NHL bashing

[nystromshairstylist 14]

There are a multiple of issues facing hockey growing as a sport in the US, some of which you may or may not agree with, and in no particular order:

1-ice hockey is an elegant, beautiful game sullied by fighting and too small rinks in the NHL. What rescued the NBA in the early 80s after it nearly shut down as a pro sport in the drug-filled, one-on-one days of the '70s was the passing component Bird and Magic brought to the game from 1980 forward. I love Olympic hockey because the larger rinks allow for more spacing, so passing is more prevalent. I stopped watching the NHL for abut 12 years, particularly while painfully dull teams like the Devils exploited the rules preventing 2-line passes with the neutral zone trap.

In summary, good passing will raise interest for the casual fan, who will finally get to see the game as it was meant to be, not a dump-and chase drudgery but one of passes throughout the ice...

2-eliminate fights: I know some might reject this, but I am not comfortable bringing small children so that they can see people punching each other in the face for 3-4 minutes, and having to explain why. Teaching little ones its important to use words and not hitting as the preferred method of solving disagreements isn't helped when you take them to a game and the Flyers and Bruins get into 12 fights in the first period alone.

3-reduce the ticket prices: why is it almost $150 PER TICKET to see a game from a decent spot in the stadium?

4-reduce the number of teams, as there are several NHL teams in cities with few fans, and persistent empty seats. The league has badly over-expanded, and the revenue isn't there to sustain so many.

5-spend as much as possible to build many, many rinks around the country.

I grew up in Queens and there were ZERO places to ice skate/play ice hockey in the area. For years, even in Manhattan the dreadful Chelsea piers was basically the only ice rink, but was/is not a viable option.

There are freakin' 20 MILLION people in the NYC-metro area, does anyone really think that if they built 5-7 more NHL or large sized rinks in the vicinity that they wouldn't attract thousands more people to come skate, and get interested in ice hockey?

[Chadd 916]

Aside from the fact that most of your ideas won't fly, none of that really applies to the topic.

[nystromshairstylist 14]

Aside from the fact that most of your ideas won't fly, none of that really applies to the topic.

I realized that as I was writing it alot was a bit of a rant, and somewhat off-topic, but I wanted to get 12 years of frustration with the NHL as a whole off my chest.

This funding issue can be considered just another bad decision by some senior people in the US when it comes to how to best expand the reach of the sport to the public.

I recall vividly when Bettman was lured over from the NBA to spruce up the marketing of the NHL, and clearly things have not worked out the way he or anyone else hoping for the popularity of the league would have wanted.

[chk hrd 164]

I love Olympic hockey because the larger rinks allow for more spacing, so passing is more prevalent.

This years Olympics are on NHL sized ice, games seem to be pretty good to me

[nystromshairstylist 14]

This years Olympics are on NHL sized ice, games seem to be pretty good to me

Agreed, the games have been better than expected, but I think they'd be even better with the 100-foot width International-sized rink...Pronger alone probably takes up 40% of the rink width himself ;)

[Chadd 916]

Off topic discussion split and relocated

[n3ss 0]

what would hockey canada do if there wasn't violence in hockey? THINK ABOUT THE CHERRY-ITES

[Quintin 16]

God, if you're that frustrated about how hockey is over there I can't imagine what you'd be like if you lived here :lol:

Taking out fighting would be stupid. The atmosphere in the crowd just won't the same if fighting is ruled out in the game. Sure you might be coming across bad to kids but isn't it the same with MMA, kick-boxing and even wrestling? Same with bigger rinks. Skill's nice and all but the exciting part is doing it in tight spaces. Watching Kovalev stickhandling in an open empty rink won't be as jaw dropping as if he did it against 3 players.

And as nice as it would be to build as many rinks, it's fantasy. I know how you feel, we're being outrun by curling. Maintaining a rink is hard enough work for the engineers and very hard on the wallet. A usual day for a rink engineer starts around 6am and don't usually finish til 1am. I don't think a lot of people are aspiring to work at that position. And then again, the lack of rinks makes the sport special. It'll keep people committed to the game. One thing I know that does my nuts is when some newbie tries out the sport and acts incredibly enthusiastic then never comes back.

