Drilling Step Steel?

[furlanitalia 1]

For stride mechanics? I always thought the whole idea was to make the whole assembly as stiff as possible. Can you elaborate?

I can only imagine that with the driveshaft being composite and really stiff if the boot didn't flex the torque was too great on the steel. Something has to give right?

[TBLfan 25]

For stride mechanics? I always thought the whole idea was to make the whole assembly as stiff as possible. Can you elaborate?

Well look at one of, if not the most popular holder in the NHL the custom+, it's softer than most holders and actually feels spongy under loads.

Almost similar to a whippy stick, it flexes the holder and releases the energy. Also and probably more important it absorbs some impact, like a suspension on a car.

BUT, in reference to the breakage issue. If there's a weaker link in the chain, it's going to give over time.

[JR Boucicaut 3770]

Yes, and for strength. There has to be some sort of flex in the whole assembly (runners/holders) or it will be too rigid and snap.

[rachael7 1]

Well you learn something new every day. Now I'm really glad I asked the question, since it seems I am not completely visualizing the loading on the steel. Have to think about it a little next time I'm on the ice and work on the analysis some more. Perhaps I should just consider the extra weight a training tool... a skate weight, if you will. When I eventually do buy a pair of new, lighter (hopefully!) skates, I'm going to be that much stronger. But if I'm off the ice for six months for shoulder surgery though, as might unfortunately be happening, I'll definitely get bored enough somewhere in that time to give this a whirl.

[dabeechman 0]

Metallurgist said the blades would/should have a C of 40-45 which would make them machinable.

[rachael7 1]

Metallurgist said the blades would/should have a C of 40-45 which would make them machinable.

Yep. The carbide bits I usually spin should get through that without too much fuss. Thank you!

[frankie56 0]

There was a time when top end bicycles were drilled everywhere. However, the big advances in reducing weight came only when new material were introduced. My bet is skate blades will follow the same development path.

[jsykes 35]

Why are we talking about drilling steel. We should all just be using the state of the art materials found in T-Blades and enjoying superlight blades and the performance that comes along with it. :D

[Wolfpack_1986 149]

this thread gave me a nerdgasm.

[jimmy 194]

There was a time when top end bicycles were drilled everywhere. However, the big advances in reducing weight came only when new material were introduced. My bet is skate blades will follow the same development path.

True, that's already happening. First was Hotblades, a high carbon blade with plastic inserts, the Rocket runner, and now the Bauer Fusion. Even STEP is currently working on a composite metal blade. Changes are happening. The big challenge is maintaining strength and longevity of both edge and useful life, not to mention cost.

[rachael7 1]

Why are we talking about drilling steel. We should all just be using the state of the art materials found in T-Blades and enjoying superlight blades and the performance that comes along with it. :D

For what its worth, I think T'Blades actually had the right idea. I tried them and didn't like them, so I'm not defending the product. But I think the failure was not so much due to a bad concept is it was due to their specific implementation of the idea and lack of maturity of the technology. I would be very surprised if we didn't see more blades along those lines in the future.

[Chadd 916]

For what its worth, I think T'Blades actually had the right idea. I tried them and didn't like them, so I'm not defending the product. But I think the failure was not so much due to a bad concept is it was due to their specific implementation of the idea and lack of maturity of the technology. I would be very surprised if we didn't see more blades along those lines in the future.

They were only useful for people that couldn't get a good sharpening in their market. Way too many factors working against them to be a success that had nothing to do with the maturity of the technology.

[zebra_steve 11]

For what its worth, I think T'Blades actually had the right idea. I tried them and didn't like them, so I'm not defending the product. But I think the failure was not so much due to a bad concept is it was due to their specific implementation of the idea and lack of maturity of the technology. I would be very surprised if we didn't see more blades along those lines in the future.

I didn't skate them, but I did handle them... and I really hate the squeaking they make when you stride hard (could be the kids using them don't have them tight enough or something...). I sorta like the idea, but as in everything else, I like what I like not what they want to force on us. I really like the option of grinding my edges to the hollow I want on them (Or maybe at some point an FBV but that has yet to be tried), and dropping maybe $100 a season on runners vs how much for the replacement T-Blades considering I grind my skates once a week - or more. In short, I'm perfectly happy with having an inch of nice hard steel sticking out of my tuuk or cobra.

To use the bicycle analogy again, at one point I was at a level that I could benefit to some extent from the new technology (I was riding 300+ miles a week, and aspired to be a Cat I racer) but the cost\benefit analysis indicated that the benefit was waaay out of proportion to the cost. ie: The cost of the technology coupled with the lower longevity meant that I was better off staying with some of the more "bullet proof" equipment.

