Bob Probert Dead at 45

[RadioGaGa 162]

http://www.thespec.com/news/article/495648--probert-had-degenerative-brain-disease-report

[NuggyBuggy 0]

All those punches in all those fights people remember so fondly were what killed the guy.

[lampliter87 8]

That's not what killed him... the heart failure due to the blocked artery was.

Sad news in any case. I feel like the severity of concussions, and head injuries in general, is going to be truly understood in the next 5 years... and it will be worse than we thought.

[jds 20]

We are just starting to discover the devastating effects of concussions and post-concussion syndrome. Dave Duerson of the NFL was so depressed and suffering from dementia he suspected was due to numerous concussions in his playing days that he shot himself in the chest so he could donate his brain for research on chronic traumatic encephalopathy which is what was found in Probert's brain. Contact sports promote this warrior image that is leading to catastrophic head injuries. It's not the elbow pads, the helmets and the fighting so much as the attitude around how to deal with the injury. Look at Grabovski. He should not have played after the first hit by Chara yet continued even after a second hit. That culture needs to change. Bobby Baun is one thing but a damaged brain doesn't always heal as well as an ankle. Keith Primeau, forced to retire after numerous concussions, and another one who has donated his brain for concussion research, admitted that with all his struggles with post-concussion syndrome and knowing what he knows now he would still not do anything different if he could go back in time-that is how strong this culture is ingrained. We need to start teaching our kids to stop putting their tough-guy image before their brains.

[goblue9280 33]

That's not what killed him... the heart failure due to the blocked artery was.

Sad news in any case. I feel like the severity of concussions, and head injuries in general, is going to be truly understood in the next 5 years... and it will be worse than we thought.

Not to mention the years of documented substance abuse by Probie. I wouldn't be surprised if that amplified the brain injuries or at the very least inhibited full recovery (if that even exists) from concussions. Regardless, Probie was that rare type of person that no matter how many times he screwed up, you were always compelled to give him another chance... because deep down you knew he was all heart.

[jds 20]

Not to mention the years of documented substance abuse by Probie. I wouldn't be surprised if that amplified the brain injuries or at the very least inhibited full recovery (if that even exists) from concussions. Regardless, Probie was that rare type of person that no matter how many times he screwed up, you were always compelled to give him another chance... because deep down you knew he was all heart.

Cocaine abuse can apparently also lead to chronic traumatic encephalopathy so it may be hard to tell if it was the concussion, the drugs or a combo or both.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Cocaine abuse can apparently also lead to chronic traumatic encephalopathy so it may be hard to tell if it was the concussion, the drugs or a combo or both.

That is simply a false statement. If you could show me the medical report that states that please?

The only way to get this horrible condition is from hits to the head and head trauma. That being said the recovery would be hampered by substance abuse but does not cause it!

[dsjunior1388 81]

We are just starting to discover the devastating effects of concussions and post-concussion syndrome. Dave Duerson of the NFL was so depressed and suffering from dementia he suspected was due to numerous concussions in his playing days that he shot himself in the chest so he could donate his brain for research on chronic traumatic encephalopathy which is what was found in Probert's brain. Contact sports promote this warrior image that is leading to catastrophic head injuries. It's not the elbow pads, the helmets and the fighting so much as the attitude around how to deal with the injury. Look at Grabovski. He should not have played after the first hit by Chara yet continued even after a second hit. That culture needs to change. Bobby Baun is one thing but a damaged brain doesn't always heal as well as an ankle. Keith Primeau, forced to retire after numerous concussions, and another one who has donated his brain for concussion research, admitted that with all his struggles with post-concussion syndrome and knowing what he knows now he would still not do anything different if he could go back in time-that is how strong this culture is ingrained. We need to start teaching our kids to stop putting their tough-guy image before their brains.

Whats very interesting is when you look at the last few years, with concussions to Bergeron, Lilja, Savard, Perron and Crosby that kept these guys out several months, you wonder how many concussions like that did we see skating around in a haze a week or two later back in the 80s and 90s. I remember seeing Jeremy Roenick say he had 4 confirmed concussions but he felt the number was closer to 10 or 11.

[wrangler 157]

Whats very interesting is when you look at the last few years, with concussions to Bergeron, Lilja, Savard, Perron and Crosby that kept these guys out several months, you wonder how many concussions like that did we see skating around in a haze a week or two later back in the 80s and 90s. I remember seeing Jeremy Roenick say he had 4 confirmed concussions but he felt the number was closer to 10 or 11.

Don't forget Peter Mueller. He's still not back; must be close to a year.

[jds 20]

That is simply a false statement. If you could show me the medical report that states that please?

The only way to get this horrible condition is from hits to the head and head trauma. That being said the recovery would be hampered by substance abuse but does not cause it!

There have been some studies showing a relationship between cocaine ingestion and the increase in TAU protein which is linked to CTE. I chose the word "apparently" because the research in that area continues and I don't claim to be an expert. Here's one study from China.

http://www.chinaphar.com/1671-4083/24/512.pdf

Given that, "simply false" may be too absolute a description.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

That's not what killed him... the heart failure due to the blocked artery was.

