president

[GekigangarIII 0]

I am just talking about Ohio, I think if it is with in 4% The recount kickes in. I will check on that

No... it has to be within 1/2 of 1% to automatically recount. There's no way it will get that close, especially with a ~140,000 vote difference before provisional and military votes are counted. There won't be an automatic recount. That doesn't mean that Dims won't demand a recount through lawyers.

There won't be an "official" winner until the 12th because provisional ballots *can't* be tallied until 10 days after the election. I can tell you right now there aren't 250,000 provisionals as the Dems keep saying.. and even if there were, they won't go more than 50% for Kerry. Also, keep in mind now you have to count the military vote in these same 10 days, which will no doubt go for Bush.

"It's all over but the shouting"

Ohio isn't a Florida of 2000, there we were talking about a difference of 500 votes, we're talking hundreds of thousands in OH.

What's amazing to me is how far Bush came ahead in the Popular vote. The Democrats are going to have to modernize. If they couldn't pull this one any closer than this with all the favorable (biased) media, celebrities, 527 groups (moveon, ACT, etc.) and the constant barrage of ads... it ain't happening. There are going to have to be some major changes in that party. Of course I don't think they have much of a choice since the American public has pretty much booted them out of the house, senate and it looks like the presidency...

[Speed Demon 0]

Bush won, and he was who I wanted to win. I support the crusade.

[foppa21 0]

It just crossed the wires and was confirmed a few minutes ago that Kerry called the president to concede the race and is going to give his formal concession speech at 1 pm in the east.

[foppa21 0]

Kind of off topic, but did anyone else notice yesterday evening when Fox News went to their reporter in one of the polls around Denver that Konowalchuck was voting about 10 feet away?

[Smith 0]

I think a problem is Cheney and its too bad Juliani couldn't have been Bush's running mate. It would have been an easier win then.

I think I could go with that. Maybe in 4 years he will be in the mix.

[Chadd 916]

McCain or Juliani would have been better choices this time around. McCain had way more class than either of the 04 candidates or their PACs.

[MDE3 0]

One of the reasons that Bush has always looked so impatient and perplexed when challenged on the war in Iraq, is that he cannot openly state the real truth about why we are there. The closest he comes is to state that "my strategic plan is in the best interests of the National Security of this nation"

IMO the "real reasons" the USA is in Irag is:

1) to protect the "long term interests of the national Security of this nation".... meaning by this to control the oil resources from Irag, and in doing so control Opec..the economic life blood of the Middle East.

This "strategic necessity"..has been long lobbied for by those powers close to the president...companies such as Bechtel(a long term friend of Gearge Sr.) and MK (Now part of Haliburton)..who by the way have worked together on joint ventures going back 70 + years ...to when they were part of "the six companies" who built Boulder Dam across the Colorado. These companies are basically energy(Hydro, fossil fuel, nuclear) potentates all over the world (including Canada, Indonesia, Brazil, Chile, Argentia, and Bolivia) but especially in the middle East...and wield far greater political and economic influence than their engineering and construction abilities would mandate. Bechtel was joint ventured with Enron on more than one major project outside the US as well as within our borders. Basically it was Bechtel who introduced George Sr. to the Saudi royal family ..from whence he recieved the financing to get into the oil business on a larger scale. Interestingly Bechtel had been lobbying and negotiatiing with Saddam Hussein to build a trans Turkey/Iraqi oil pipeline just prior to the first gulf war...at the last moment Saddam Hussein vetoed this venture....Bechtel had the exclusive contract to "clean up Kuwait" right after the first Gulf War.

2) By chosing Iraq as the site for a "conventional war" terrorists are being drawn into as close to a conventional conflict, as you can get..otherwise..how do you fight a non uniformed enemy, and how do you show the public that you are "killing terrorists", when the only pictures you can otherwise show are those of apparently unarmed civilians which you claim to be "the enemy".(not that this may not be true, but it is difficult to prove)

I am not saying I agree with this logic...Osama Ben Ladin's claims on his latest tape may well be the best explanation of why this strategy could be doomed. First because of the nature of fighting a populist guerrila war, you may end up creating more opponents than you can eliminate, and secondly the economic costs of this fight may well have a long term negative impact on the strength of the US economy for generations to come(we already face the largest fiscal deficit in US history)....although it is having a very positive short term effect on many of the suppliers of the "war machine". According to Bin Laden...that is their plan, and we are happily following it.

