mess with full manual for the vast majority of shots, Aperture or Shutter priority will be more than enough for all but extremely specific shots.

Saying you need to shoot full manual all the time is just epeen bragging.

[Too Old 1]

Actually there is more range of control if you learn to shoot manual, no doubt. The programmed modes are there for the majority of folks who are used to point-and-shoot cameras. Most modes have comprimises you must live with unless you shoot manual. Plus, learning how to shoot manual gives you a better understanding of what photography is all about.

[Ahriman 1]

Plus, learning how to shoot manual gives you a better understanding of what photography is all about.

Actually that was exactly what I was trying to say, but I should add that photography is really all about good framing as much as sound technical principles. However manual it is still completely unnecessary for the vast majority of shots. Unless something extremely specific is needed and/or you're being paid to take the picture, full manual mode is not required, shooting in RAW and tweaking settings afterward can go a lot quicker than adjusting every dial every shot.

[Hockeyman11385 1]

Plus, learning how to shoot manual gives you a better understanding of what photography is all about.

Both, I guess. I was asking more for the OP but it sounds like you have some sweet gear. What do you have all together?

Actually that was exactly what I was trying to say, but I should add that photography is really all about good framing as much as sound technical principles. However manual it is still completely unnecessary for the vast majority of shots. Unless something extremely specific is needed and/or you're being paid to take the picture, full manual mode is not required, shooting in RAW and tweaking settings afterward can go a lot quicker than adjusting every dial every shot.

I will admit to using Av most of the time but if you can get the hang of manual it will give you more options if you need a specific shot. Av is just easier. I would shoot in Av and Tv to get a feel for what the settings need to be if you have to use manual to get a good shot. I definitely agree that a lot of photography is in the framing and the angles but the best framing in the world is useless if the settings aren't right. You can get away with more if you get the settings right. I would learn settings first and then work on the framing. Shooting in RAW is a good tool but you'll end up being a better photographer if you don't have to do much tweaking after the fact. You always end up losing something if you have to do too much tweaking afterward, especially if the shot is underexposed.

[Ahriman 1]

In my experience you can expect to coax more out of an underexposed shot than a white washed overexposed photo, at least for a 4x6 print. :shrug:

And I dont want to nitpick because I'm not positive you were meaning to say it the way I read it but technically you dont lose anything with RAW being that it is as close to "lossless" files as you can get; if you vaguely get the shutter speed correct, a little time in Lightroom or Aperture or similar program will get you the shot you wanted to take.

Really to sum up though as far as actually SHOOTING photos, learn the basics of what Av and Tv settings allow you to do, shoot in RAW on the biggest (and multiple) memory cards as you can, and become confident in learning what's what for the next shoot so you can use the full manual mode if the situation requires it.

I stand by my advice for picking a lens as well. The 18-55 that comes packaged with the Rebel body is a decent all around starter, but a prime will get you better glass and allow more light in, getting you better shots without spending several hundred on a better than average performing all around zoom lens.

[Hockeyman11385 1]

The best "value" zoom out there will be the 70-200mm f4 L (non-IS). It doesn't let a lot of light in but it's incredibly sharp and takes wonderful pictures. Primes are nice but can be a bit limiting for obvious reasons.

I realize that RAW doesn't lose much but everything you change does have an effect on the quality of the photo. The better the picture out of the camera the better results you'll have after post processing. If you don't have to post process at all that means that you did an excellent job. It's always nice clicking on the "Auto" function of Photoshop's RAW processing program and not have anything change.

[maxamillion 3]

hockeyman that's some cool job you got there either way.

I was using my dad's old A-1 35mm for a while and that was fun, but the aperature was off on his lenses, maybe from sitting around? I don't know, but even at the highest settings bright shots wouldn't come out as well anymore. I want to pick up an XSi or something just to mess around with, but I don't have 500 bones to drop on a camera right now as a college student haha.

[Fletch 219]

OH - one more thing - LEARN TO SHOOT IN MANUAL MODE. It may seem intimidating at first, but once you get the hang of it, you'll never go back :)

Um... learn the principles behind manual mode shooting, what all those numbers mean and how to use them as a tool to get the right shot; you dont need to mess with full manual for the vast majority of shots, Aperture or Shutter priority will be more than enough for all but extremely specific shots.

Saying you need to shoot full manual all the time is just epeen bragging.

I don't know about you, but I don't shoot in anything but manual now - and I'm not bragging, just being honest. At least if I mess a shot up, I know it's me messing it up and not the camera.

To each their own...

