golf questions

[sickwilly 37]

I did some searching, but didn't find anything.

It seems like there are a lot of golfers on here, so I thought I'd ask for a few opinions.

I'm considering dropping down a flex with my golf driver. (X Stiff to Stiff). I'm pretty sure that I swing hard enough to make it appropriate to use the X flex. When I used Stiff flex previously, most of my drives were slicing. I'm not sure if this was caused by head lag in addition to poor form (I'm certain of the poor form part). I'm bogey to double-bogey golfer. I can drive the ball quite well when I strike it right (Consistency is a big problem - I should probably look into getting lessons). I find that I slice less with an X flex. I'm also less bad/out-of-control than when I used a stiff driver shaft before.

Has anyone tried something similar (or gone from stiff to regular)? I'm wondering what it is likely to do to my distance and especially my control.

I have also wondered how cold temperature affects ball flight/distance, etc.

Thanks in advance for any input!

[EBondo 233]

I went from stiff to regular. I had been using a generic brand for a while, but went down to a regular flex Nike driver, and noticed less of a slice for sure. However, to get the rest of the slice in my shot out, I think I need to change my swinging technique. I have noticed my drives to be a lot longer though. Before I was hitting 210 as an average, now I'm up to 240-250 consistently. But I rely on my short game to make me a par-bogey golfer.

[Gummer12 134]

With golf, it might Not be the flex that is the problem. Might be your hands are coming through the ball slower than your hips. Like you said, go have a lesson and have them work on your swing technique. From there the pro can recommend if you need to stiffen or soften your flex rating or if you're right on. As for temperatures, a Warm golf ball will travel farther than a cold one, and same for air temperature. Cold air is thicker and more condensed so the ball has to push through more of it where as warm air is thinner and has less of it for the ball to push through. A little trick my old golf coach showed us for fall golf was when in between holes stick the ball under your armpit as you head to the next hole.

[chk hrd 164]

most amatuers can't use an X-stiff shaft. There are alot of things that cause a slice; your hands may be to far ahead at impact, feet are to open, dropping shoulder, swinging outside in, etc.

Have a teaching pro give you some lesson (not a friend). It will pay off for you.

[SouthpawTRK 1]

Generally players that are using an x-flex shaft have a fairly fast and smooth swing. Some x-flex shafts (for driver) require at club head speed that may start 110 to 120 mph. Sometimes there are players that have slightly slower swings that use x-flex shafts, but because their swing has a poor tempo, they like the x-flex because of how the shaft torques due to a poor swing.

With a stiffer shaft, you should see a bit more control, but may see a slight loss in distance. If you play a softer shaft, then you may see an increase in distance, but a loss in control. If a person is truly slicing the ball, it can be based on an outside to inside swing path, your hands not turning over at the proper time, poor stance and a open face.

You should see a golf professional, but not necessarily for a lesson. Rather ask around at your local course to see if the golf pro performs swing evaluations. The evaluation will hopefully be recorded on high speed video, so that you can see your mistakes. The high speed video is fairly critical since a lot of people can learn from what they see and not what they hear. Obviously you know how to golf, the evaluation will show you what's wrong and then the lessons can follow to tighten up the swing and make the necessary corrections.

I'm sure that temperature could affect golf ball flight/distance if the temperature levels were really severe. On Titleist's website, they used to have a link that mentioned that in general temperature does not affect golf ball flight/distance.

Hopefully this is helpful

[sickwilly 37]

Thanks for all of the suggestions/feedback. I'll try to incorporate a little bit of them when I play again.

I'd love to be able to set up a few lessons, but I live in a pretty isolated place. I'd love to get some swing/video analysis, but that would probably take 3+ hours of driving each way.

I think that I'm guilty of dropping my left shoulder (swinging righty), not getting my hips through, and using my arms more than I should. I'm also fairly sure that my stance/address sucks. The only coaching I've had has been from a book by Ben Hogan and some tips that more experienced players have given me.

Again, I really appreciate the help. I suppose that even if I stick with an X flex (which has been the best for me so far), the Stiff will come in handy soon. 39 this month and not getting any stronger, faster, or more flexible.

Any suggestions for good drivers at a reasonable cost? I've been toying with getting a stiff flex Nickent 4DX 9 degree or a TM Burner '09, 9.5 degree in stiff flex. My favorite driver so far has been the MacGregor MT 460 9.5 X flex with a Purple Ice shaft.

