Should we care if they care?

[Neo5370 132]

Has anyone here ever taken a job because they needed it? Taken a paycheck doing something they didn't really care about because they had financial needs, family, friends, or even dreams to take care of and achieve? Are these people jerks? Hardly. If you had some god given talent for ditch digging or fence building and someone was willing to pay you millions to do it even though you couldn't care less about digging or fences, would you do it?

Do they have some special responsibility to complete strangers just because they are good at a game?

I'm guessing that's the case for some pro athletes. What's that infamous quote? "I don't like hockey, I'm just good at it?"

From a societal point of view why do we feel athletes owe us their souls? Guys that have all the talent in the world bring joy into our lives with a great dangle, pass, or goal. Who cares why they're doing it? Are we projecting our own childhood hopes and dreams onto these demi-gods only to become disenchanted when they show us their flaws? I believe we idolize them because we put them on an unrealistic pedestal. If we want to be more like our heroes, we can make that happen by realizing they are showing us their most human characteristic when they make mistakes, play badly or "take a night off" because just like everyone else on earth they are being imperfect.

[Master P 0]

Good question. I think it boils down to celebrity status and media coverage. Our culture puts value on being famous. For example how many people die of cancer? Do they get headline news like Farrah Fawcett? Celebrity status falsely makes individual's life, views, and opinions more important than us ordinary people. Athletes are forced into being a role model.

[kovyperron5727 0]

Good posts by both of you, really gets you thinking. I think some of it has to do with money, like in our society people put such an emphasis on much someone makes. For many that is the barometer to determing how successful someone is. In pro sports, I think that some people get pissed when guys play poorly or have off games because people pay to see them, and they want to get the most for their money. Is it fair? No. However though, IMO, to be successful at whatever you do you need to have a passion for it. Sure there are people that don't, example being that quote by Brett Hull that the OP referred to, but having that feeling of self satisfaction is what is most important in life.

Personally I don't care if a player likes his job. But if he is on my team, I want him to help us win whether he likes his job or not.

[eric42434224 1]

Right. Reminds me of something I saw recently. I think it was an interview with Brian Burke of HSL? In part of the interview he was talking about the players, and he said something to the effect of "It's WORK". I think many fans lose some perspective and dont think about that. it is a job, and a very demanding one with intense pressure. it isnt just a "game" anymore. I am absolutely sure that some, or alot, of the innocent and pure passion and love of the game gets tainted when you are a pro.

Do you think Geddy, Alex, and Niel get goosebumps when they play Tom Sawyer for the 35,000 time? It is more like another day at the office.

I cant imagine how the pressures of being a pro athelete must dim the passion for the game.

[Master P 0]

Right. Reminds me of something I saw recently. I think it was an interview with Brian Burke of HSL? In part of the interview he was talking about the players, and he said something to the effect of "It's WORK"

I saw an interview with Rod Brind'amour. They were asking him about his well known fitness habits. He commented it was his job. I'm paraphrasing but he said people go to work everyday whether its being a plumber or an office worker. It's his job, no big deal. I thought that was a nice answer.

[kosydar 0]

I think KP is right on track. The reason that we care so much about them and their performance is because we are the ones writing their checks. If we weren't watching and we didn't care, we wouldn't buy tickets to games. Companies wouldn't sponsor teams. Teams would have no money, players wouldn't get paid. Fans have every right to be pissed when a player plays poorly. It is a job, and while us fans aren't the boss, we are the audience. If it wasn't for us mediocre players like Scott Gomez wouldn't get paid $7 million a year. Its a slippery slope though. As a Leafs fan, I hate the fact that Finger gets paid $3.5 million. I think he is a good player, just drastically overpaid. But in the same breath, can you really blame him for signing that contract?

[crispy92 14]

I cant imagine how the pressures of being a pro athelete must dim the passion for the game.

I believe its all about how each person handles this pressure. When you watch Ovechkin play you can tell how well he handles pressure. Very rarely does he let pressure get to him. And in turn when he plays he plays with passion because he loves the sports as a game, not a job.