[nystromshairstylist 14]

God, if you're that frustrated about how hockey is over there I can't imagine what you'd be like if you lived here :lol:

Canadians may own the game, but as Americans we'd like to think we can borrow it from you once in a while... ;)

Taking out fighting would be stupid. The atmosphere in the crowd just won't the same if fighting is ruled out in the game. Sure you might be coming across bad to kids but isn't it the same with MMA, kick-boxing and even wrestling?

Anyone who brings a kid 4-11 years old to MMA/boxing is making a questionable parental decision. I know what you mean, the die-hards cried when Times Square and Vegas was cleaned up to make them both more "family-friendly" - i.e., nauseatingly-Disneyesque, but no other major sport allows it, and it just seems out of place in 2010...

I think you might lose some of the beer-guzzling men 16-34, but might gain alot more families - with more disposable income. It might just end up being a business decision for the league.

Same with bigger rinks. Skill's nice and all but the exciting part is doing it in tight spaces. Watching Kovalev stickhandling in an open empty rink won't be as jaw dropping as if he did it against 3 players.

The 15' added to equal int'l rinks would be to compensate for the increased size of the players, who are far bigger than they were even just a few decades back.

And as nice as it would be to build as many rinks, it's fantasy. I know how you feel, we're being outrun by curling. Maintaining a rink is hard enough work for the engineers and very hard on the wallet. A usual day for a rink engineer starts around 6am and don't usually finish til 1am. I don't think a lot of people are aspiring to work at that position. And then again, the lack of rinks makes the sport special. It'll keep people committed to the game. One thing I know that does my nuts is when some newbie tries out the sport and acts incredibly enthusiastic then never comes back.

Not sure about your area, but here in NY its a real problem, as there is a real lack fo rinks here, with space and rental costs being the primary obstacles. In suburban areas, its probably far less of a problem, but with so many people in urban areas, its very difficult to get ice time at a reasonable hour.

It is also a sport that should not be like tennis, a wealthy-person's "exclusive" game that only the rich or white-suburban (I'm white BTW, just to point out) should have access to, and there is some marketplace perception that ice hockey is a white suburban game.

The NBA spent millions from the 80s forward to build parks in poorer, urban areas when cities could not afford to do so, giving kids there a chance to learn and love the game. It was simply smart investing, just a way of driving growth and interest in the game for future generations.

[The Mafia Line 0]

I do agree that some more rinks should be built but you do understand that building an entire rink, is just a bit more expensive then putting a hoop in the middle of a playground right?

Also, I live in queens and there are two rinks within a 15 min. drive, and then there are two rinks in Manhattan, two in brooklyn, two in Long Island, one in Staten Island and two in NJ. Only the rink in Staten Island and one in NJ is much farther than a 50 minute drive from me. That is 11 rinks and as far as ACTUAL rinks (some places have 1,2 or 4) that's 19 actual rinks. These are only the ones I know about and I'm not counting the outdoor ones. For most of the day (M-F until about 3pm) most rinks have nothing going on them.

[Chadd 916]

Taking out fighting would be stupid. The atmosphere in the crowd just won't the same if fighting is ruled out in the game. Sure you might be coming across bad to kids but isn't it the same with MMA, kick-boxing and even wrestling?

I would be more than happy to be able to go to a game and not have to worry about geting a beer shower when someone from the other team makes an incredible move and I applaud it. There are more than a few fans in every rink that are there simply for the violence and everyone would be a lot better off without them.

I don't think fighting should be removed as I don't think the league has the willpower to hand out suspensions required in a league without fighting.

I do agree that some more rinks should be built but you do understand that building an entire rink, is just a bit more expensive then putting a hoop in the middle of a playground right?

Also, I live in queens and there are two rinks within a 15 min. drive, and then there are two rinks in Manhattan, two in brooklyn, two in Long Island, one in Staten Island and two in NJ. Only the rink in Staten Island and one in NJ is much farther than a 50 minute drive from me. That is 11 rinks and the one in Jersey has 4 actual rinks. For most of the day (M-F until about 3pm) most rinks have nothing going on them. Mostly public skates that are empty as hell.

That cost is why the NHL needs to embrace inline hockey for growth in the US. Create more hockey players, ice or inline, and you will create more fans. Inline requires much less investment for players and facilities.

[furlanitalia 1]

I would be more than happy to be able to go to a game and not have to worry about geting a beer shower when someone from the other team makes an incredible move and I applaud it. There are more than a few fans in every rink that are there simply for the violence and everyone would be a lot better off without them.

