Who cares about winning

[Neo5370 132]

Remember in the Bronx Tale when chaz palminteri's characters asks the kid if he thinks micky mantle give's a crap about him?

I want to see if anyone agrees with me in that there are sports fans, in my case a hockey fan, versus "team fans". I live in "red sox" nation and the general red sox "fan" personifies this personality to a T.

He or she has minimal knowledge of baseball, can't name more than the star players on any given roster if that, hasn't played an inning of competitive or even organized rec baseball, yet they have all the memoribilia, make fun of non-red sox fans, all in all act like the world is going to end when the sox lose, have no sense of sportsmanship, flip over cars, basically act like monkeys. It's obnoxious.

To a lesser degree I see it in hockey too, particularly during the playoffs. I went to a B's vs. Habs playoff game and because of the way fans behaved I vowed never to go to another game that has that kind of intensity because good, everyday working people were throwing beer at each other, taunting other people's wives, getting into fist fights. These my fellow msh'er's are not hockey fans.

When I watch a game, I couldn't care less who wins. I just want to see the game well played. I want to see creative offensive, dedicated/smart defense, and flashes of talent whether it be from the home team, away team, the franchise player or the 4th line call-up. I enjoy watching pro, semi pro, college, high-school, heck even some rec league games are fun to watch because every beer league has a guy or kid that you swear could play some level of pro . When you only watch the professional level, local favorite/bandwagon version of a sport, and cannot relate to how hard it is to to make a great play you are not a fan.

I can't stand the "home team" bias. It's not logical. People that pin their hopes on the local team or star athlete are doing so not out of love for the sport. They don't love football, they love tom brady. They don't love hockey, they love sid the kid or ovechkin.

Jerry Seinfeld had a good assessment as well. People root for the laundry. What if the entire roster of someone's beloved team was traded away, and replaced by some hated rivals. Would you root for them because of the jersey on their backs? If I may be so bold, these people make me sick.

P.S. Sorry if that sounded bitter. I'm just tired of people thinking hockey fans as glass thumping neanderthals. And tired of ignorant band-wagoners. If only people knew that one of the greatest hockey players ever was about 5-11, 165lbs or that finesse is valued more than fists, then maybe hockey could get some more respect than freaking bowling. And you know what, I'm a gear whore just like anybody else but if we weren't such consumer lemmings maybe gear would be cheaper and more kids could afford to play. That was off topic, anyhow..........

P.S.S. Yes, I am also jaded by the obnoxious, unacceptable behavior of New England "fans".

[eric42434224 1]

You do not need to be involved in, or watch all levels of a sport....or even have to know the game to a very deep level...to be a fan. Fans come in all shapes, sizes, levels of knowledge and experience, and can enjoy the game at different levels.

And you can be both a fan of the game, and a fan of a team, and a fan of a player.....all or some at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive, nor is one inherently better than another.

The home team bias is perfectly logical....why isnt it? You are a fan of the home town team....how is that not logical? That is like saying it is not logical to like your own neighborhood, or not logical to prefer your local pizzeria.

You dont root for a jersey, you root for a team. Yes you root for new players. Its OK to stop rooting for players when they leave. I am not sure how this makes you sick.

You shouldnt let your distaste for idiot meathead fans (a point on which I agree with you) sour you on the great points of being a fan. Being a fan is great, fun, and rewarding...if it isnt taken too far. It sounds to me like the pendulum has swung in the far opposite direction for you. I would say that I respectfully disagree with you on almost every point....and feel that you are missing out on a great enjoyable part of the sport (being a fan), just like the idiot meathead fans are missing out on enjoying the game at the level you do.

JMO of course.

[chippa13 1844]

P.S.S. Yes, I am also jaded by the obnoxious, unacceptable behavior of New England "fans".

There are idiot fans of every sports team but thanks for painting with the broad brush.

[eric42434224 1]

P.S.S. Yes, I am also jaded by the obnoxious, unacceptable behavior of New England "fans".

There are idiot fans of every sports team but thanks for painting with the broad brush.