Plus, learning how to shoot manual gives you a better understanding of what photography is all about.

Both, I guess. I was asking more for the OP but it sounds like you have some sweet gear. What do you have all together?

I have -

5D Mark II

30D

50mm 1.4 (my only lens for a couple more weeks, because I had to sell my 24-70mm L to get my 5DMkII)

Speedlite 430EX

I'm hoping to get the 24-70mm L again and the 85mm 1.8 shortly.

[Ahriman 1]

OH - one more thing - LEARN TO SHOOT IN MANUAL MODE. It may seem intimidating at first, but once you get the hang of it, you'll never go back :)

Um... learn the principles behind manual mode shooting, what all those numbers mean and how to use them as a tool to get the right shot; you dont need to mess with full manual for the vast majority of shots, Aperture or Shutter priority will be more than enough for all but extremely specific shots.

Saying you need to shoot full manual all the time is just epeen bragging.

I don't know about you, but I don't shoot in anything but manual now - and I'm not bragging, just being honest. At least if I mess a shot up, I know it's me messing it up and not the camera.

To each their own...

And most people don't have a camera in the two grand price range either. To each their own....

[Hockeyman11385 1]

I have -

5D Mark II

30D

50mm 1.4 (my only lens for a couple more weeks, because I had to sell my 24-70mm L to get my 5DMkII)

Speedlite 430EX

I'm hoping to get the 24-70mm L again and the 85mm 1.8 shortly.

That is some nice gear. Right now I'm working with a 40D, 24-105 F4 L, and a Speedlite 580EXII. I love the set up and would like to add an L telephoto.

hockeyman that's some cool job you got there either way.

I was using my dad's old A-1 35mm for a while and that was fun, but the aperature was off on his lenses, maybe from sitting around? I don't know, but even at the highest settings bright shots wouldn't come out as well anymore. I want to pick up an XSi or something just to mess around with, but I don't have 500 bones to drop on a camera right now as a college student haha.

Thanks, it is a blast.

The new cameras are great and the features you get even on the lowest end SLR are awesome. If you can swing it eventually it is a lot fun.

[jds 20]

I take photographs for a living and I spent three weeks in India shooting mostly in the av mode BUT with some exposure compensation dialed in. I knew when to adjust the auto and by how much by learing how to shoot on manual exposure cameras. You should challenge youself in manual so you understand just what the light meter in your camera is doing and then you can make the auto modes work like a charm once you understand the basics.

[larrivee 3]

Plus, learning how to shoot manual gives you a better understanding of what photography is all about.

Actually that was exactly what I was trying to say, but I should add that photography is really all about good framing as much as sound technical principles. However manual it is still completely unnecessary for the vast majority of shots. Unless something extremely specific is needed and/or you're being paid to take the picture, full manual mode is not required, shooting in RAW and tweaking settings afterward can go a lot quicker than adjusting every dial every shot.

RAW is only going to buy you a little extra dynamic range and exposure wiggle room. Get it right initially, then use the benefits of RAW to make it sing. If you shoot to keep full image data in your histogram (no clipping) you can maximize the advantages of RAW to enhance the image as opposed to just salvaging it.

Although aperture and shutter priority are great if you have to eliminate a variable, there are plenty of situations where manual is preferable- you don't have to dial in separate exposure compensation, so you can tweak exposure easier.

Really the only time I ever use priority modes are when I know I'll be dealing with quickly changing lighting conditions- a subject running through alternating shadow and light for example. Meters on the best of cameras get fooled, and an experienced eye will almost always win. Spot metering is fantastic once you get the hang of it- really accurate and teaches you to think of your images in terms of dynamic range.

The photo below was spot metered on the orbiter's side- I think it was 1/50th, f2.8, ISO 200. The matrix meter would probably blown out the shuttle to even out the whole scene- I would have corrected on the next shot, but why waste the time? I knew I wanted the Orbiter to be the correct density, even if the rest went a bit dark. I wanted it to pop!

[Ahriman 1]

Look, since probably reads like I'm belaboring this, I'll just say that this all started 3 pages ago as a discussion for a guy describing himself as a "newb" to SLRs. I say he, and most people, the majority of people who own cameras, will benefit more from taking a shot in Av or Tv than royally screwing something up in full manual mode because they had no understanding or not enough understanding of what every thing meant while setting up the shot. Not that people even want 'set up the shot' most of the time, all of those automatic modes exist on the Rebel and other entry level models for a reason.

