Beginner skater with high end skates

[Bear 0]

I am a beginning skater, 39 years old, 5’3, 182 lbs (fluctuate between 160 to 185lbs). To date I’ve had about ten lessons (1/2 hr each) and ten hours of practice time on the ice.

I went to a LHS for my first pair of skates. I chose Nike Bauer Vapor XXII’s for the price and because they felt better than any of the other skates I tried on in that price range. However, the employee that helped me that day sized me wrong and I ended up with too large a skate. After realizing something was wrong on the ice I eventually went back and another employee determined I was in the 5 Jr range, not the 6 Sr that I had initially been given.

Since the shop now had a sale going on the NB Vapor XXXX Jr he suggested I try it on. He stated that I’d end up with a better quality skate, and since I’d be using it for learning and no more than developmental/rec league hockey later on, the XXXX’s would last me a long time. The XXXX size 5 Jr fit great, and I now had a much better idea of what a proper fit should feel like. Since the price of the XXII Sr and XXXX Jr was now the same and the new fit felt good, I exchanged the XXII’s for the XXXX’s.

Now I’m wondering if I have too much skate. I love the fit of the XXXX. The heel lock and ankle support are excellent. I could tell the difference the correct size made on the ice immediately. However, I’ve been told that I don’t bend my knees enough. My stride is also short and choppy. I know some of this is simply because I’m still very much a beginner. Then again, could it also be a forward flex issue? Its not that I can’t bend my knees in the skates at all. I can easily dip enough so that I can’t see my toes under my knees, but when I try to do a deep knee bend my heels start to rise up from the ice (the whole skate, not my heel inside the boot).

Would it be beneficial to pick up a low end skate for the learning process, and then move back into my XXXX’s when I’m more steady on my feet? How much of a breakdown might I expect from something like the Bauer X:15, NB Vapor XXII or XVI at my height and weight while doing lessons/rec skating 2-3 hours a week at most? If I’m going to pick up low end skates at this point I don’t want to spend more than $80-90, seeing as how I wouldn’t be using them for more than a year or two at the most.

Or should I stick with the XXXX’s and try not lacing the top eyelet (gaining forward flex but losing some ankle support) and just wait for my skating to improve as time goes on?

[jsmart 0]

Welcome!

Sounds like you're making a great start. Lace the skates up all the way, don't develop any bad habits.

Skate on the 40s, no need for a cheap pair of skates if the 40s fit well (and didn't break the bank). Some of us search a lifetime for skates that fit well.

Your skating (stance, stride, balance, ect.) will improve dramatically over a short period of time and you will want all the features the 40s have to offer. Good luck!

Just an FYI but you may want to keep the posts a little shorter a lot of folks won't read the whole thing (most of us have ADD... ;) )

[jds 20]

I was in the same boat a while back (43 learning to skate) and bought a pair of One90's. I had a hard time getting used to them and it felt like any progress I had made on my old skates was lost but that was because the One90's were so damn stiff and designed for hard use by strong skaters which I was not. Now a year later after tons of skating they feel absolutely great. I think if you give those XXXX's lots of use they will break in as your skills improve and you will be left with a great working skate that should last you for years.

[sickwilly 37]

I say keep 'em!

You can experiment a little with how tightly you tie them, too.

[duch 0]

In my opinion it would probably be beneficial to go to a middle of the line skate and learn in them but don't buy a lower end skate,( there is just not enough ankle support) and you'll notice a dramatic difference when you put on you XXXX's again. Your XXII's where probably the perfect level to learn with. I would have recommended the XVI's or the XXII's as a perfect level of skate to start in and then you could moved up to the XXXX's later as your skills improved. The decision is up to you basically. If your budget allows pick up another pair of skates go with the XVI's which are probably a little cheaper than the XXII's and learn in them. Once you have your stride and manoeverability down well you can go up to the XXXX's again. If you can't afford to buy another pair then I guess you'll just have to tough it out with the XXXX's. ( poor you!) Either way I would recommend you try to get into a lot of pickup hockey or shinny games at your local arena. My skating skills improved dramatically by doing this, because it mimics game conditions you face in a real hockey game. Welcome to the fold guy and remember to stick with it, the skills will come but it takes time, you need to be patient. Try to get on your skates as much as you can, the more you are on them the better you'll get. Practice makes perfect.