[Chadd 916]

When I was playing regularly my driver swing speed was 121 and never used more than an S flex. You might want to slow your swing down a bit if you can't control it at your current speed. Consistency is more important than power.

[SouthpawTRK 1]

Well, my dad is 70 and still out drives me whenever we play golf; his technique is much better than my by a mile.

Speed doesn't always dictate the flex of the shaft and sometimes a shaft's flex isn't always what it appears to be. Some companies like Graphite Design will have a stiffer tip flex, but have a slightly softer shaft butt flex. Some people that have a tour level swing speed (120+ mph) don't always need an x-flex due to the fact that their swing has an even tempo.

It may be hard to find an x-flex in a golf shop since it's a flex that isn't really that common in most retail/pro shops. I would check out deals on the web from the big chain stores. Be careful of buying off of ebay, the amount of counterfeit clubs is sickening.

[shotty 7]

I can't stand eBay for anything golf related.

even if it's not a counterfeit, the condition is never as soon as it's rated

[TheGasman 0]

Any suggestions for good drivers at a reasonable cost? I've been toying with getting a stiff flex Nickent 4DX 9 degree or a TM Burner '09, 9.5 degree in stiff flex. My favorite driver so far has been the MacGregor MT 460 9.5 X flex with a Purple Ice shaft.

You cant go wrong with the Nickent stuff and it can be had pretty cheap now that they are not around.

Chadd said it best, ill take consistency over power. I would rather find 90% of the fairways and be a mid iron out then spraying it everywhere. I used to be like that.

[WSjo22 1]

What's your tempo and first move out of your backswing like? My swing speed with the driver puts me in between a S and XS but I go with XS with a stiff tip and low torque because I have a quick first move out of my backswing and with anything other than what I use I get to much lag and the club head torques open and leaves everything right.... As far as people saying change your techniques and everything I'm kind of the opposite. If you can repeat the same swing everytime whether it's fundamentally right or not you can adjust your clubs around it and see better results. I tried to totally re-work my swing when I first started and nothing worked so I found something I could repeat everytime I swung and adjusted my clubs around it and I've seen amazing results for me can shoot from low 70's-80's depending on the short game but that's a whole different story hahaha

[Chadd 916]

I would rather find 90% of the fairways and be a mid iron out then spraying it everywhere. I used to be like that.

I haven't been playing much so my driver is pretty much useless. I've gone to my 4 iron off the tee and I'm in the middle of the fairway about 230 yards every time. Sucks that eagles are out of the question on par 5s but I can live with that.

[Chappie 0]

Let me see if I can help. Right now I'm in college and am considering going into the PGM (pro golf management) program for a PGA teaching certification.

First, what is your swing speed, and have you ever been Oma lunch monitor/sim? If so, what are you spin numbers (not just side spin, but actual spin).

The reason shafts flex out the way they do is because of spin, not swing speed. While swing speed directly reflects spin, they are not necessarily mutually exclusive, as a golfer who hits up on the ball with their driver and swings 120mph will have less spin then the golfer who hits down on the ball with a 110-15mph swing speed.

Now, obviously someone who swings at 90mph can not and should not swing an extra stiff flex shaft.

Next question: what shaft do you have? Not all shafts play to flex. What I mean by this is that there is no universal industry standard for shaft flexes. What grafalloy considers stiff aldila may consider regular, etc. The only way to really regulate this as players is by cpm measuring (which most clubfitters should be able to do). Why I ask this is that you may in fact fit into an XS shaft in some cases and an S in others. That's the way it os with people who are on the cusp with their swig speeds. This is why spin numbers are so important.

Also, while many amatuers don't swing anything higher then a regular flex, don't let that sway you from the idea of extra stiff shafts. I know many hacks who hit the crap out of the ball and just can't put together good rounds (either because they dont think or they can't translate their distance into their short game). Hitting it long doesn't make you a tour player, technique and consistency does.

If you can, post a video of your swing and I'll see what I can do in terms of pointing out any observations. You need a vid from down the line and face on. I can also point you in the direction of some great golfing communities on the web if you're interested. :)

Since late high school I fell in love with the game and I love talking, playing, competing and doing anything golf related. The sport is as techniquelly diverse as hockey, in fact more so, and there's a lot of information that amateurs don't often get because it's not readily available. I know for me, it was a real journey teaching myself how to play, but it was one of the most rewarding ones I've ever had.