On another note look at people in the MLL (major league lacrosse). These mens salaries are nothing. They dont even make enough money to live off of the sport, most have second jobs unless they have a sponsorship deals. people leave the league due to travel issues and financial trouble. Most teams barely attract 5000+ fans or so and thats in the hotbed areas were its one of the most popular sports. For those of you who have never seen pro lacrosse, its brutal. Massive defenseman wailing on your arm with a huge metal pole for hours, waiting to lay a massive hit any chance they get. So why do these people play, because they love the sport. They dont need fans to make their life go round. To them fans are intangibles. I mean sure if there are no fans there is no league but i mean,if the mll shutdown today, atleast %80 of those players would go out and find a league to play in. even though they would pay to play instead of get payed to play. This is my ideal type of athlete. Someone who could give two shits about salary, fans and all the fame. Someone who will train and play just as hard as the people whos "job" it is to train and play.

[Law Goalie 147]

Being fit for and good at hockey is the job. The game itself is something else entirely.

The level of excitement a competitive athlete reaches is way beyond that of any other profession. This coming from a guy who once screamed like a little girl when he found a song about Agincourt in a 16th century play about Robin Hood.

[Rustyhole 1]

Our culture puts value on being famous.

nothing else matters

edit: Often, our culture puts a higher value on being famous than other, more worthy attributes.

[Ahriman 1]

I cant imagine how the pressures of being a pro athelete must dim the passion for the game.

I believe its all about how each person handles this pressure. When you watch Ovechkin play you can tell how well he handles pressure. Very rarely does he let pressure get to him. And in turn when he plays he plays with passion because he loves the sports as a game, not a job.

On another note look at people in the MLL (major league lacrosse). These mens salaries are nothing. They dont even make enough money to live off of the sport, most have second jobs unless they have a sponsorship deals. people leave the league due to travel issues and financial trouble. Most teams barely attract 5000+ fans or so and thats in the hotbed areas were its one of the most popular sports. For those of you who have never seen pro lacrosse, its brutal. Massive defenseman wailing on your arm with a huge metal pole for hours, waiting to lay a massive hit any chance they get. So why do these people play, because they love the sport. They dont need fans to make their life go round. To them fans are intangibles. I mean sure if there are no fans there is no league but i mean,if the mll shutdown today, atleast %80 of those players would go out and find a league to play in. even though they would pay to play instead of get payed to play. This is my ideal type of athlete. Someone who could give two shits about salary, fans and all the fame. Someone who will train and play just as hard as the people whos "job" it is to train and play.

Some people have jobs. Other people have careers. Wake up every morning and thank god if you have one of the latter.

[kovyperron5727 0]

I cant imagine how the pressures of being a pro athelete must dim the passion for the game.

On another note look at people in the MLL (major league lacrosse). These mens salaries are nothing. They dont even make enough money to live off of the sport, most have second jobs unless they have a sponsorship deals. people leave the league due to travel issues and financial trouble. Most teams barely attract 5000+ fans or so and thats in the hotbed areas were its one of the most popular sports. For those of you who have never seen pro lacrosse, its brutal. Massive defenseman wailing on your arm with a huge metal pole for hours, waiting to lay a massive hit any chance they get. So why do these people play, because they love the sport. They dont need fans to make their life go round. To them fans are intangibles. I mean sure if there are no fans there is no league but i mean,if the mll shutdown today, atleast %80 of those players would go out and find a league to play in. even though they would pay to play instead of get payed to play. This is my ideal type of athlete. Someone who could give two shits about salary, fans and all the fame. Someone who will train and play just as hard as the people whos "job" it is to train and play.

I agree completely with this post, it describes me personally as a hockey player. My dream in life is to just play pro, don't care if its a crappy league or if I barely make anything. Just being able to get paid to do what you love is the best.

I didn't know that MLL was like that. Being the top league and all I thought they'd make a lot more and have more fans.

[K9 Unit 1]

Our culture puts value on being famous.

nothing else matters

edit: Often, our culture puts a higher value on being famous than other, more worthy attributes.

agreed...money and famous goes hand in hand nowadays

[eric42434224 1]

I certainly wasnt saying that professional atheletes didnt enjoy their sport. Just that it seems inevitable that some of the pure innocent passion is diminished (obviously to varying degrees) when it becomes a job with intense pressures. When I was a kid, the love of heavy metal music was pure....I dreamed of being able to play it in a band. Yet when I was in college in a band, playing essentially the same songs every night for a paycheck, my feelings definitely were a bit more jaded.