[Jarick 5]

I don't know if junior skates are made softer than senior skates...if they are, pick up the XXXX's because they're on clearance and you can get them for cheaper than second tier skates new. If they're as stiff as senior models, you could go with the XXV's as they're a bit softer since you're not big and heavy. You save a ton of cash if you have little feet.

[Jordan 13]

First, the junior skates are softer than the senior skates, so I don't see a problem with you using them at your weight...FYI my 9 year old does very well in jr. XXXXs. He is a very strong skater, but he only weighs about 75 pounds.

Second. If you are having difficulty flexing your knees, it is most likely due to being unable to flex your ankles enough, combined with the upright stance of the XXXXs (something they changed in the X:60s). There are a couple thing that you can do to improve this situation

• you can tie the tops of your skates looser. Often newer skaters prefer their skates really tight in search of support.
  
• you can remove the laces from the top eyelets. This will allow you to flex your ankles more and still tie the skates tightly.
  
• if you want something in between tying all the way up and skipping the top eyelet, you can try skipping the second last set of eyelets and using the top set. This will increase the flex somewhat.
  
• you can take the laces out through the second highest eyelets and put the lace through the top eyelet, outside in. This will make a loop on the outside of the eyelets. You then lace to the loop you have made on the opposite side, and tie your skates after that. This will move the knot lower than the top eyelets allow, and higher than skipping the top eyelets. It is often called lock lacing. you can see it here:
  

Ian's Lacing site

• have your skates profiled to a more forward pitch...this will make it easier to get your knees out in front and over your toes..which is the goal !
  

One of these, or a combination of these will do the trick, no need to get different skates.

Good luck!

[Croco 0]

I'm pretty much in the same predicament myself...just turned 26 and learning to properly skate on a pair of Vapor XVIs. However, I've got my eyes set on a pair of Supreme One75s once I am more comfortable on the ice, though is that such a big jump from what Bear had? (XXII to XXXX)

I'm starting to think that a stiffer boot would be of benefit to me as my instructor noticed that my ankles were flexing too much. He suggested wrapping my laces around the back to make them tighter around my ankles, but last week I tried wrapping a strip of clear tape around the ankles and that worked a lot better. But that's with the XVIs and if I move up to the One75, does anyone think that I should keep on taping my skates?

[SolarWind 23]

Lace the skates up all the way, don't develop any bad habits.

I would definitely not venure to calling this 'a bad habit'!

lacing has been discussed multiple times & it's just a personal preference - that's all.

I used to lace skates all the way up, but when I got One95 last fall I started skipping the top eyelet & it gave me a lot more forward flex which I welcomed in that partocular skate @ my particular state of development. This doesn't mean this is the way to go (or NOT to go as you're implying) for everyone sicne there're just too many variables - the skate used, skating style, skill/strength level etc

[Chadd 916]

I strongly suggest skating in those skates with the top eyelet unlaced. Develop some strength in the ankle and it will benefit you in the long run.

[K9 Unit 1]

hockey equipments all about personal preference...you gotta experiment a lil, try what everybody suggested and choose the one that feels the best

[Bear 0]

Thanks for all the advice, and sorry if I rambled on too much in my original post (it was the end of a long day, ya know?) Anyway, I think I'll experiment with the lacing suggestions to start off with, and try to be more patient with my progress. Coming into skating and hockey late makes me feel like I have so much ground to make up, especially when I see people with skills that make it look like they popped out of the womb and hit the ice with skates already on their feet.

Like I said, the fit and feel of the skates I have are great, and I thought they were a great deal at $200. If a lot more practice and a little adjustment don't do the job I can always think about different skates and other possible solutions later.

[sds 0]

I have wondered about this lately.