Not the Florida Panthers. I dont think there are enough people down here that are into Hockey enough, much less the Panthers, to qualify.

We are too apathetic to be idiot fans. :(

[Chadd 916]

Far too many people are fans of their team and their team only and could care less about the sport as a whole. I'm a Blackhawks fan, yet for years I would rather watch the Wings, the Flyers, the Rangers or the Leafs, simply because the teams were more entertaining to watch. I'd like to think it has more to do with maturity and overall interest in the sport, but that's a self serving philosophy to say the least.

[chippa13 1844]

Agreed, or even worse, some people are fans of players and not the team or the sport. I, too, have been forced to watch teams other than my own due to watchability. The B's were downright awful for a little while and while I would still watch them I would also have to watch a west coast game to get the taste out of my mouth.

[Steve_v3 289]

I want to see if anyone agrees with me in that there are sports fans, in my case a hockey fan, versus "team fans". I live in "red sox" nation and the general red sox "fan" personifies this personality to a T.

He or she has minimal knowledge of baseball, can't name more than the star players on any given roster if that, hasn't played an inning of competitive or even organized rec baseball, yet they have all the memoribilia, make fun of non-red sox fans, all in all act like the world is going to end when the sox lose, have no sense of sportsmanship, flip over cars, basically act like monkeys. It's obnoxious.

I agree that "Red Sox Nation" is comprised with a lot of morons. There are good fans though and those dopes make them look bad. These are same fans who used to complain about Yankees fans and now are they same if not worse. Patriots fans can just as bad. If the B's and Celtics continue winning and add multiple titles you'll get more and more fair weather fans cheering for them to. Like the dopes who add comments after a B's article in the Boston Globe. They usually say something like " Jacobs is so cheap " and most of them have a user name like "Pats Fan 2963".

As far as rooting for a team I respectfully disagree. I enjoy the ups and downs of rooting for one team. I can also appreciate the good plays and/or players of the opposing team though. I can't stand it when people say "it was a terrible game." just because there team lost. When I was younger the loses would bother me more but now I realize that it's not the end of the world. I really wanted the Wings to win the Cup this year. Mainly because I don't like the Pens, but it was a great series and enjoyed it a lot.

[eric42434224 1]

I love watching the game. I watch as much hockey as I can from every team....even replays on NHL network.

But rooting for a team is another thing entirely. It is much more emotional, and enjoyable on a completely different level.

I will try to watch hockey whenever I turn on the TV....but I actually look forward to my team's games.

[Balzinsker 0]

He or she has minimal knowledge of baseball, can't name more than the star players on any given roster if that, hasn't played an inning of competitive or even organized rec baseball, yet they have all the memoribilia, make fun of non-red sox fans, all in all act like the world is going to end when the sox lose, have no sense of sportsmanship, flip over cars, basically act like monkeys. It's obnoxious.

We have something similar to that here in Montreal, except the guy plays ball hockey, which is a great game to watch and use occasionally for off ice training, but more often then not has almost nothing to do with ice hockey. It actually gets quite aggravating when you're talking to a ball hockey goalie as he criticizes Carey price for not staying up all the time. In fact I've gotten many an interesting quote talking to habs fans here:

Habs Fan: If Andrei(Kostitsyn) tried every game he could get 40 goals easily.

Me: You know who they passed on to draft him?

HF: No.

Me: They could of had Carter, Richards, Getzlaf, Perry or Parise.

HF: I don't know, I'd still rather have Andrei, I hate most of those guys anyway.

or

HF: Zdeno Chara is a punk, and its a shame that he's the captain of their team.

Me: Why he's a good defenseman, and a leader on their team.

HF: Your captain should always be your best player, cause when the games on the line that's who should be counted on.

Me: But there are plenty of teams that have a captain that isn't their best player and it doesn't seem to hurt them.

HF: No, only losers have captains that aren't their best player, just like Kovalev should be the captain of the team. I mean have you seen his DVD?!