I'm just trying to keep things down to a level of "good enough to get started" which was the intent of the thead's OP, where as, larrivee, I'm with you on that being a good shot and a good example use of full manual, really. You should sell that one as a print, I'd buy it; but the last two paragraphs are going to read as little more than total jargon to the OP :P

[Hockeyman11385 1]

I take photographs for a living and I spent three weeks in India shooting mostly in the av mode BUT with some exposure compensation dialed in. I knew when to adjust the auto and by how much by learing how to shoot on manual exposure cameras. You should challenge youself in manual so you understand just what the light meter in your camera is doing and then you can make the auto modes work like a charm once you understand the basics.

That's awesome that you got to go to India. I agree exactly with what you say here. Learning manual will make you more effective with all of the other modes.

Plus, learning how to shoot manual gives you a better understanding of what photography is all about.

Actually that was exactly what I was trying to say, but I should add that photography is really all about good framing as much as sound technical principles. However manual it is still completely unnecessary for the vast majority of shots. Unless something extremely specific is needed and/or you're being paid to take the picture, full manual mode is not required, shooting in RAW and tweaking settings afterward can go a lot quicker than adjusting every dial every shot.

RAW is only going to buy you a little extra dynamic range and exposure wiggle room. Get it right initially, then use the benefits of RAW to make it sing. If you shoot to keep full image data in your histogram (no clipping) you can maximize the advantages of RAW to enhance the image as opposed to just salvaging it.

Although aperture and shutter priority are great if you have to eliminate a variable, there are plenty of situations where manual is preferable- you don't have to dial in separate exposure compensation, so you can tweak exposure easier.

Really the only time I ever use priority modes are when I know I'll be dealing with quickly changing lighting conditions- a subject running through alternating shadow and light for example. Meters on the best of cameras get fooled, and an experienced eye will almost always win. Spot metering is fantastic once you get the hang of it- really accurate and teaches you to think of your images in terms of dynamic range.

The photo below was spot metered on the orbiter's side- I think it was 1/50th, f2.8, ISO 200. The matrix meter would probably blown out the shuttle to even out the whole scene- I would have corrected on the next shot, but why waste the time? I knew I wanted the Orbiter to be the correct density, even if the rest went a bit dark. I wanted it to pop!

***SHUTTLE PIC***

Beautiful shot and beautifully said. I am still working on getting the hang of spot metering because it seems to get better results for what I'm shooting. Cars are especially tricky due to all of the reflections.

[Fletch 219]

And most people don't have a camera in the two grand price range either. To each their own....

....Aaaaaannnd even entry-level DSLR's allow for shooting in manual mode. "To each their own."

Oh, and awesome shot, Larrivee!

[jds 20]

Nice shot indeed. Again, with a spot meter you are still dealing with a reflective meter which is what every camera uses. A reflective meter tries to make everything 18% gray in terms of exposure. If you point a reflective meter at a white wall it will give you a setting that will make the wall turn out grey. Same thing for a black wall. For the white wall you would actually have to open up two stops from the meter reading to make it white (white is two stops lighter than 18% grey) and close two stops to make the wall black (black is two stops darker than 18%)in that case which sort of seems counterintuative. If you don't understand how the meter responds you won't know how to adjust the settings or know when the meter is being fooled. Knowing that the matirix meter would read all the dark information and blow out the details in the shuttle means that there is some understanding of how a camera meter works. Again, the more knowledge you have the better your results. Still, the auto modes now can easily get anyone started but I am just suggesting that any beginning photographer learn to use manual so auto doesn't become a crutch.

[Fourth Line Grind 0]

Damn, haha I wish I understood more than about 15% of what you guys are discussing! Hopefully I'll catch on eventually. As far as upgrades go, I'm probably going to stick with my EF-S 18-55mm IS lens until I get better at taking pictures and can afford a Canon L lens. Again, thanks for the insight all.

[Too Old 1]

Even my entry-level Nikon D40x has a manual mode with endless adjustment possibilities. The camera body does all I need it to do and if I want nicer stuff it'll be spent on more lenses down the road. I could care less about it not being able to shoot HD video like they all want to push now in DSLR's.

[Hockeyman11385 1]

Even my entry-level Nikon D40x has a manual mode with endless adjustment possibilities. The camera body does all I need it to do and if I want nicer stuff it'll be spent on more lenses down the road. I could care less about it not being able to shoot HD video like they all want to push now in DSLR's.

I agree. The latest push towards video is stupid. I have a Canon HV20 if I want to shoot perfect 1080i HD all day long. I can't imagine it's good for the sensor either, although they're probably built for it now.