Calls in Minor Hockey

[jdaves 0]

Good morning fellow Mod Squaders. This is my first post so my apologies if this has already been a topic, i had some troubles with the search button.

I am a minor hockey referee, and in the process of becoming a Jr. official.

I was reffing a bantam AE game in Guelph, Ontario last weekend, and on before me was an Atom LL game. i decided i would watch for a bit, being only 18, i can remember being that young not to long ago. In this game, the officials had let the game go completely awyre, body checks were being thrown, elbows, you name it, it happened. Parents were screaming, coaches using profanity, and even the skaters were looking for their next "victim"

It got me thinking:

a ) what can an official do better in a game that gets out of hand!

b ) what was the worst you have ever seen in a minor hockey game.

Another thing i wanted to touch on was hitting from behind. I have been officiating for 3 years now, and had to call my first HFB. I gave the skater 5 + Game, for dilliberately hitting the kid in to the boards. The player recieved a 3 game suspension, and i recieved much critisism for not just giving him a 2-minute + a GM. I believe that in peewee, we need to teach kids that HFB is very wrong, and a 1 game suspension for a 2 minute + GM doesnt cut it. They go to school the next day, telling all of their friends, sounding like rebels. As a referee, i would like to see the safest hockey game possible played.

What are everyone's opinions on this matter? Your input is greatly appreaciated!

[lotus 2]

You're the reff here, but personally I would hand out 5s to anything I thought could cause injury. You're right, kids need to learn whats wrong. They see Dan Boyle (however a good guy he is) slew foot Alex Semin after a clean hard hit in the Olympics and they think they can go do that - an act that's a lot more dangerous than people know. You've got to steer them back in the right direction.

If a game is really out of hand, just start tossing people out of the game. The only time I would put away the whistle is in with 10 or less minutes left in a big game that's within reach - and even then I call things that are dangerous or blatantly effect the outcome of a play.

[sand21 0]

One thing that I have learned to keep a game in control is to call penalties early. You don't want to let small things slide then have to call same thing you let slide in the 3rd when the games getting out of hand. Like in a scrum around the goalie if I get in there, whether its the 1st or 3rd period, and they're still shoving I'll start taking guys to the box to let them know that I'm in control of the game. So for me, making calls early and consistently are key to keeping a game from getting out of hand.

[jdaves 0]

So for me, making calls early and consistently are key to keeping a game from getting out of hand.

I agree 100%. I tend to hand 2 Minutes out for Unsportsmanlike after their intial warning to jeep their mouths shut, and if that doesnt help, follow it up with a 10. I have been fortunate to never have had to been in a game so out of hand, however, for instances that i might, i wanted to get some opinion from you guys.

I have a Peewee LL game tonight. The introduction to body contact, so they tend to be "rough games."

Thanks for the imput so far, and anymore would be greatly appraciated!!!!

[BenderHockey 127]

One thing that I have learned to keep a game in control is to call penalties early. You don't want to let small things slide then have to call same thing you let slide in the 3rd when the games getting out of hand.

+1. Call 70% in the 1st, 20% in the 2nd, and 10% in the third.

[jdaves 0]

What do you mean by Call 70%? In minor, shouldnt we be expected to call everything?

[weedsnager 0]

I believe that in peewee, we need to teach kids that HFB is very wrong, and a 1 game suspension for a 2 minute + GM doesnt cut it. They go to school the next day, telling all of their friends, sounding like rebels. As a referee, i would like to see the safest hockey game possible played.

What are everyone's opinions on this matter? Your input is greatly appreaciated!

i agree it is one of the worst things a kid can do.....needs to be strictly enforced............do they have the "stop" patch on the back of the jersey's in canada?

don't know if it does any good....just wondering if they have it in canada

[jdaves 0]

i agree it is one of the worst things a kid can do.....needs to be strictly enforced............do they have the "stop" patch on the back of the jersey's in canada?

don't know if it does any good....just wondering if they have it in canada

It is a weird situation regarding the stop patches. In Ontario amyway, there are too different associations i deal wih as a ref, the OMHA (Ontario MInor Hockey Association) and Alliance. Various teams from both "leagues" have the patches but it is not mandatory. I am thinkning about launching a minor campaign about safety in minor hockey.