Me: Why does it always go back to his DVD?!

or

Me: (Sarcastically) Why do I get the feeling that if you were the RDS colour guy you'd do nothing but say the other team sucks.

HF: (Enthusiastically) I'd have to problem bitching about the other team all game!

or my personal favorite

(8 years ago) HF: The Habs prospect system is stocked with players that will make us a force for years to come.

(4 years ago) HF: The Habs prospect system is stocked with players that will make us a force for years to come.

(2 years ago) HF: The Habs prospect system is stocked with players that will make us a force for years to come.

While I give them credit that they know more about what's going on in the game that some places, they're still far from being as some would put it: "The most Knowledgeable fans in Hockey".

[Chadd 916]

That's just immaturity, regardless of their age.

[Fire0nIce228 1]

I watch hockey every night during the season and turn NHL on the fly on for recap and highlights while dressing for work, but I bleed black and gold and rooting for and following one team is what it's all about for me. Some may disagree, but I can also appreciate good plays by the opposition. I dunno, ya gotta have a team, but it doesn't mean if they get knocked out you can't enjoy the final rounds or whatever.

[Neo5370 132]

Great points guys. I admit I was letting off a bit of steam. But for those that prefer the home like their neighborhood or local pizzaria, most of the guys on your roster aren't from your home town, let alone state. Where's the logic in that? They play for you because you are paying them. Most of them didn't grow up wanting to be a bruin or a hab or a blue jacket.

And I should clarify, I don't have a bias against ALL people that have a hometown preference. I have a bias against the fan who loves only their team, and hates all others. Just like the parent whose child can do no wrong.

[Chadd 916]

The funny thing is the people that are the worst about running down another team usually have the thinnest skin when it comes to criticism of their team.

[usahockey22 0]

Yea, I tend to agree with a lot of what you are saying; this sentiment has been around since the beginning of organized sport...I can't remember the exact quote, or who said it, but there was a well-known Roman who said as much in one of the latin texts I was reading, about how absurd the behavior of chariot race fans was, where the masses would simply align themselves behind the meaningless color on the back of the driver, becoming intense with emotion based on how well that color performs. He pointed out that many times the athleticism involved is unimportant in comparison to how the fans would value the win or loss of their favorite team.

Anyway, I'm a hockey fan...I like to watch good hockey, and I really couldn't care less who wins or loses, as long as it's a good game. I do like the Blackhawks, probably just because my parents are from Chicago and I was raised to support them, but again, I'm there to see a good hockey game first, and if they win then that's great too. I also don't understand how some of these people can get so worked up over a commercial sports team (if anything, college is more understandable because you at least have some real tie to the players and they aren't payed to play). Of course the deplorable behavior seen by a lot of fans at sports games also has a lot to do with alcohol.

[Master P 0]

I think college football fans are worse. Unfortunately I live in a college football town. I could care less about the team. People have this die hard allegiance to the team. I have no idea why. Most of the people have never gone to the school.

[chippa13 1844]

Great points guys. I admit I was letting off a bit of steam. But for those that prefer the home like their neighborhood or local pizzaria, most of the guys on your roster aren't from your home town, let alone state. Where's the logic in that? They play for you because you are paying them. Most of them didn't grow up wanting to be a bruin or a hab or a blue jacket.

And I should clarify, I don't have a bias against ALL people that have a hometown preference. I have a bias against the fan who loves only their team, and hates all others. Just like the parent whose child can do no wrong.

Sure, they are not from your city but they are representing your city.

[dsjunior1388 81]

While I'm still a huge Red Wings fan. I've become a bigger fan of hockey itself lately. I was beyond aggravated listening to everyone say Hossa sucks when he was a Pen, than decree him lord and savior, only to decide he sucks again, after a 40 goal 70 point season.

I watched game 7 with 30+ members of my extended family. We were all very disappointed in the loss, but me and a few of my cousins watched every penguin hoist the cup, amid jeering for crosby and malkin, and overall bitchiness. As soon as Crosby touched the cup, my aunt stalked off, and after a few minutes marched over and said "WHY are you WATCHING THIS?" I just laughed and turned back to the TV, genuinely happy to see Jordan Staal, Marc Andre Fleury, and Max Talbot hoist the cup.