Couldn't agree more. I don't cringe at every fight (in fact I enjoy some) but if the players that are on the team only to fight were no longer around how much better would the hockey be? Look at the Olympics. Has anyone stopped enjoyed the games any less because there is no fighting?

[Chadd 916]

Couldn't agree more. I don't cringe at every fight (in fact I enjoy some) but if the players that are on the team only to fight were no longer around how much better would the hockey be? Look at the Olympics. Has anyone stopped enjoyed the games any less because there is no fighting?

When I see guys like Boogard or Orr square off for a fight at a faceoff, it makes me cringe. When Iggy gets pissed about the way someone hit him and decides to take matters into his own hands, it strikes me as appropriate. I would rather see a team that is tough instead of a team with a couple heavyweight fighters.

[Neal 41]

Chadd, your statement about Iginla speaks to what intrigued me about Law's argument about Boyle's slewfoot against Semin. Would Boyle have just grabbed Semin and gone toe to toe if the penalty for fighting wasn't a suspension per IIHF rules?

I agree that the outlet of fighting is necessary in hockey. I also agree the specialist fighter is a horrible thing. But they are hard to get rid of, apparently because most teams have one.

I wonder if there would ever be an appetite for a minimum proficiency level. I'm not sure how you would measure it, but Boogard's no goals in the last 100 games seems to me to be below an NHL level player's abilities. Perhaps if you used points per game or plus minus versus ice time you could weed some of these out.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

I'll give it a shot...

1-ice hockey is an elegant, beautiful game sullied by fighting and too small rinks in the NHL. What rescued the NBA in the early 80s after it nearly shut down as a pro sport in the drug-filled, one-on-one days of the '70s was the passing component Bird and Magic brought to the game from 1980 forward. I love Olympic hockey because the larger rinks allow for more spacing, so passing is more prevalent. I stopped watching the NHL for abut 12 years, particularly while painfully dull teams like the Devils exploited the rules preventing 2-line passes with the neutral zone trap.

This years olympics are being played on an NHL sized rink. IIHF rinks are 200x98, NHL are 200x85. It's not a huge difference in size. There has been many exciting games in this years olympics and NHL season

In summary, good passing will raise interest for the casual fan, who will finally get to see the game as it was meant to be, not a dump-and chase drudgery but one of passes throughout the ice...

Good passing does not come with bigger ice, it comes with better players and good coaching teaching them how to exploit other teams systems with the long pass

2-eliminate fights: I know some might reject this, but I am not comfortable bringing small children so that they can see people punching each other in the face for 3-4 minutes, and having to explain why. Teaching little ones its important to use words and not hitting as the preferred method of solving disagreements isn't helped when you take them to a game and the Flyers and Bruins get into 12 fights in the first period alone.

The problem with that is that it is so ingrained in the history of the sport that the backlash would far outnumber any potential gains in revenue from eliminating fighting. It's also a major draw for people when they see highlights. People want to see big hits, great goals, big saves and fighting. That is what will have the casual fan pause instead of changing channel

3-reduce the ticket prices: why is it almost $150 PER TICKET to see a game from a decent spot in the stadium?

Ice costs a lot more to maintain than a basketball court. You have the refrigerant, cooling, ice preparation, replay officals, guys to man the penalty box, people to resurface the ice, zamboni maintenance etc. In addition they need more sophisticated equipment managers and machines etc. In addition, all the other "major" sports have much more lucrative TV contracts that provide much needed additional income to the teams

4-reduce the number of teams, as there are several NHL teams in cities with few fans, and persistent empty seats. The league has badly over-expanded, and the revenue isn't there to sustain so many.

How do you propose selling that to the NHLPA? Hey guys, we need your union to give up about 120 jobs (that's 4 teams).

5-spend as much as possible to build many, many rinks around the country.

Which will cause ticket prices to go up. Fort Dupont here in DC has been great for getting inner city kids involved in hockey and speed skating. Shawni Davis sponsored equipment here and they had a viewing party for his races in the olympics. Donald Brashear also put on events here to get the kids out and interested. But with municipal shortfalls in every budget, it's closing it's doors in the next few weeks or month because its funding was cut. You can't lobby for less teams, which means less overall revenue and cheaper tickets and then in the same breath say, also build more rinks without a plan.