I also know, in some circumstances, they rely on an "system" to make sure coaches and players suspended are sitting out!

[kin1013 0]

call those penalties taking away scoring chance!

Throw the person out for more then the others!! Give them 10 minutes misconducts so that they are in the box for a long time! Or give more to 1 team to the other, 1 call double minor and the other just call a minor, so you got both teams, and the trouble players are gone to the box!!

But communication is the key to the players and the coaches behind the bench. Make sure you have verbal communication with the players and coaches. Give the coach the warning, so that he could communicate to his players, and if players don't follow the coach, you are definitely entitled to call those penalties you told the coach about. If players talk back to you after warnings, don't even have to give them any minor to give the other team numerical advantage, just throw the player in the box for 10 minutes misconduct. The player is going to shut up, the coach is going to be upset with that player too.

Those 50/50 calls... i tend not to call them, and if they are serious, and hurt people and taking away scoring chance, you should definitely call them.

[jdaves 0]

Are we talking the minors like tripping and hooking for 50/50?

[BenderHockey 127]

What do you mean by Call 70%? In minor, shouldnt we be expected to call everything?

Sorry, I didn't explain it well. Of course, you should ALWAYS call what you see. The reason for what I said was if you call it tight in the first, and then keep up the same standard throughout the gaem, then guys will figure out what you will and will not call and the amount of penalties goes down farther into the game. You are making 100% of the calls throughout the game, but it will end up that 70% of them occur in the first, and so on.

[chippa13 1844]

Good morning fellow Mod Squaders. This is my first post so my apologies if this has already been a topic, i had some troubles with the search button.

I am a minor hockey referee, and in the process of becoming a Jr. official.

I was reffing a bantam AE game in Guelph, Ontario last weekend, and on before me was an Atom LL game. i decided i would watch for a bit, being only 18, i can remember being that young not to long ago. In this game, the officials had let the game go completely awyre, body checks were being thrown, elbows, you name it, it happened. Parents were screaming, coaches using profanity, and even the skaters were looking for their next "victim"

It got me thinking:

a ) what can an official do better in a game that gets out of hand!

b ) what was the worst you have ever seen in a minor hockey game.

Another thing i wanted to touch on was hitting from behind. I have been officiating for 3 years now, and had to call my first HFB. I gave the skater 5 + Game, for dilliberately hitting the kid in to the boards. The player recieved a 3 game suspension, and i recieved much critisism for not just giving him a 2-minute + a GM. I believe that in peewee, we need to teach kids that HFB is very wrong, and a 1 game suspension for a 2 minute + GM doesnt cut it. They go to school the next day, telling all of their friends, sounding like rebels. As a referee, i would like to see the safest hockey game possible played.

What are everyone's opinions on this matter? Your input is greatly appreaciated!

To answer your first question, never let the game get out of hand to begin with. Being consistent and stopping the stupid stuff early in a game always works.

[Chadd 916]

I only have ten years of officiating experience, but here is what I have learned over the years.

1. A referee can not control the game.

2. You cannot prevent anything, only call the penalties that you see.

3. Don't take the players actions personally, you have top remain as calm and dispassionate as possible.

4. If you see it call it, but don't go looking for penalties to call.

As for the first part of your post, all you can do is call the penalties that you see. Most of the time, players will not get out of hand when you do that. In the rare instances that it does, you can always point to the long list of penalties to prove that you did your part to keep things in line.

On the HFB, or CFB as we call it down here; Your job is to assess the proper penalty for the act that you see. Not to determine the suspension or decide how long a player should be off the ice. Just call the penalty that fits the situation, apply the rule book consistently and everything will take care of itself.

[furlanitalia 1]

To answer your first question, never let the game get out of hand to begin with. Being consistent and stopping the stupid stuff early in a game always works.

