Issues with perforated/scalloped runners?

[Captain Sane 2]

I have a pair of RBK 8K (2009) on layaway, and I plan on picking them up next week. The one thing that worries me is that they have those scalloped runners and I've always heard that they (at least used to) have issues with cracking and breaking, and a lot of people I've talked to has broken them. Is this still a problem? I personally have never used this type of runner so I don't know how much they benefit the skater, and personally I'm not sure they're worth the risk if breakage is still an issue.

Also, and this may be a dumb question, but if I decide to replace the runners with traditional ones, would the store I bought the skates from (Perani's, BTW) swap them out with something from their stock at a lower price? I mean, technically I would be trading a better product for a lesser one (kind of, anyway). Probably wishful thinking, I know.

EDIT: Turns out they will let you swap out new steel from their stock, I was pretty surprised.

[chippa13 1844]

I never had problems with the blades breaking, however, I found that they flexed much more than the solid steel runners and I had to shorten my profile radius to compensate.

[SolarWind 23]

I never had problems with the blades breaking, however, I found that they flexed much more than the solid steel runners and I had to shorten my profile radius to compensate.

I also found that they 'chatter' more on hard stops due to steel flexing. I figured it's a known issue since Bauer used the aluminum to fill up the top part of the runner on TotalOnes, rather than leaving it empty as they used to back in XXX days...

Curious: are there any pros on the perforated steel?

[greech 4]

I also found that they 'chatter' more on hard stops due to steel flexing. I figured it's a known issue since Bauer used the aluminum to fill up the top part of the runner on TotalOnes, rather than leaving it empty as they used to back in XXX days...

Curious: are there any pros on the perforated steel?

The pro is weight savings. Suposedly, eliminating weight from the end of the stride makes a big difference, but to me, it is just a few grams here, a few there.

[TBLfan 25]

The more you weigh the more issues you will have with scalloped steel.

[goaliemanshark 6]

The more you weigh the more issues you will have with scalloped steel.

+1

I am a fat dude, and my Easton perforated steel was TERRIBLE for me. Switched to step steel, and im much happier!

[bob_flip 0]

I have never seen broken scalloped runners, but I saw a broken solid steel runner, after one of a big slap shot. That caused by poor quality probably.

[Captain Sane 2]

The more you weigh the more issues you will have with scalloped steel.

While I have been losing some weight recently, I'm still north of 225 so looks like I should be looking at getting different runners. What size should I be looking for with a 9.5 E skate?

[greech 4]

The more you weigh the more issues you will have with scalloped steel.

TBL, I don't often ask questions, but you seem to really know your stuff. Would the parabolic be the same? For me specifically, I'm light but have a really powerful stride, when I first got on parabolic it felt like I was going to break the steel.

[TBLfan 25]

It flexes, that's really the issue. Clicking, chattering, etc...

If it becomes an issue, replace it. If it's not an issue.. then it is not an issue.

[jimmy 194]

Just to clarify some things, all stainless steel can break, be it solid, perfs, scalloped, Fusion, parabolic, LPS, all of them. Every day someone comes in with a broken runner. Some perfs of some brands break more than others and that's more of a quality of steel issue. The Italian steel was the worse. The RBk's scalloped steel is very good and holds up pretty well until the height is sharpened low, then it can break easier than say a solid runner. When it gets that low, you prob should be replacing it anyway. I wouldn't be nervous using the perfs, the odds of it breaking are pretty much the same as the others. Make sure the hardware is tight because with it any skate if the runner is loose, it can break easier. The Step steel is a superior quality steel to OEM's. Although it can break, occurrences are much rarer that with OEM's.

[Captain Sane 2]

Well I guess it's more of an issue of familiarity than anything, plus I plan on getting them profiled right away and I didn't want to pay the $30 or whatever to do that then find out I didn't like the scalloped runners because they flex too much or something. Like I said in my edit of the OP, Perani's said they'd exchange them for solid runners at no cost so I figure I'll just stick with what I know. I'm stubborn like that.

It's good to know that there's not a huge issue with breakage anymore, most of the stories I have heard (or seen in a few cases) were from back when Bauer first came out with them (I think when the Vapor XXX came out) and it made me concerned with the perforated steel ever since.

Also, what do you mean by OEMs?

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_equipment_manufacturer

[SolarWind 23]

The pro is weight savings. Suposedly, eliminating weight from the end of the stride makes a big difference, but to me, it is just a few grams here, a few there.

I think you might have misunderstood the point I was making: of course comparing with the solid runner the aluminum/steel combo of TotalOnes weights less & this indeed was what the designers were trying to achieve.

But a perforated or parabolic steel would weight even less (since obviously empty space weights nothing & aluminum weights something), so Bauer could do that, but the point was that they have had done that already & it didn't workout that well due to the issues discussed in this thread.

So just to reiterate: for the purposes of this discussion I was referring to the fact that Bauer has decided to fill the holes rather then leaving them empty - that's all.

and I completely agree with TLB & others - the heavier you get the worse non-solid runners perform.

[burrn 0]

I think you might have misunderstood the point I was making: of course comparing with the solid runner the aluminum/steel combo of TotalOnes weights less & this indeed was what the designers were trying to achieve.

But a perforated or parabolic steel would weight even less (since obviously empty space weights nothing & aluminum weights something), so Bauer could do that, but the point was that they have had done that already & it didn't workout that well due to the issues discussed in this thread.

So just to reiterate: for the purposes of this discussion I was referring to the fact that Bauer has decided to fill the holes rather then leaving them empty - that's all.

and I completely agree with TLB & others - the heavier you get the worse non-solid runners perform.

Believe it or not, the LS fusions are lighter than perf LS2.

[SolarWind 23]

Believe it or not, the LS fusions are lighter than perf LS2.

I can belive it considering that perf LS2 didn't actually have a lot of material removed (holes were pretty tiny), how about the parabolic steel - it had a fairly sizable part taken out off the top?

in either case I didn't go into a lot of details there, but given the fact that fusion runners are structurally sounds due to aluminum filling up the gap, Bauer could make the aluminum part much bigger (it's almost half the blade) then what the empty hole could potentially be so that's an added benefit of using this approach.

[jimmy 194]

I can belive it considering that perf LS2 didn't actually have a lot of material removed (holes were pretty tiny), how about the parabolic steel - it had a fairly sizable part taken out off the top?

in either case I didn't go into a lot of details there, but given the fact that fusion runners are structurally sounds due to aluminum filling up the gap, Bauer could make the aluminum part much bigger (it's almost half the blade) then what the empty hole could potentially be so that's an added benefit of using this approach.

It's not about the "holes" it's about the quality an make up and tempering of the steel. Easton's are good quality, rarely break as compared to some other manufacturer.

[NextBobbyOrr 0]

Already answered...my bad.

[burrn 0]

And even if it's "solid", aluminum would flex more than steel, so would the runner.

(because steel is much harder than aluminum)

I personally haven't used the fusions yet, but a friend that bought the TO said the runner feels different especially when doing stops, which would probably mean they tend to "chatter"(as TBL says) at least compared to normal LS. Probably not as much as perf though.