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Chad Seibel

Ice vs Roller

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I started learning to play inline, and actually skate, about three years ago. I'm lucky to share a home rink with the Cyclones, and see a lot of the top shelf of roller. Some of them are roller/ice and or ice/roller, which is typical of the top inline teams.

My partner, Joe Noris, knows ice and roller as well an anyone on earth and I know his opinions which I've grown up with in the business. The Hockey Company introduced us. My point here is that I've never put on a pair of ice skates except in my house to see how much you could move forward and backward on the blades. And to look at myself in a mirror to see what it looks like. Just did that with some 11Ks. And I am dying to put on the correct attire and skates and get on a sheet of ice with a stick and a puck.

Having nothing to do with actually functioning in a game, which I'm a total nubie at, I want to find out how much I can keep my butt off the floor, first. Then I want to find out if only skating on my chassis makes being on ice familiar. I'm too old to learn roller, so I might as well be too old in both. After reading this thread, I want to do it soon as I can get some skates.

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In the Open Ice Hockey that I play alot of roller guys come to play and one thing I noticed is that most of them skate with their head down ALOT. Now most of them are great stickhandlers, passers and shooters but when they are trying to razzle dazzle w/ the puck anyone whose ever played in a checking ice league would have a field day laying these guys out. The other difference is the skating. The one thing I noticed that will deke a roller guy every time is to just gain the blue line and throw on the brakes. Usually the defender will continue to glide for a second or two giving you a few seconds in the clear. Now with that being said, the majority of roller guys that consistently show up and play on the ice with us have shown a dramatic improvement skating wise. The "throw on the brakes" move is working less and less but their heads are still down. Now I'm not sure if there are full checking roller leagues out there (I've never seen or heard or played in one) but they might be beneficial to some to teach them to keep their heads up.

P.S.

As stated before please ditch the roller pants on the ice and get into some hockey pants/socks combo. That would go a long way towards the transition.

The roller league I play in has offsides and icing. Although the offsides is blueline in redline out it is offsides. Plus its 5 on 5.

As I said before the games are different. I agree that they are a lot more suicide passes in roller and that guys have their head down a lot more. Coming from a guy who loved to open ice hit guys, I lick my chops a lot. Now saying this, all it takes is a couple of hits (just like how ice players learned) and the guys tart getting their head up more. There are differences in the game and that is the beauty of it. If we can look at the differences and embrace them, then I think ice and roller players can get along a lot more and HOCKEY as an overall sport can begin to grow over the other sports.

Hockey is the fastest game around and one of the best for fun and exercise and I want more kids playing. Sure beats sitting in left field and batting once every 4 innings.

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Hockey is the fastest game around and one of the best for fun and exercise and I want more kids playing. Sure beats sitting in left field and batting once every 4 innings.

Hey now lets hold up a minute. I love both kinds of hockey just as much as anyone else on this forum but lets leave baseball alone. Lets not forget that its America's game and Hockey is Canada's.

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Hey now lets hold up a minute. I love both kinds of hockey just as much as anyone else on this forum but lets leave baseball alone. Lets not forget that its America's game and Hockey is Canada's.

Funny you mention that. I was with some Europeans who were here for the Gold Medal game and they asked "How come hockey is not more popular in this rich country?"

My response: "Have you ever been to Disney World before? I know you don't see it here in New York, but the majority of Americans are a bunch of fat asses and will make no effort to change it."

Baseball economically is much better for America. A much broader base of consumer can play it, the economic barriers of entry are practically non-existent. Every town has a ball field somewhere which is free to use. The father-son bonding aspect can continue as men reach beyond the age where they have to stop playing hockey is substantially earlier than baseball.

Plus, if you think the pharmaceutical companies are going to let a sport that keeps people in shape become popular you must be dreaming.

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It's interesting how many people simultaneously post "I hate how roller hockey people worry so much about looks" and follow it up with "I hate when people where their inline pants to play ice hockey." Yeah, it's silly to wear roller pants on ice, but people do what they do; it's kind of absurd to say "I don't like a certain sport because once I met a guy who played it, and I didn't like the way he did things."

I think what makes them both fun is the subtle differences that people have touched on. Like someone said, I think playing both helps to improve your skills at the other.