Exactly. I lined a game on monday in which the ref let some stuff go in the beginning and got in way over his head by the middle of the second. Don't be afraid to make game breaking calls early: Hits from behind, hits to the head, penalty shots, anything that is a big call (but make sure it happened, d. on't go looking for these calls but call them if you see them). I find that this not only installs your confidence, but if it happens late in the game it won't be a shock when you call it. The flipside is if you let something go in the beginning and a similar or worse hit happens late in the game, you know have to justify why you didn't call the first one.

Call what you see and make sure you know the rules! Don't take bs from coaches and make them step down from the bench and away from the players if they want to talk to you. Keep your cool, and if a game does get out of hand, or is getting heated, make sure you take a step back from the play so you can see everything. Oh, and don't rush in if there is a scrum/fight. Take a deep breath and make sure you stay back to see everything. Let your linesmen break it up, and only get in if you have to.

[Husker 0]

I only have ten years of officiating experience, but here is what I have learned over the years.

1. A referee can not control the game.

I can agree and disagree at the same time with this. While a ref can't stop an initial cheap shot they can stop it from getting increasingly rougher by making the call and not letting seemingly small infractions go. I know in my mens league the refs are notorious for being very very slack on offsides, icing, and stick infractions. Players get frustrated and take things into their own hands. If you yell at them when they are chatting with their buddies on your bench or the other bench they look for things to call on you.

[furlanitalia 1]

I only have ten years of officiating experience, but here is what I have learned over the years.

1. A referee can not control the game.

A great example of this is blowing the play dead because of a wicked slash, calling the penalty, and having a player come from behind me to jump the offender and pummel him. You can't control everything but if you make the calls you see (and are in proper position to see as many calls as you can) then you will be able to do your best to control what you can.

[Shtrsdad 0]

A great question from a young and upcoming official. Officiating in any sport is a thankless job. Through this seasom, I have been witness to the full spectrum of officiating in what is known as ELITE hockey. If you look at the Hockey Canada Officials web page, the two words that really struck me were "FAIR" and "SAFE". Too often one of these tend to go sideways. It'll get ugly when they both go. Some of the best games to watch or coach are those where you barely know there are officials on the ice until they are needed. When it starts to look like the ref is making the game about him it's gonna get strange. For instance, 35 penalties called in a 5-4 game where I don't recall more than 3 or 4 in the first period....... there were a bunch of folks riled up and the official only talking to the team benefitting from the power plays! That was not a pleasent place to be and the first time I've walked out of an arena because I couldn't bear to watch any more!

The other thing that sticks with me is the communication. We Canadians tend to be rather emotionally invested in this game. An official can control a great deal of what happens by simply communicating on the ice. Whether it be to the players after a scrum or during the play..... something along the lines of a simple warning "keep the stick down" on a back check or even letttign the D know that they get the first shove to clear the crease but "Im not going to tolerate the cheap shots after the whistle" to taking the few sseconds to explain a call that may not have been so easy to discern from a bench. now granted, there is a line that can be crossed, but, again, "I'll explain what I was thinking, but if ya keep arguing I'm gonna have to give ya 2" at least it's been explained before there has to be action. In my opinion, one of the worst things that an officail can do is completely ignore a coach or player when an explanation is requested. Nobody likes to be ignored.

A great deal of time and money is being spent on RESPECT in hockey. That/this is a 2-way street. As a Player and Coach or Parent, we have to respect the fact that there are people out there willing to take on the obligation of Officiating, as an Official there has to be a respect for the game and the fact that the kids on the ice are doing their best in playing the game, coaches that have invested time in teaching these kids and improving their skills and the parents that fund the whole works are right in expecting you as an Official to do your job. As it has been pointed out, at a minor hockey game the Officials are the only guys in the building paid to be there.... and rightfully so.

Man, what a diatribe! The short vesion of the above is that FAIR and SAFE are the overriding principles. Do your best regardless of the division you are officiating is also important, cuz it'll show everybody you're not there just for the paycheck.