Is the supposedly forward flex of a boot really operable these days? Top end boot are SOOOO stiff, it is hard to imagine anyone's flesh actually flexing those boots forward. I can barely squeeze my One95's together at the ankle let alone cause the boot to flex forward.

So, is the idea of forward flex really a thing of the past? Are the boots constructed so differently these days that unlacing the top eyelet is just the way you should roll from now on?

[Ahriman 1]

its not a rule, its how you feel in them. I never skipped an eyelet in any bauer or CCM skate I had growing up, didn't skip in the U+ skate, but when traded for some One95s I had to even after a few hours on the ice. Maybe in another month I'll go back and try lacing all the way again

[chk hrd 164]

I have wondered about this lately.

Is the supposedly forward flex of a boot really operable these days? Top end boot are SOOOO stiff, it is hard to imagine anyone's flesh actually flexing those boots forward. I can barely squeeze my One95's together at the ankle let alone cause the boot to flex forward.

So, is the idea of forward flex really a thing of the past? Are the boots constructed so differently these days that unlacing the top eyelet is just the way you should roll from now on?

I think the idea is about using stored energy. The more force you apply to flexing a boot the more energy is transferred and stored in the boot itself. The release of energy is then transfered from the boot to the blade/ice for more speed. The better you flex the boot the more energy is transfered to the ice for more speed/power. If you are not flexing the boot the energy you are using has to go somewhere, which would be part into the blade, part back into you. The same goes into turning, if you do not commit to a turn and put the weight into it you do not turn as well.

In my opinion I think that is why a stronger skater with good skating technique gets better performance out of a stiff boot than a beginner, they are maximizing the boots design and performance. I have always felt that a new skater should have a medium skate with more flex. Once they learn PROPPER technique, develop a good stride and get comfortable on skates and skating then they can move up to the higher end skate.

I capitalized propper because going to stick and puck or public skating with someone telling you what to do isn't what I consider learning propperly. Yes you will learn to skate (eventually) but you will also build bad habits. If you are serious about playing, take some lessons, you won't regret it. can a new skater skate in high end skates; yes. Do they get any bennefit out of it; no. Will the high end skates last; at that level no better than medium level skate.

Just my opinion.

[1stLiner91 0]

I have wondered about this lately.

Is the supposedly forward flex of a boot really operable these days? Top end boot are SOOOO stiff, it is hard to imagine anyone's flesh actually flexing those boots forward. I can barely squeeze my One95's together at the ankle let alone cause the boot to flex forward.

So, is the idea of forward flex really a thing of the past? Are the boots constructed so differently these days that unlacing the top eyelet is just the way you should roll from now on?

squeezing the ankles together? i don't think thats how you would flex forward... unless i'm not understanding what you've said.

my one95's have perfect forward flex with all the eyelets done...

[sds 0]

I think the idea is about using stored energy. The more force you apply to flexing a boot the more energy is transferred and stored in the boot itself. The release of energy is then transfered from the boot to the blade/ice for more speed. The better you flex the boot the more energy is transfered to the ice for more speed/power. If you are not flexing the boot the energy you are using has to go somewhere, which would be part into the blade, part back into you. The same goes into turning, if you do not commit to a turn and put the weight into it you do not turn as well.

In my opinion I think that is why a stronger skater with good skating technique gets better performance out of a stiff boot than a beginner, they are maximizing the boots design and performance. I have always felt that a new skater should have a medium skate with more flex. Once they learn PROPPER technique, develop a good stride and get comfortable on skates and skating then they can move up to the higher end skate.

I capitalized propper because going to stick and puck or public skating with someone telling you what to do isn't what I consider learning propperly. Yes you will learn to skate (eventually) but you will also build bad habits. If you are serious about playing, take some lessons, you won't regret it. can a new skater skate in high end skates; yes. Do they get any bennefit out of it; no. Will the high end skates last; at that level no better than medium level skate.

Just my opinion.

yeah, yeah... I get all that.