I grew up playing roller, and I think I tend to like it more, mostly because of the openness of roller. And while the straight-up skating speed is a little slower, the overall speed of the game can be faster at a high level, because there's more room for passing. It gets slowed down when people just want to skate end to end, but the speed can really pick up from having no offsides and only 4 skaters per team.

As far as contact, I think the average roller game has much contact as the average adult league ice game. There's no booming open-ice hits in roller, but you don't get that in adult rec leagues, which is what a vast majority of people on here play anyway.

I think the nhl and usa hockey and whatever other powers-that-be would do well to push roller. Ice hockey is simply out of the income range for too many people. Inline is moderately cheaper, plus you have more of a "pick up and play" factor if there's some sort of big flat place to play outdoors.

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I grew up playing roller, and I think I tend to like it more, mostly because of the openness of roller. And while the straight-up skating speed is a little slower, the overall speed of the game can be faster at a high level, because there's more room for passing. It gets slowed down when people just want to skate end to end, but the speed can really pick up from having no offsides and only 4 skaters per team.

I must be the only one here who plays in a 5 on 5 roller league with offsides and icing. And as for more room to pass I guess you've never played at Tab Ramos in Aberdeen NJ. The rink is tiny. So imagine a too small rink, 5 on 5 and 2 refs on the floor all at once. Doesn't leave a whole lot of room. That being said, they do have 4 on 4 leagues there too but they play on Tuesday nights and I play Ice Hockey mid-week. Plus there's a bar upstairs and who wants to stay and drink after a game on a Tuesday night?

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To those that think ice players should not play roller. I would say to them that they are closed minded stupid people. From personal experience I can attest to the fact that I was a far better ice player for having played roller when I went back to ice. From a skill point of view that is true, but also, it allowed me to enjoy the game more as well and appreciate the differences between the 2.

Lets all play hockey and get along. We should be happy if people are playing hockey and moving the whole sport forward. Lets crush this mentality and let it die when the "old guys" are out of the game.

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hey now,Im one of the old guys that love the inline game.and yes Im an ice guy,what made my ice game better from the inline game was the 4 on 4 play.alot of reading the play, reacting to the quick transition with no offsides.just such a great game.no its not ice hockey its inline hockey ,I"ll play either one any given day.just love the game.

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On roller hockey can you throw on the brakes and immediately change direction without have to perform a tight turn or curl of some sort? Honestly can't tell why I don't like roller hockey, but it could be that I feel it isn't as intense a sport as ice hockey. That said I haven't seen many games so my judgment is based solely on an uneducated view of the sport, and I would assume that is the case for almost every who turns their nose up at it. They either haven't seen it be played or don't know enough about it.

I have been inline skating for a long time and i can tell you that if you are a good enough skater, you are able to stop on a dime and immediately change direction. I can honestly say that the average recreational hockey play CANNOT do this. However it can be done and I agree that this is how the game should be played.

I must be the only one here who plays in a 5 on 5 roller league with offsides and icing. And as for more room to pass I guess you've never played at Tab Ramos in Aberdeen NJ. The rink is tiny. So imagine a too small rink, 5 on 5 and 2 refs on the floor all at once. Doesn't leave a whole lot of room. That being said, they do have 4 on 4 leagues there too but they play on Tuesday nights and I play Ice Hockey mid-week. Plus there's a bar upstairs and who wants to stay and drink after a game on a Tuesday night?

I also play 5 on 5 roller hockey with offsides, icing and all the rules. I really dont see much of a difference, in fact to me ice hockey is too much trouble unless the league is going to allow full out hitting and body checking.

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Bobby Ryan used to play roller. I'm 99% sure I used to play against him. He seems to be doing ok in NHL.

Matt Gilroy and Joel Ward played in the same roller league I play in

This isnt true. I stop and start similar to ice.

me too. Many roller skaters never really learn how to or arent encouraged too.

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I just thought of a comment that an old guy said to me long ago, that I think a lot of older ice coaches think. He said "If you play roller hockey, you will wreck your stride and your game will never be the same when you come back to ice."

This was a coach that I respected, but the fact that he could not see the benefits of roller confused me. I took this comment to heart and really concentrated on it for that year. Well, after playing a season in the RHI, I went back to playing ice, I think it was in the ECHL that year. For a skate or 2 I felt a little strange about turning and stopping, but then it all came back and clicked. Not only did I feel way more comfortable with the puck and making better decisions with it, but my stride and legs felt a lot stronger than previous years.