I understand why, it just pisses me off that people refuse to acknowledge a great player because he's on the wrong team. And that goes for crosby too. I hate certain things he does, in particular his "fights" and general unsportsmanlike conduct (the "announcement request" and not getting in the handshake line...) but the guy can flat out play and I enjoy watching him.

[DarkStar50 679]

Simply put, for me the older I get, the less I truly care about "my team" winning. When I was younger, I had a lot of passion for "my team." Then, every year they would screw up in the playoffs. As time went on, I gradually enjoyed watching the game more than "my team." This is long before there were so many games on every night. Hey, chippa, I have strong memories of watching TV38 Bruins games in the 80s with Fred Cusick and Johnny Pierson doing the games. As great as Ray Bourque was, I enjoyed Barry Pederson setting up Rick Middletown a lot. Great chemistry with those two. The Bruins weren't "my team." I was watching them on cable in NJ. I had changed into watching hockey for the game and its skills. Ever since then, I never really got too emotionally involved with any team. There are certain teams I want to see play well now but when they don't, it's ok by me. They may be players in the NHL, but it is a job(one we all dream would be awesome to have). I understand, though, that the passion for your team can remain strong and deep for a long time.

[chippa13 1844]

"You gotta like the way...................."

[DarkStar50 679]

Wow, classic Pierson. Thanks

[chippa13 1844]

My brother and I still get a hoot out of recycling the Pierson, Cusick, and Turk lines.

[Steve_v3 289]

The years Moog was with the B's Pierson would always talk about his balance. I remember him drawing a little fulcrum underneath him on telestrator.

P.S. Hey Hey

[chippa13 1844]

Good ole Turk. Anytime you heard, "Uh oh" the puck was in the back of the B's net seconds later.

[Law Goalie 147]

The hometown loyalty is a LOT more important in a system like European football, with a plethora of club-teams underpinning the a pile of increasingly professional leagues leading to the top division, all of which compete for a few national trophies every year; and the fact that kids go into the football academies before they're ten creates really tight engagement with the community. People have a lot more investment in time, money and hope in those teams than they do in any North American professional sport.

The closest analogy would probably have been the Canadiens when they automatically had the rights to any and all French-Canadian players. Things have changed, but that culture still exists in the attitude toward Quebecois players and the almost unreasonable passion around the team.

[cptjeff 0]

While I'm still a huge Red Wings fan. I've become a bigger fan of hockey itself lately. I was beyond aggravated listening to everyone say Hossa sucks when he was a Pen, than decree him lord and savior, only to decide he sucks again, after a 40 goal 70 point season.

I watched game 7 with 30+ members of my extended family. We were all very disappointed in the loss, but me and a few of my cousins watched every penguin hoist the cup, amid jeering for crosby and malkin, and overall bitchiness. As soon as Crosby touched the cup, my aunt stalked off, and after a few minutes marched over and said "WHY are you WATCHING THIS?" I just laughed and turned back to the TV, genuinely happy to see Jordan Staal, Marc Andre Fleury, and Max Talbot hoist the cup.

I understand why, it just pisses me off that people refuse to acknowledge a great player because he's on the wrong team. And that goes for crosby too. I hate certain things he does, in particular his "fights" and general unsportsmanlike conduct (the "announcement request" and not getting in the handshake line...) but the guy can flat out play and I enjoy watching him.

Except he did, and everyone by Lidstrom and draper? got to shake his hand. Not to mention that the pens had to wait a lot longer for the handshake line the year before then the wings had to wait this year.

Also, not every player in the league fights. When was the last time you saw Samsonov fight anybody? What a hoser, right? What about Ovechkin? Can't say I've seen him fight. Datsyuk? Crosby has fought, just not with an enforcer...

You seem to hate the Crosby bashers, but you're repeating some of the lies and non issues they use to complain about him...