I grew up in Queens and there were ZERO places to ice skate/play ice hockey in the area. For years, even in Manhattan the dreadful Chelsea piers was basically the only ice rink, but was/is not a viable option.

There are freakin' 20 MILLION people in the NYC-metro area, does anyone really think that if they built 5-7 more NHL or large sized rinks in the vicinity that they wouldn't attract thousands more people to come skate, and get interested in ice hockey?

Is there anything to support your claim that thousands would come to skate? IT's cheaper for city residents to pick up a basketball or a baseball and go to the park. The ice rinks might attract some initial attention, but is it sustainable, and if so, how? If it was such a no brainer, why hasn't anyone done it yet?

Don't mean to be a downer, just offering a counterpoint to your argument

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

What rescued the NBA in the early 80s after it nearly shut down as a pro sport in the drug-filled, one-on-one days of the '70s was the passing component Bird and Magic brought to the game from 1980 forward.

yeah, the NBA is what i'd consider a passing league. if by passing you mean travel and dunk.

[Chadd 916]

yeah, the NBA is what i'd consider a passing league. if by passing you mean travel and dunk.

In the 80s, there were a couple teams that were dominant for a number of years. The talent on display when the Lakers and Celtics met up was amazing. Combine talent, consistency, high entertainment value and excellent scheduling, and it is a recipe for success.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

in the 80s. and then they declined, and hockey was on the cusp of overtaking them in popularity before the 94 lockout. now the NBA is popular with the curent bullshit they've got on display.

[Chadd 916]

in the 80s. and then they declined, and hockey was on the cusp of overtaking them in popularity before the 94 lockout. now the NBA is popular with the curent bullshit they've got on display.

It went from a team game to a one-man isolation game, courtesy of mr jordan. Everyone started imitating the Bulls style of putting jordan on one side of the court and everyone else on the other. The triangle offense is a load of bull. When the game was on the line, MJ had the ball and everyone else was watching.

[nystromshairstylist 14]

I do agree that some more rinks should be built but you do understand that building an entire rink, is just a bit more expensive then putting a hoop in the middle of a playground right?

No question, but why can't the NHL do what the NBA did, and put some development money behind building more?

Also, I live in queens and there are two rinks within a 15 min. drive, and then there are two rinks in Manhattan, two in brooklyn, two in Long Island, one in Staten Island and two in NJ. Only the rink in Staten Island and one in NJ is much farther than a 50 minute drive from me. That is 11 rinks and as far as ACTUAL rinks (some places have 1,2 or 4) that's 19 actual rinks. These are only the ones I know about and I'm not counting the outdoor ones. For most of the day (M-F until about 3pm) most rinks have nothing going on them.

Queens and Brooklyn alone have 6 MM + people, that's more than almost any other city in N America. Chelsea piers sucks, is hard to get to and a fortune, and STaten Isl. and NJ forget about, too far to drive to.

People who have showed up recently to City Ice Pav have told me that the Bklyn rinks are packed at open hockey. It is not surprising rinks will be empty during the day except for the various school trips which pack them with little kids, making the weekeday public skate a nightmare.

I do not have any kind of research, but I'd guess that for the population density, NYC is on the low end for number of rinks per 100,000 pop.

Couldn't agree more. I don't cringe at every fight (in fact I enjoy some) but if the players that are on the team only to fight were no longer around how much better would the hockey be? Look at the Olympics. Has anyone stopped enjoyed the games any less because there is no fighting?

Thanks, you're right on the money. Was there even one fight in the 25 or so games?

[Chadd 916]

No question, but why can't the NHL do what the NBA did, and put some development money behind building more?

The NHL gave a lot of money to USA Hockey and that money is going to fund high end junior teams to be able to compete at the major international competitions, not grow the base of the sport. Blame USA Hockey for that if you want, that was their call. Building a rink is actually the cheap part, it is operating a rink that is expensive. Especially in markets where real estate costs are high.

[IniNew 53]

Thanks, you're right on the money. Was there even one fight in the 25 or so games?

There wasn't a fight because you get suspended for the rest of the games. However, because there was no fighting, and no one to answer to you get the Semin/Boyle incident.

[chk hrd 164]

There wasn't a fight because you get suspended for the rest of the games. However, because there was no fighting, and no one to answer to you get the Semin/Boyle incident.

Or Jokinen punching Kane in the back of the head in thier last game. It will even out in the NHL games, players have long memories.