Sad news in any case. I feel like the severity of concussions, and head injuries in general, is going to be truly understood in the next 5 years... and it will be worse than we thought.

You're right, I misremembered how he died. Having said that, guys with this condition don't usually die from it, at least not directly. They might die from other causes, like a depression-induced suicide, or from some other causes. Or they might be "lucky" and live their life as a poverty-stricken vegetable, like Mike Webster did. It is known that these athletes tend to live much abbreviated lives.

Still, there's a chilling photo that the LA Times ran today. It shows a battered and bloodied Probert in the middle of a fight and a kid with a ridiculous smile right behind. And here I am trying to teach my 5-year old kid that it's not all right to beat up other kids at school. Sad, indeed.

[jds 20]

You're right, I misremembered how he died. Having said that, guys with this condition don't usually die from it, at least not directly. They might die from other causes, like a depression-induced suicide, or from some other causes. Or they might be "lucky" and live their life as a poverty-stricken vegetable, like Mike Webster did. It is known that these athletes tend to live much abbreviated lives.

Still, there's a chilling photo that the LA Times ran today. It shows a battered and bloodied Probert in the middle of a fight and a kid with a ridiculous smile right behind. And here I am trying to teach my 5-year old kid that it's not all right to beat up other kids at school. Sad, indeed.

That photo says a lot about why fighting will stay in the game. Ancient Rome here we come.

[Powerfibers 8]

The local sports radio guys were chatting with Rob Ray about it, and he sounded a bit concerned about his own health in light of all the fights he has been in. Scary.

[jds 20]

The local sports radio guys were chatting with Rob Ray about it, and he sounded a bit concerned about his own health in light of all the fights he has been in. Scary.

The real issue is the lack of awareness around hits to the head coupled with the tough guy mentality that permeates many sports. I just heard Don Cherry on the radio this morning bragging about how tough hockey players are compared to baseball players because he remembers skating with open welts on his ankles in training camp and how he just soldiered on. Yes, hockey is a tough sport and many players are tough and can have dedication and perserverance but we are inadvertently lauding stupidity. Crosby is one dedicated player and toughs it out but he showed a lack of smarts, in my opinion, by continuing to take to the ice in future games after that Steckel hit. Same goes for Grabovski. Though I suspect they would both be labelled as pussies by some followers and pundits in the sport.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

There have been some studies showing a relationship between cocaine ingestion and the increase in TAU protein which is linked to CTE. I chose the word "apparently" because the research in that area continues and I don't claim to be an expert. Here's one study from China.

http://www.chinaphar.com/1671-4083/24/512.pdf

Given that, "simply false" may be too absolute a description.

I to am not a Dr. However i do sit on the board at the CSA as well as work with Dr.Tator at Toronto Western on this subject.

The amount and use of cocaine in the person being discussed was not "cronik" as stated in the report you have shown.

I am ot hear to argue the point yes cocaine or any other drug caffeine, alcohol are not good for people with head injuries.

Myself well I have had in the region of 10 plus concussions. Some from sports and some from epilepsy. So I do have a fair amount of knowledge on this subject.

[Chadd 916]

I am ot hear to argue the point yes cocaine or any other drug caffeine, alcohol are not good for people with head injuries.

I found caffeine helped with my post concussion symptoms.

[jds 20]

I to am not a Dr. However i do sit on the board at the CSA as well as work with Dr.Tator at Toronto Western on this subject.

The amount and use of cocaine in the person being discussed was not "cronik" as stated in the report you have shown.

I am ot hear to argue the point yes cocaine or any other drug caffeine, alcohol are not good for people with head injuries.

Myself well I have had in the region of 10 plus concussions. Some from sports and some from epilepsy. So I do have a fair amount of knowledge on this subject.

I was reacting to the " absolutely false" characterization. My point was that the jury is still out. The entire study of concussions seems to be constantly growing with new information.

You are lucky to work with Dr. Tator. He is quite remarkable. It always astounds me how some hockey pundits vilify him merely because he wants to protect peoples' brains. Doug MacLean on Sportsnet seems to have a particular hate-on for him.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

I was reacting to the " absolutely false" characterization. My point was that the jury is still out. The entire study of concussions seems to be constantly growing with new information.

You are lucky to work with Dr. Tator. He is quite remarkable. It always astounds me how some hockey pundits vilify him merely because he wants to protect peoples' brains. Doug MacLean on Sportsnet seems to have a particular hate-on for him.

I will have to have a chat with Mr Maclean next time I see him in the store...LOL

Hes a great guy.

If you go on TSN and search the videos from Think First and Helmet fitting that the video I did with TSN.

Hoping it made a larger impact but it seems it hasnt.

Well not yet anyway.

And Dr. Tator is a great guy he actually softened a little to the game and how its played.