My point is that my One95s (and my former 9ks) are soooo stiff, that it is hard for me to believe that anyone actually flexes this boot forward in the traditional sense.

squeezing the ankles together? i don't think thats how you would flex forward... unless i'm not understanding what you've said.

my one95's have perfect forward flex with all the eyelets done...

you're not understanding. I compared the two movements, not equated them.

[chk hrd 164]

yeah, yeah... I get all that.

My point is that my One95s (and my former 9ks) are soooo stiff, that it is hard for me to believe that anyone actually flexes this boot forward in the traditional sense.

because it's not flexing the boot as you normally think, it is loading the boot with energy (for lack of a better word), similar to loading a stick. Even though the boot doesn't visually flex alot energy is still being loaded into it. What ever is loaded in has to come out (action/reaction). With a less stiff boot you are not storing as much energy in the boot. That is the basis of Easton's Coil technology

[sds 0]

yeah, yeah... I get all that.

My point is that my One95s (and my former 9ks) are soooo stiff, that it is hard for me to believe that anyone actually flexes this boot forward in the traditional sense.

because it's not flexing the boot as you normally think, it is loading the boot with energy (for lack of a better word), similar to loading a stick. Even though the boot doesn't visually flex alot energy is still being loaded into it. What ever is loaded in has to come out (action/reaction). With a less stiff boot you are not storing as much energy in the boot. That is the basis of Easton's Coil technology

Although I see what you wrote, something isn't right. It sounds like you are describing your typical physics spring problem. However, for that spring to store energy it has to move. For a boot to store energy it has to move.

I'm not super big. Only 163 lbs. I'm sitting here with my laces tied to the top on my One95's and if I try to flex my boot forward - the only thing I accomplish is bruising my ankle. I'm putting all my weight into this and the only thing that moves slightly is my laces.

I just don't see how anyone can flex this boot while skating, no matter your size or weight because that top lace is going to kill your ankle.

What am I missing here?

[chilimax21 0]

Yeah my one95 is super stiff, but if I wanted to I can feel my boot flex slightly if I bend my knees very hard. I'm only 155lb. Normal skating, I can't really flex it. But now I understand the spring loading. BTW, my ankles hurt also in certain areas, but my bunga pad relieve some of the pain. I guess on a lower end skate, if you were to do that, you would crease the boot, since it wouldn't be as stiff.

[sds 0]

Yeah my one95 is super stiff, but if I wanted to I can feel my boot flex slightly if I bend my knees very hard. I'm only 155lb. Normal skating, I can't really flex it. But now I understand the spring loading. BTW, my ankles hurt also in certain areas, but my bunga pad relieve some of the pain. I guess on a lower end skate, if you were to do that, you would crease the boot, since it wouldn't be as stiff.

my skates RIP up the outsides of my ankles almost where the top of the boot ends. I think it is the composite material inside the boot padding that rubs. I also wear Bunga pads...

[automorph 0]

all that complain from one95's hurting their feet, has to be wrong skate for your feet not the stiffness.....

I weigh 135 and after couple weeks these skates are super comfortable and definitely feel a more powerful stride....

I tried going back to my one75's and they felt like they werent even laced up...your legs definitely adapt to stiffness

[Ahriman 1]

yeah, yeah... I get all that.

My point is that my One95s (and my former 9ks) are soooo stiff, that it is hard for me to believe that anyone actually flexes this boot forward in the traditional sense.

because it's not flexing the boot as you normally think, it is loading the boot with energy (for lack of a better word), similar to loading a stick. Even though the boot doesn't visually flex alot energy is still being loaded into it. What ever is loaded in has to come out (action/reaction). With a less stiff boot you are not storing as much energy in the boot. That is the basis of Easton's Coil technology

Although I see what you wrote, something isn't right. It sounds like you are describing your typical physics spring problem. However, for that spring to store energy it has to move. For a boot to store energy it has to move.

Its more like a pillow than a spring. You push, the boot doesn't flex, you're foot moves with the entire force/movement of your foot. If it's a squishy skate: you move your foot, the boot flexes and takes up some of the movement that otherwise would be transferred into blade movement.