That being said and summarizing, roller is the best trainging for ice hockey players. If you want to improve and play ice better, you should be playing roller hockey for a saeson.

End of story, bring on the comments and debate me on this, I dare you people. Prove me wrong if you can

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I just thought of a comment that an old guy said to me long ago, that I think a lot of older ice coaches think. He said "If you play roller hockey, you will wreck your stride and your game will never be the same when you come back to ice."

This was a coach that I respected, but the fact that he could not see the benefits of roller confused me. I took this comment to heart and really concentrated on it for that year. Well, after playing a season in the RHI, I went back to playing ice, I think it was in the ECHL that year. For a skate or 2 I felt a little strange about turning and stopping, but then it all came back and clicked. Not only did I feel way more comfortable with the puck and making better decisions with it, but my stride and legs felt a lot stronger than previous years.

That being said and summarizing, roller is the best trainging for ice hockey players. If you want to improve and play ice better, you should be playing roller hockey for a saeson.

End of story, bring on the comments and debate me on this, I dare you people. Prove me wrong if you can

I happen to agree that playing inline improved my ice game. That being said, everything doesn't always work the same for everyone. I had a buddy who was a tremendous ice player, who converted to inline for a few years. When he went back to ice, he was just never the same player, skating wise.

What's good for the goose, isn't ALWAYS good for the gander.

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Coming from a guy who's played both (roller at the collegiate level, ice in adult leagues around town for years):

First of all, roller hockey can be a fast game IF it is at higher levels, as has been stated before. Otherwise, ice is usually faster, it's the simple physics of ice having much less friction than a sport court or other roller surface. Of course, either game can be slow depending on the skill level of the people playing. Like I said, I've played both, and ice definitely feels faster to me (and I played on a highly competitive roller team in college).

Roller can make you a better skater from a conditioning standpoint, as there is more resistance when striding, and the skates are generally heavier. HOWEVER roller definitely gives you bad habits when it comes to stopping/starting/transitioning, etc...if you try to switch to ice. Ice hockey gives you a MUCH greater range of skating options, and you are much more agile on an ice surface, for most people at least.

As far as stopping on inlines vs. ice skates, it depends on the player how it's done. Personally, I found the right wheel durometer that allowed me to hockey stop with inline skates, but it still wasn't the exact same thing as on ice. Ice skating requires more finesse in that area. Most people did not attempt a hockey stop, they simply skated through the play or made a quick turn back. Plus, I tore up many a wheel stopping that way! For me, at least, ice skating seems to be much more of a natural way to skate. But, that's just me.

Stickhandling smarts are benefitted by roller hockey as well...you do have to learn more patience with the puck, and also it works your man to man skills more, as there is much more "ice" area open with 4 on 4 hockey. It does teach you how to get open for a pass no matter what position you are in, since there really isn't much dump and chase in roller. However, you have to have softer hands to play well in ice, as the puck will ricochet off your stick like a bullet if you don't...roller guys aren't used to that, as the puck is much easier to control on a roller surface. As for the roller guys keeping their heads down...well, you wouldn't learn to look up much either if you didn't play in a checking league, would you :)? But, as has been truthfully stated already, just a couple of good checks changes that...we all learn that way.

In the end, they both have their good points...but I have to admit I haven't played roller since my college days, and that was 12 years ago!

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I think this topic has been beaten to death since the invention of roller. I love both but can see the arguments for and against. Here are my 2 cents.

RE: One ruining your skills in the other

Skating:

1. Roller to Ice: With the advent of the Rock'r/Vibe/Sprung/Newron we all know the reason why skating in roller doesn't feel like skating on ice. It's mostly the difference in radius. Of course a skater used to hi-lo's (what is that, like a 15 ft radius?) is going to have trouble skating on a 9/10/11/etc. radius on ice.

2. Ice to Roller: Vice versa.

3. Exceptions: People that play both regularly, or can easily switch back and forth.

4. Solution: Those who want to play both but don't fit the above exceptions, try to match the radius of your skates as best you can. Get something like Sprungs, flatten your ice radius, or practice.