Anyway, like I said, post a vid and I can help you out technique wise, but trying to diagnose a swing fault without seeing it first hand can sometimes do a lot more harm than good.

[TheGasman 0]

I haven't been playing much so my driver is pretty much useless. I've gone to my 4 iron off the tee and I'm in the middle of the fairway about 230 yards every time. Sucks that eagles are out of the question on par 5s but I can live with that.

Haha, well dont feel too bad because your 4 iron is about what I average with my driver. I only get eagle chances when the wind comes into play, im just not very long off the tee anymore. I focus on my wedges and putting to make up for it.

[GoBucky 0]

Unless you are a tour pro, you dont swing hard enough to need stiff. Id suggest going to a golf pro and getting fitted to see what shaft you need. Likely you will find that they'll tell you that you dont have the clubhead speed to need anything more than regular flex.

Im a 12.3 handicap and all of my clubs are regular flex (Drive is a Fujikura Motore regular flex, 3-wood and hybrid is Mizuno regular flex, my irons are True Temper S300 regular and my wedges are True Temper wedge). I dont recall what my clubhead speed is, but my driver is 10.5* and I hit it about 275 yards dead straight or sometimes with a slight little draw; so Ive got some decent clubhead speed going on.

[noodle3872 40]

Good lord, some of you guys have no idea about golf fitting. This notion that swing speed is the end all be all is crap! There are dozens of variables that come into play when fitting a golfer for a shaft. There are static measurements (eg: wrist to floor and hand size), dynamic measurements (eg: swing speed and swing tempo), the golfer's ability and the golfer's preference as to what they feel the shaft doing during their swing. Good repeatable swing fundamentals make fitting much easier on the fitter.

I play to a single digit handicap. I have a swing speed of 107 mph with the driver when swinging out of my shoes. When I swing conservatively, I have a swing speed between 98-102 mph. I have been fit by a gentleman that does fittings on the PGA Tour and Champions Tour. After watching my swing and checking the launch monitor, I was fit for an extra stiff due to the way I transition from back swing to my down swing. I load the shaft hard in the transition. The extra stiff flex also brought my launch angle closer to optimal and my back spin closer to optimal as well. But I felt the shaft had no feel so we tried a Stiff flex tipped 3/4 of an inch. The launch angle and spin numbers were a shade higher than the X-stiff numbers that the difference in yardage was negligable. But the feel of the shaft was waaaay better. This is the set-up I went with.

When it comes to irons, I say go a bit stiffer than you think you need. Irons are about accuracy and a stiffer shaft will cost a bit of distance by accuracy should be better.

But most important is to get a lesson. A teaching pro will do wonders for your game!

Mike

[sickwilly 37]

Wow... thanks again for all of the suggestions. Quite a bit to filter through.

I know I need to get some professional help for this to truly solve my golf issues. Chadd + Gasman - I agree that I should probably try to me more smooth and controlled. I guess I enjoy the rush of the great drive or the hero shot so much that I often pass up on the safe/smart play. I know it sounds stupid, but I'm really not all that worried about how poorly I score during a round. Maybe that's part of what keeps me playing. I'm more excited by a good score on a few holes than my overall score for the round (if that makes any sense).

I live in an rural, isolated area (with a short golf season) where I don't think any of those kind of resources are readily available. There isn't even a pro at my club. Apparently there's somebody who comes up from Bangor, Me once in a while for lessons. I haven't been able to line anything up due to my work schedule and the guy not being around much (although I'm hoping to next season). I'm guessing that the closest swing monitor would be there, Quebec, or Fredericton, all about 3-4 hours away. As far as I know, it would probably be the same deal to get properly fitted. I also feel that I should be prepared to buy clubs from the fitter when I'm ready to go that route. Financially, that's just not in the cards for me right now. I was basically looking to see if it might be an idea to try something used and reasonable on ebay. I definitely try to stay away from the biggest names on ebay, so I don't run into something counterfeit. I've mainly been looking at the Nickent 4DX or another MacGregor MT 460 in a stiff flex. (Right now, I'm using the MT with an X Flex Graphite Design Purple Ice).