Kudos to you!

[furlanitalia 1]

Great post shtrsdad. One point that sticks out the most to me is communication. Explain your calls to the coach when he asks. Don't automatically head over there, but don't ignore them if they are asking you to come over.

Secondly, a great way to keep the game in check is too be constantly talking to the players. "Off the back, move the puck, take a look, play it, hands down" and things like that are great to yell when you're officiating because it not only lets the players know you're there and watching, but that you're warning them as well. That way if there is a borderline call that you make you can inform the player or coach that you were warning him the whole way in and you want to keep the game clean and fair. This also applies to lining I find. If I know the ref is missing something behind the play I have been known to skate in or raise my voice so the players know they aren't going to get away with something.

[Chadd 916]

The other thing that sticks with me is the communication. We Canadians tend to be rather emotionally invested in this game. An official can control a great deal of what happens by simply communicating on the ice. Whether it be to the players after a scrum or during the play..... something along the lines of a simple warning "keep the stick down" on a back check or even letttign the D know that they get the first shove to clear the crease but "Im not going to tolerate the cheap shots after the whistle" to taking the few sseconds to explain a call that may not have been so easy to discern from a bench. now granted, there is a line that can be crossed, but, again, "I'll explain what I was thinking, but if ya keep arguing I'm gonna have to give ya 2" at least it's been explained before there has to be action. In my opinion, one of the worst things that an officail can do is completely ignore a coach or player when an explanation is requested. Nobody likes to be ignored.

I agree that communication is important, but that does not equate to control. At most a referee can "manage" a game, there is no way to prevent people from taking action. I have always been one of the most vocal guys when working a game. You can defuse a lot of problems by talking to players and answering questions, if you're good at it. I know a few guys that would be better served keeping their mouth shut the entire game because they just piss off everyone when they speak. My line with players and coaches is generally; "I will answer any question you have, but we're not going to have a debate."

For the most part we're on the same page, it's just a minor issue of semantics. I just think it's important to dispel the notion of "control". It is up to the coaches to control their players, not the referee. Sure, you can talk them down off the ledge at times, but you aren't the one that put him there.

I can agree and disagree at the same time with this. While a ref can't stop an initial cheap shot they can stop it from getting increasingly rougher by making the call and not letting seemingly small infractions go. I know in my mens league the refs are notorious for being very very slack on offsides, icing, and stick infractions. Players get frustrated and take things into their own hands. If you yell at them when they are chatting with their buddies on your bench or the other bench they look for things to call on you.

That's where point 4 comes in; If you see a penalty call it. A referee can obviously contribute to a game getting out of control, there is no doubt about that. In the end though, it is the players that get increasingly rougher, not the officials. I always told coaches and captains that I was a tight ass before games, but that I would be a tight ass all game long towards both teams. Especially in a beer league game. There are a lot of bad refs out there, unfortunately nothing ever seems to happen to them.

[jdaves 0]

thanks guys. all the advice is greatly appreaciated. i have an OHL scout coming to look today, so i will keep this all in mind!

[ktang 34]

I have to agree with Chadd's numbered points. If you ref enough, you will eventually come across games that can't be controlled, only managed, by anybody. Then you have to do your job and make the best of a bad situation.

[kin1013 0]

those call that you missed is going to come back to you.. and that is why I have to mention the 50 50 calls.. it's going to gone out of hand if the game is not managed properly.

Communication is the key!!

[jdaves 0]

everyone's advice was muchly appreaciated. scout liked what he saw, and we are begining the next stage of the process, of moving up to a jr. career!

[furlanitalia 1]

Congratulations! Glad to hear we could help lol.

[Shtrsdad 0]

"For the most part we're on the same page, it's just a minor issue of semantics. I just think it's important to dispel the notion of "control". It is up to the coaches to control their players, not the referee. Sure, you can talk them down off the ledge at times, but you aren't the one that put him there."

Hey, Chadd, I can live with that. perhaps "control" was a bit heavy, manage works too.

jdave... congrats partner. Keep up the good work