5. In a Nutshell: One type of hockey DOES NOT NECESSARILY ruin your skating in the other. Though this is more likely because a) rec players generally don't know about radius or how to fix it, don't have time to practice both, don't want to practice both, may or may not have the natural ability to learn both styles of skating.

6. Personal Experience. I grew up on flat frames and hi-lo's, and have taken power skating lessons for edge control on ice. You play both long enough, you'll adapt. I have friends who are great athletes and never took any kind of lessons and they can skate circles around me. They could adapt. Keep in mind, this isn't everybody.

Re: Stick Skills

1. Handling: I have no doubt roller improves puckhandling purely for the fact there is more time and space due to the 4 on 4, and the tendency of roller players to glide (maybe not at the elite level, but we're talking in general). On the other hand, in roller the puck is lighter and there is more friction. In ice, the puck is heavier and there is less friction. I find there is a different feel.

2. Passing: I don't feel like the above differences are as significant.

3. Shooting: Here, I feel the difference in weight is a factor. The weekend warrior doesn't know about flex and the possible need for different flexes for roller/ice. This maybe an issue at first, but again as kids we all adapted to having only one stick and making it work.

Strategy:

1. 4 on 4 v. 5 on 5: I'm not a coach but I imagine this automatically makes roller have more of a pond hockey feel. That's just my personal opinion.

2. I agree that skating in roller has more gliding, maybe due to the extra time and space and the prevalence of hi-lo = big radius = less turning ability. Some people can or can't adapt to the more hectic pace of ice.

3. Ice is more hectic. This does not mean "faster." Roller players are needlessly offended by this and sometimes don't see the distinction. We don't mean ice players are stronger or faster than roller players. We mean the facts of ice, 5 on 5, 3 zones versus 4 on 4 and 2 half courts naturally means ice gives you less time and space to think /react/move around. Add in the fact that ice skating allows for much quicker/tighter turns equals quicker transition game. The fifth player makes fore checking/back checking a smart option = more pressure. 4 on 4, lends itself to zoning = less chasing around.

Style:

1. Roller is cheaper = More people can play it, thus you get a diversity of personalities.

2. You don't need ice = More accessible in areas w/ no ice rinks; i.e. cities, warm climates = "urban" flavor

3. Ice = more expensive = culture that comes w/ the people that can afford it.

4. Need Ice = you get the culture that comes w/ places that have ice rinks.

5. Ice is a "big 4 sport" = more non-players have heard about it.

6. Roller is not = If you don't play it, you've probably never heard of it = niche sport = like ultimate frisbee

Conclusion:

They are DIFFERENT SPORTS. And 1 is a "style" or "type" of basketball. Team oriented basketball is another type. You take one player and insert them in the other style and they will flounder. It's an apples to oranges argument.

I say let's all enjoy both and to hell w/ whoever looks down on you for whatever reason! :D

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I think this topic has been beaten to death since the invention of roller. I love both but can see the arguments for and against. Here are my 2 cents.

1. Roller to Ice: With the advent of the Rock'r/Vibe/Sprung/Newron we all know the reason why skating in roller doesn't feel like skating on ice. It's mostly the difference in radius. Of course a skater used to hi-lo's (what is that, like a 15 ft radius?) is going to have trouble skating on a 9/10/11/etc. radius on ice.

the ground contact point of all four inline wheels forms a line. therefore hi-lo chassis (except the obsolete vibe chassis) and any other non-suspension type inline chassis does not have an equivalent rocker radius.

however the difference between inline skating and ice skating is not just due to ice skates having rocker. it also has to do with the way wheels interact with solid ground versus how a skate blade interacts with ice.

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you're also not accounting for wheel compression which makes it a tougher call of wheelbase vs steel radius

bottom line from EVERYTHING and EVERY PLAYER I have seen (so this is my opinion, not to be confused with pure fact as we seem to take opinions around here) is if you can play, you can play regardless of ice vs roller. Each one feeds the other with different skill sets. I've said it before and I'll say it again that my area may be the rarity where we have well developed inline and ice, and a lot of the best inline guys are among the best ice guys as well. I see plenty of noobs that can't really skate regardless of what you put them on either way as well.