@Chappie - I really appreciate the offer to analyze my swing. Like you mentioned, I think that I probably fall into the category you mentioned - a hack who can sometimes hit the crap out of the ball. I definitely have a hard time stringing good shots together. I usually have one per hole that keeps my scores from getting really ugly. I may not yo get video anytime soon, since my golf season is about over. It also means getting out there with my buddy that can get the footage on her camera. If I'm able to get video (and you're still willing), I'll PM you.

@WSjo22 - I hear you on the short game. My biggest weaknesses are the short irons/wedges. I'm not really sure how to answer your question about my tempo/1st. I think all of it's pretty fast, probably too fast and herky-jerky. I really don't know, though.

I'm leaning toward keeping the driver that I'm using and using some birthday money to get something used in a Stiff flex. Even if it's a total failure, I won't have wasted much money. I suppose what I really need to do is make the lesson happen and if I can swing the $$$ for new clubs, get them fitted the right way when the time comes.

Thanks for all of the input, everyone.

[Chappie 0]

I'm always willing, you can even post it up here and I'll notice it.

What I'd recommend if I were you is going to a golf store (golf galaxy, golfsmith, roger dunn, whatever is in your area that has a simulator and if possible, a launch monitor) hit some shots with a comparable driver to yours, or if possible yours, and remember these numbers:

Swing speed, spin, launch angle, angle of attack (or angle of descent, different monitors call it different things) and ball speed. Also, your driver's static loft.

If you really like the feel of your driver, you can simply buy a new (or used) shaft and have it installed instead of buying a brand new stick. I experiment with new shafts all the time, and now with clubs like the R9 and its interchangeable shaft abilities, it makes changing shafts as using a screw driver. They also go fro extremely cheap on ebay too.

[sickwilly 37]

I'm always willing, you can even post it up here and I'll notice it.

What I'd recommend if I were you is going to a golf store (golf galaxy, golfsmith, roger dunn, whatever is in your area that has a simulator and if possible, a launch monitor) hit some shots with a comparable driver to yours, or if possible yours, and remember these numbers:

Swing speed, spin, launch angle, angle of attack (or angle of descent, different monitors call it different things) and ball speed. Also, your driver's static loft.

If you really like the feel of your driver, you can simply buy a new (or used) shaft and have it installed instead of buying a brand new stick. I experiment with new shafts all the time, and now with clubs like the R9 and its interchangeable shaft abilities, it makes changing shafts as using a screw driver. They also go fro extremely cheap on ebay too.

Much appreciated! I really do like the one I've currently got. I paid something like $35 for mine used, then re-shafted with a shaft I bought earlier. With any luck, I could get another used one with a S flex for less than a new shaft would cost. How are you liking the R9 overall? I had also toyed with the idea of a Nickent Evolver setup. I like the Nickent 3DXRC irons that I have pretty well. It that the same kind of system? (Nice pickup on your CCM gloves, BTW).

[Chappie 0]

Much appreciated! I really do like the one I've currently got. I paid something like $35 for mine used, then re-shafted with a shaft I bought earlier. With any luck, I could get another used one with a S flex for less than a new shaft would cost. How are you liking the R9 overall? I had also toyed with the idea of a Nickent Evolver setup. I like the Nickent 3DXRC irons that I have pretty well. It that the same kind of system? (Nice pickup on your CCM gloves, BTW).

I'm a big fan of the R9 line. I actually play the Superdeep and am about to shaft it up with a whiteboard. The original R9 was actually too much of a players club, and I don't think taylormade accounted for that, and it lead to an all together average early release and gives people a sort of luke warm feel over all for the brand, but one great thing that came from that was the variety of heads that were released. A club fitter can literally precisely put you into a head that fits almost perfectly. Find that you don't have a lot of spin or your launch is low, and you may have a fairly low swing speed? The R9 460 is probably the perfect head for you. Find that you are in the same situation, but have a lot of control and want to be able to set your club up to play a specific shot for a specific day (and you are accurate)? The Supertri is the stick for you. Find that you are a good player who likes control and is pretty average spin wise and likes a lower to mid launching head? the R9 is the head you want. Find that you spin the crap out of it and launch it high (*slowly raises hand) then you sir would love a Superdeep.

You honestly can't go wrong with that entire line, there's something there for everyone.