Frankie56..... I can remember making swiss cheese out of cranks, chains and chainrings, brake arms..... Probably still have some of the road rash scars from the resulting catastrophic failures.

[rachael7 1]

They were only useful for people that couldn't get a good sharpening in their market. Way too many factors working against them to be a success that had nothing to do with the maturity of the technology.

That was definitely the target market, and was exactly the reason I tried them. Didn't like them at all, so I ended up buying an X01 instead and just sharpening my own. But the concept of a little strip of steel on composite material made a lot of sense. Not the different from Fusion and Rocket Runners. Now Rocket Runners didn't do so well either, but maybe they've found the right combination with the Fusion.

[zebra_steve 11]

That was definitely the target market, and was exactly the reason I tried them. Didn't like them at all, so I ended up buying an X01 instead and just sharpening my own. But the concept of a little strip of steel on composite material made a lot of sense. Not the different from Fusion and Rocket Runners. Now Rocket Runners didn't do so well either, but maybe they've found the right combination with the Fusion.

I understand that the concept for the new Bauer\TUUK runner is aluminum and steel combo? SO, what is the construction? Is the steel portion of the runner machined to take an epoxied in aluminum insert... kinda like an al\steel\al laminate to lighten things up in the "dead area" between the mounting teardrops is too low to be usable for sharpening.....

As for creating a product for those that aren't near a capable sharpener, that's been around for years (but you still needed to have "someone" to put a good edge on them for you).... Ever since the Perfecta blades and the old CCM ProLite II's with the external bolts through the sides of the mounts. Bauer caught on when the factory drilled the soles of the COMPS but it was a royal PITA to get a socket onto the front nut - hence the hook and rear nut on the TUUK LS models. Now pretty much every mount out there is capable of quick replacement as long as you have a set of runners ready to go. Hell, I carry a set of sharpened runners and tools to swap them out in my ref bag 'cuz I don't trust anyone else to grind my blades.

[zebra_steve 11]

Deleted.... double post...

[rachael7 1]

I understand that the concept for the new Bauer\TUUK runner is aluminum and steel combo? SO, what is the construction? Is the steel portion of the runner machined to take an epoxied in aluminum insert... kinda like an al\steel\al laminate to lighten things up in the "dead area" between the mounting teardrops is too low to be usable for sharpening.....

That's the basic idea, although it did not appear to be epoxied together. Looked like the steel was formed in a sheet as thick as the blade is tall, with a area machined out in the middle that was filled with aluminum. The two metals appeared to be fused at the molecular level, welded basically - difficult historically with AL and FE, but I've seen it done in recent years in other applications. The composite sheet could then be sliced into blades like slicing a loaf of bread, followed by the normal grinding and finishing. Pure speculation on my part, and I expect someone in the know will probably correct me shortly, but that's how it looked to me. The net result is that a good third of the blade, the useless part at the top between the mounts, ends up being made of aluminum while the remainder is steel. Not sure how much that AL really does structurally though - looks like it's main purpose is just so the blade will mount in a regular sharpening jig.

[zebra_steve 11]

Sounds really labor intensive vs just cutting the blades out of the sheet steel and heat treating them.... The more I think about this, the more I keep falling back to K.I.S.S. - just a lot of effort for marginal performance gain?

[jsykes 35]

Its a two piece runner. Its aluminum on the top which has, as Bauer describes it, rivets and then is bonded with epoxy to the steel part. Its not fused in the sense of making the two materials "one." Bauer says fused in their literature, but its more of just a way to say its two pieces made into one. From their catalog:

stainless steel and lightweight aluminum – then fused together by epoxy and rivets

This is why I worry a bit about the longevity of the runner. Aluminum and steel expand and contract under temp changes at very different rates. I'm thinking that after some time of hot cars to cold rinks and back and forth, etc etc, could cause that epoxy bonding to start to give.

For a pro that replaces his runners every few weeks or month, not a big deal. For a recreational player that might not change a runner for a full season or more, those temp cycles could take their toll.

[rachael7 1]

Wow. Well at least I was right about being corrected shortly :) Seriously though, that sounds really iffy and I suspect we'll be writing about the Fusion in the 'duds' thread before too long.

[zebra_steve 11]

I would be more worried about the dis-similar metals and condensation causing some sort of galvanic corrosion - or just moisture getting into the joint and the steel rusting and eventually getting loose. Epoxy can be a wonderful thing... engineered to be strong and flexible. The epoxy between the two metals may just absorb and mitigate the differences in expansion and contraction...... The Al is probably easier to work with and cheaper than doing the same thing with carbon fiber. The CF may be a bit stiffer than the Al which kinda brings us full circle to where we were discussing the stress issues.

For me.... the long term issues are not a consideration as I go through a set of runners in 6 months or so....