For a lot of guys that can't transition easily from one to another I'd say it a little technique and a whole lot mental. Let's face it, hockey players are a peculiar athlete with more gear to be fussy over than any other. The ice stride is a little longer, and the play is compressed into zones more. The inline game is more wide open, and the same "looping around" style of skating has been criticism leveled at European ice players for years. At the end of the day either way you're putting a puck in the back of a net. Do it on ice, sportcourt, roll-on, wood floor, concrete or asphalt, the important thing is to just do it and have fun doing it.

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I think this topic has been beaten to death since the invention of roller. I love both but can see the arguments for and against. Here are my 2 cents.

RE: One ruining your skills in the other

Skating:

1. Roller to Ice: With the advent of the Rock'r/Vibe/Sprung/Newron we all know the reason why skating in roller doesn't feel like skating on ice. It's mostly the difference in radius.

I didn't say "completely." I concede that there are lots of other factors that make inline skating different, wheel grip/compression, lack of edges...

Either way the point is that 1) they are very, very different, which explains why so many people have trouble AND 2) yet there are ways to compensate for those differences to a certain degree which explains why others DON'T have trouble.

I'm sorry for my long, post earlier. I guess my point is that we're comparing apples to oranges. The argument as to one hurting the other totally depends on the person.

Either way, I want to re-iterate that I love both sports, recognizes that some skills translate, while others don't.

FWIW my favorite pace/type of play is a mix of both. I like the extra maneuvarabiliity of ice, but I like the more open play of roller. I like the pond hockey feel. As to the differences in stick skills/shooting/passing, I find those differences are either minimal or easy to overcome. :)

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The future of roller hockey and everyone connected to it is in the hands of one company. The NHL. They have the power to stonewall the rinks to death or help nuture the sport as part of their own body. I'll say this is just my opinion, but I doubt it.

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I agree that the NHL is in the best position to do so as they hav more presence and resources than any roller hockey organization, or equipment manufacturer.

Though, I think they tried w/ the NHL Breakout marketing campaign in the '90's when hockey in general was much hotter than it is now.

However, IMHO, the NHL doesn't have much to gain by promoting roller. I hate to keep going back to the analogy because some may not like it, but it would be sort of be like the NBA affiliating itself w/ the And 1 "Franchise", Globetrotters, or playground style basketball in general. Even worse, roller doesn't have a league or team that has as much marketability/revenue generating potential as those two entities.

NHL players aren't going to start playing roller for a ticket price and the star power of the players is the NHL's real leverage in promoting roller. Other than making roller a legitamate part of the regular season, I can't even imagine how that would happen, no causal fan will see it more than a schitck.

40 games on ice, 40 games on wheels followed by best of 7 series' w/ alternating ice/roller?? That would be weeeeeeeeeird and I don't even think anyone would want to see that happen.

A niche sport will only gain legitimacy when 1) enough people play it recreationallly and competetively up to the highest amateur level AND 2) it's marketability makes it attractive enough to draw television audiences regularly and nationally.

This is going to take time to happen if at all.

In the US it's going to have to start w/ kids thinking it's worth playing roller. Maybe USA hockey promotes it or high schools and colleges pick it up as a varsity sport, cracking into the ncaa. That's a long shot but it would need to happen.

International inline needs to get to the point where it gets a serious olympic nod.

In the end, roller won't reach the forefront until more elite athletes find it worthwhile to play i.e. scholarships, then a salary i.e. a career.

It's ironic, it needs to become popular enough to attract the talent to create a nationallly marketable entity, but it takes such an entity to entice players to start, and for priviate or govt' entities to find it profitable enough to build roller rinks/start leagues in the first place.

It's a chicken/egg problem.

P.S. Though I think it would be kinda cool to have an annual "Roller Classic" But I bet it would be tough deciding when to have it and to convince any NHL'er to risk injury in a roller game.

I personally don't think roller will reach ice's popularity level in my lifetime. I'm 28. Of course it'd be great if I were wrong. :)

Quick add on: Maybe an NHL affiliated summer league, but then again, the only reason any hockey player good enough would do it for a shot at a spot on an NHL roster.

Another thing necessary would be a generational star, that CHOOSES roller over ice. Like when Bobby Hull jumped ship for the WHA. It gave them a booster shot in the legitimacy dept.

Imagine if RHI were still around, the economy was stronger and sid/ovi + a few more legit stars jumped leagues? Growth comes from revenues which come from ratings/tic sales/merchanising/advertising. In a nutshell, need a big fan base.