[adam14 182]

I agree with what most of you have posted. About the pressure to perform and get paid. But in my opinion, if somebody is only playing for the paychek than they are not real athletes. You should play the sport because you love it. If you are good at it, that's a plus. That's the case with most of the players in the NHL. Look at ovechkin, sure he has a big ass contract but that doesn't stop him from having fun with the game.

My dad once said to me, that the minute training and playing feels like work, then you have lost your passion for the game. And this is from a guy that played pro in europe, ohl, for the university of guelph and coaches pro.

[WSjo22 1]

I agree with what most of you have posted. About the pressure to perform and get paid. But in my opinion, if somebody is only playing for the paychek than they are not real athletes. You should play the sport because you love it. If you are good at it, that's a plus. That's the case with most of the players in the NHL. Look at ovechkin, sure he has a big ass contract but that doesn't stop him from having fun with the game.

My dad once said to me, that the minute training and playing feels like work, then you have lost your passion for the game. And this is from a guy that played pro in europe, ohl, for the university of guelph and coaches pro.

Exactly, this is what happened to me with football.... I quit hockey for football because it was what my parents and I thought it was what I could go the furthest at..... I used to love it, never missed a work out first one in the gym last one out, and watched film on my own before and after practice... Got to college and I lost the passion for the game because I wasn't playing for fun anymore. I was playing to keep my scholarship and playing to win to get bowl invites and sponsorships for the school and such. When you get to that lever what you do on the field affects the coaches and plays a part in whether they keep their job or not and it finally caught up to me. I lasted two years before I gave up my scholarship and quit because it became a job and thats not why I loved the game, the things I used to do to be the best I could be became something I couldn't stand to do once money became involved.... The good thing about going through all of this is I rekindled my first love of sport Hockey and I've skated almost every day since I quit football and I'd rather pay $5 a day to skate every single day than get paid to step on a football field

[dsjunior1388 81]

I've kind of been working on a theory of why professional sports matter to fans. Basically my line of thinking is that we are drawn to a sense of loyalty and pride in the things we associate ourselves with. I identify myself with the State of Michigan, and the city of Detroit and it's sports teams. In a way, deep down, I saw Steve Yzerman as carrying a flag for me, defending the things I held dear in battle against others in different cities. In a wierd way, we need to try and feel supremacy over what are basically our equals, and professional sports is an outlet of that oftentimes.

So as a kid when I heard stories about Al Kaline or Joe Dumars, or watched Yzerman fight through ridiculous injuries with my cities name on his chest, I could never look at Bobby Higginson the same way. Yzerman took the city of Detroit to great heights, as far as our own pride and sense of accomplishment in things we generallly had no impact on. Higginson, on the other hand, failed us. I can imagine how fans feel when a Vince Carter or Alex Kovalev does not do as well in the playoffs, and why they see it as a personal slight.

It all comes down to our natural draw to a sense of community, and a thirst for competition, recognition, and supremacy. We put this responsibility on people who can best represent it, whether it's Jeff Daniels, who is from my hometown of Chelsea MI, and a former student at CMU, where I also attend, or Ryan Kesler and Mike Modano, who each grew up just a few miles from my grandparents home in Livonia MI. We also bring in Mercenaries to fight for our own pride. Luckily for Cleveland, we have decided to do so in a much more civil matter than the way ancient Athenians and Spartans did, because if we tried to sack Cleveland, it would have an olde english D on top of it in three hours. :lol:

Maybe it's stupid. But it's buried deep down in human nature and most of us have come to identify with it.

[eric42434224 1]

I agree with what most of you have posted. About the pressure to perform and get paid. But in my opinion, if somebody is only playing for the paychek than they are not real athletes. You should play the sport because you love it. If you are good at it, that's a plus. That's the case with most of the players in the NHL. Look at ovechkin, sure he has a big ass contract but that doesn't stop him from having fun with the game.

My dad once said to me, that the minute training and playing feels like work, then you have lost your passion for the game. And this is from a guy that played pro in europe, ohl, for the university of guelph and coaches pro.