As for the Nickent's, I can't comment. Never played any of their stuff other than the ARC wedges (though I'd love to get a set of ARC blades one of these days). I've heard nothing but good things though, and there are a lot of people in this area who still play their hybrids.

Honestly, like hockey sticks, shafts have so much to do with your woods anymore it's ridiculous. I mean, you can optimize your iron shafts, and that will go a long way, but in terms of accuracy it's nothing like what a wood shaft can do. You would be amazed at how some people can go from banana balls to baby fades and draws in a few short adjustments.

Thanks on the gloves, I can't wait to start breaking them in. :)

[TheGasman 0]

The R9 3 wood is like a little piece of heaven. I love that thing. I didnt like the original R9 driver but I have the Super Tri now with a Aldila Voodoo shaft and I like it a lot. I have tried venturing off to other brands but I always end up going back to Taylormade.

[Chadd 916]

Good lord, some of you guys have no idea about golf fitting. This notion that swing speed is the end all be all is crap! There are dozens of variables that come into play when fitting a golfer for a shaft. There are static measurements (eg: wrist to floor and hand size), dynamic measurements (eg: swing speed and swing tempo), the golfer's ability and the golfer's preference as to what they feel the shaft doing during their swing. Good repeatable swing fundamentals make fitting much easier on the fitter.

I play to a single digit handicap. I have a swing speed of 107 mph with the driver when swinging out of my shoes. When I swing conservatively, I have a swing speed between 98-102 mph. I have been fit by a gentleman that does fittings on the PGA Tour and Champions Tour. After watching my swing and checking the launch monitor, I was fit for an extra stiff due to the way I transition from back swing to my down swing. I load the shaft hard in the transition. The extra stiff flex also brought my launch angle closer to optimal and my back spin closer to optimal as well. But I felt the shaft had no feel so we tried a Stiff flex tipped 3/4 of an inch. The launch angle and spin numbers were a shade higher than the X-stiff numbers that the difference in yardage was negligable. But the feel of the shaft was waaaay better. This is the set-up I went with.

When it comes to irons, I say go a bit stiffer than you think you need. Irons are about accuracy and a stiffer shaft will cost a bit of distance by accuracy should be better.

But most important is to get a lesson. A teaching pro will do wonders for your game!

Mike

You can go to three or four guys and end up with three or four combinations that will all feel right. There are so many variables with golf shafts that a stiff in one brand is the same as an X stiff in another and an R in a third brand. Factor in kick points and you have even more ways to skin a cat. I have several different drivers that all react relatively similarly despite have different flex and kick combinations on the shaft.

The biggest variable in all of this, to me, is still the swing. I had a fitting when the Ping van was in town a couple years ago and despite using R-XXS shafts and kickpoints of every description, I hit sky high iron shots. That's what my swing produces and as long as it is consistent, that's fine with me. I'm lucky, a dynamic gold S300 fits me with just about every iron I try, though I do mis the old tri gold shafts. Drivers are a different story though.

[Chappie 0]

I never get fitted at tour vans. They are a good place to try different things, but they will always be looking to sell first. Local (good) club fitters are always the best option. Me personally, I live in the greater Philly area and for anything that's not simple stuff (grips, shaft install without tipping or trimming, etc.) and I go to a guy named Jim Yesner. I'd trust him to widdle cardboard and chewing gum into something that would work for me. ;)

[Chadd 916]

I never get fitted at tour vans. They are a good place to try different things, but they will always be looking to sell first. Local (good) club fitters are always the best option. Me personally, I live in the greater Philly area and for anything that's not simple stuff (grips, shaft install without tipping or trimming, etc.) and I go to a guy named Jim Yesner. I'd trust him to widdle cardboard and chewing gum into something that would work for me. ;)

Local fitting here is pretty much nonexistent and I'm only 90 minutes from Philly. Here you're most likely to have them tell you what to use and then maybe hit a few balls to adjust the lie. I built clubs for a couple years and got pretty familiar with the fitting process before launch monitors became so common in major markets.

[Chappie 0]

If you ever make the journey over to King of Prussia, checkout Golf By Design on the third floor of the court. That's where yesner is, and if you call in and schedule an appointment for a fitting in the callaway performance center. Great tool and he knows his stuff, as does his assistant fitter. Can't say enough good things about them.

If you want to get a fitting you need to schedule an appointment though, usually a day or two before.