Sorry, I'm rambling and repeating now.

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Again, sorry for the long posts! Even though I'm a long time member I don't post much nowadays unless something really gets my brain going.

Anyhow I think I can sum what it takes for roller to become popular!

It needs to be viewed a profession!

And not just by us, but by people with "social power." i.e. $$$ generally, then power to sway opinions.

Elite educational institutions, charitiable institutions, wealthy commercial institutions OUTSIDE of sports, Gov't.

Approval from people that we measure advancement in life by....parents, coaches, idols, celebrities, hot chicks....

- "Hey little jimmy whaddya wanna be when you grow up?" "Roller hockey player!"

- "Man, that John Doe Roller Player just signed for another 3 years/3million per year."

- "Jeez, these season tix to the Anytown Team just cost me $1,500!!!"

- Hot Chick -- > "I wanna marry/date/schlep a pro roller hockey player." (they're rich and famous)

- President invites national roller champs to white house.

- Generic mom/dad "My boy's goin' to Havahd on a RH scholly, might even have a shot of making the Olympic team."

- "The National Leukemia fund would like to thank XYZ Roller League for ther generous contribution."

- TD Bank North/Chevy/Coors is a proud sponsor of the Boston Hubs!!!!

- Announcer, "And there's Jay-Z, Jack Nicholson, and Mike Modano in the 3rd row at what will surely be a great game 7 between the Blah Blah Bandits vs. the Yadda Yadda Yo Yo's"

P.S. Damn, this post is kinda long too. Sry guys! B)

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the NHL doesn't have much to gain by promoting roller.

Wrong. They have new fan bases to develop in non-traditional markets. With the clear push to move and sustain teams into warmer markets, guess which surface is more readily available and cheaper to maintain? It's not ice. A lot of the newer scores of NHL drafts and young stars grew up playing both, and it's all just playing hockey to them.

NHL players aren't going to start playing roller for a ticket price

Many wouldn't be picking it up for the first time though. Look through lists of the who's who from Narch's past as well as State Wars and Torhs tournaments, and you'll see a decent amount of familiar names. Manny Legace started in the RHI and was an all-star goaltender last season in the NHL.

The facts are pretty simple, professional ice has the history and old money behind it. Comparatively roller is in it's infancy, with "Pro" leagues like AIHL and PIHA resembling the early days of Pro ice where the guys worked normal jobs and played on the side for minimal pay. Ice also has a single governing body. Roller in all honesty is a mess with USAHIL and USARS/AAU not budging to grow the sport beyond themselves. If you really want to read up on it all I suggest going to IHC's boards and not dragging that dead horse around the block again here.

In the end there's a small pool of guys who get paid to play relative to all the players out there. The money is with the NHL, AHL, ECHL, CHL, etc. so that's where the top players end up regardless of where they started. If the issues with Phoenix and Nashville among other non-traditional market teams is any indicator, the NHL can use all the new fans they can get, and from a purely economic scale roller is a much better bet. As I said before, just get people putting a puck in the net with skates on their feet.

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it would be sort of be like the NBA affiliating itself w/ the And 1 "Franchise", Globetrotters, or playground style basketball in general.

The smartest marketing the NBA ever did. Nike Boomed with playgrounds that grew up with the Globetrotters, who's style led the NBA to the flash we now think is common. Basketball is all of basketball, baseball is all of baseball, football is all of football, hockey is ice or you're taking money out of ice. "The Globetrotters" are one of the things missing from ice and less so roller. Quite a few pro players have been asked to form the roller equivilent, by yours truely. Most of them like doing the right stuff and like the idea.

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With regard to college roller hockey, it is becoming more and more popular as the years progress. As of now it is only a club sport and really only Lindenwood gives out scholarships for roller hockey, but the NCRHA (national collegiate roller hockey associations) is looking to become more legitimized and become an NCAA sport eventually. It just takes time and the willingness of its participants. As of now there's about 2100 kids playing college roller hockey and I can only see this number increase as more and more schools have made teams and the fact that these teams have become more popular in recent years. Myself being a player on a college roller hockey team love it and I think you could definitely see it becoming an NCAA sport in the next few years.

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I think ASU being in the final against Lindenwood this year was a huge step, along with other schools making it deep into the tournament that aren't part of the perennial powerhouse schools year in and out.

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