It would be my bet that 99.99% of all players in the NHL, each to certain varying degrees, do feel that it is work, and each to varying degrees feel they are playing fto make a living. To what degree depends on the player and the situation. I also believe that all of them have passion for the game. It isnt "an all or none" scenario. You can feel like it is work, and you can play for a paycheck, and still have great passion for the game. They are not mutually exclusive. Interesting how players (from all pro sports) somehow seem to play harder in a contract year. They also dont seem to jump for joy when dryland training. It is a matter of degrees. When adding in the responsibilites of making a living in a very high pressure profession, it is inevitable not to have that affect your views and actions to at least a certain degree.

[Neal 41]

Jason Bourne had an interesting post on one of his blogs about how only 4 players on a professional team actually get to play the game. The best players are still playing and having fun, the rest of the team has a job to do making the safe play and being responsible defensively at all costs, including being creative and having fun.

I can't link to the exact blog post, but he put it up on March 3rd 2009 here: http://www.jtbourne.com

"At the same time, “playing” changes to “working” when you start earning that paycheck. Out of every 20-man line-up, there are probably four guys “playing hockey” and 16 others working. If you aren’t Sidney Crosby or one of the other ridiculously talented, you better get that puck in deep when you’re over the red line. You better block that shot. You better win that d-zone face-off. "

[Master P 0]

I think Alex Daigle admitted he didn't really like to play hockey. He was good at it and it provided him a job.

[kovyperron5727 0]

I think Alex Daigle admitted he didn't really like to play hockey. He was good at it and it provided him a job.

I was about to mention him too. Good call man. The fact that he didn't have the passion for the game is why he didn't suceed the first time around. The fact that a guy like David Perron does have enourmous passion for the game is why he went from house to the show in 3 years. It doesn't matter where your at or how good you are, if hockey is just "a job" then you will never be as good as you can be.

Alex Daigle has a happy ending though, he refound his passion for the game after sitting out a few years and is still playing in Europe. Good for him.

[eric42434224 1]

I think Alex Daigle admitted he didn't really like to play hockey. He was good at it and it provided him a job.

I was about to mention him too. Good call man. The fact that he didn't have the passion for the game is why he didn't suceed the first time around. The fact that a guy like David Perron does have enourmous passion for the game is why he went from house to the show in 3 years. It doesn't matter where your at or how good you are, if hockey is just "a job" then you will never be as good as you can be.

Alex Daigle has a happy ending though, he refound his passion for the game after sitting out a few years and is still playing in Europe. Good for him.

I think that people need to stop thinking that you cant do both. You can have immense passion for the game, and to varying degrees treat it as a job. It is extremely unlikely it is only one or the other. I dont think someone thinking, to a certain degree, that hockey is a job, cant be as good as if he didnt. There may be some validity in the view that some players wouldnt be as good as they are if they didnt think of it, to a certain degree, as a job. Some may have a greater work ethic knowing it is a job, and may never have reached that level if it were just a game to them. IMO, I dont think that any NHLer doesnt think of hockey, even if just a little bit, as a job.

[adam14 182]

Not so much thinking it was a job as not having passion for the game because of the money.

[JJ Thompson94 0]

"At the same time, “playing” changes to “working” when you start earning that paycheck. Out of every 20-man line-up, there are probably four guys “playing hockey” and 16 others working. If you aren’t Sidney Crosby or one of the other ridiculously talented, you better get that puck in deep when you’re over the red line. You better block that shot. You better win that d-zone face-off. "

I would totally agree with that. A large majority of these guys never had a real job where they weren't playing hockey. For 16 guys not only their "games" become a job, but just their overall lifestyle is a job. A bunch of guys play in a city they don't really consider home, which their family and friends are not around. Not to mention half the year they are on the road anyway. Their lives become very structured where it's wake up, morning skate, bite to eat, back to the apt to nap, to the game, back to the apt. wake up, practice, fly to city, get drink with guys, wake up, morning skate, etc. It becomes pretty mundane.

Since they never held a real job, they don't realize how lucky they are to play hockey for a living. I can see how they can see it as a job. They still may like the sport and thrive of simple competition playing hockey for a championship. But enjoying what you do and considering what you do a job are not mutually exclusive.