More than any other reasons, this is why Bush looked so perplexed and frustrated when challenged on the subject....if he openly expresses these viewpoints..he would even further alienate the rest of the world, as well as any moderate forces within Iraq....who are already pretty sure of what is really happening anyway, and understand that many of those who side with the US in Iraq do so more out of economic necessity than any altruistic beliefs.

[foppa21 0]

Guliani wouldn't have a chance because of the skeletons in his closet, but he might could get close because of the way he handled 9/11 in New York. McCain on the other hand would be a great choice. I'm just waiting for McCain vs. Hilllary in '08.

[GekigangarIII 0]

Guliani wouldn't have a chance because of the skeletons in his closet, but he might could get close because of the way he handled 9/11 in New York. McCain on the other hand would be a great choice. I'm just waiting for McCain vs. Hilllary in '08.

McCain is too liberal to get a republican nomination.

As far as Guliani's skeletons, it sure didn't hurt Clinton... Granted the conservatives who nominate him would be alot less inclinded to sweep his misgivings under the rug just to get a nominee like the democrats did for Clinton.

2008 will be interesting.. As a conservative, I'm praying for Hillary to run, that's an easy win. Honestly I'd like to see Ohio's secretary of state, Ken Blackwell run as a candidate. I love that guy.

I can see it now, Conservative Black male vs. Liberal white woman for Prez. The old seperatists will be spinning in their graves!!! :) :)

[Chadd 916]

Rudy is the perfect VP, as you said he would have issues if he ran for president. I don't know if Americans would elect another president running a campaign based on the attacks on September 11, 2001. I would think that voters would be tired of hearing about it as a campaign issue.

[hattrick74 0]

about the draft, i would be very surprised to see a draft mainly because wars are not fought on the front line as much as they were pre-vietnam.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

I count my lucky stars I am older than 25. I'd be scared shitless if I weren't.

I'm tired of this assclown trying to fix his daddy's fuckups.

What I find very funny is that every state with some semblance of importance and overall intelligence voted for Kerry. Bush won all the hick states. Look at the final map...

[Tom351 0]

And Kerry won all of the fruitcake counties to push him over the top in his states.

[ponty 0]

Lets just hope the right things get done in the next four years.

I am happy in leaving it with that for now.

[WingsVK97 0]

about the draft, i would be very surprised to see a draft mainly because wars are not fought on the front line as much as they were pre-vietnam.

Funny you mention the draft. This to me was one of the biggest WTF's of the whole election. I'm not sure when, but somehow people began to think that Bush was going to get the draft re-instated. He didn't start any of that. It was Chuck Hagel of Nebraska and Charles Rangel of New York who pushed that idea forward. Both democrat by the way.

How did that happen? Seems a little off to me.

[GekigangarIII 0]

What I find very funny is that every state with some semblance of importance and overall intelligence voted for Kerry.  Bush won all the hick states.  Look at the final map...

Um... you consider CA, CT, NH, VT, MA, NY, RI, and NJ to be states associated with intelligence?? I think you confuse the term with "self importance". Sounds like you would support an aristocracy rather than a democracy. I knew there was too much Frenchie in you... ;)

and BTW Iraq isn't about obtaining the oil, if we wanted that we'd go for the Saudi's, the Russians, Norway, and Iran. They're WAY ahead of Iraq in terms of oil bearing. Iraq is like 12th on the list of exporters (even behind Mexico)... We could have run over russia during their destabilization. They're military is in shambles.

Iraq is going to be a base of operations, not a US oil reserve. You guys watch too many freaking x-files reruns.

and Wings, to answer your question: it was a fabricated talking point, designed to strike fear in the hearts of both "security moms" and MTV braindead 18-24 year olds who didn't pay attention during Civics 101 class.

PS if you guys wanna start bashing bush, why not actually make some good arguments rather than relying on Democrat/MSM talking points. Why not bring up real issues like he's weak on like the Mexico border, and he's allowed too much spending internally to try to please both parties?

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Sounds like you would support an aristocracy rather than a democracy. I knew there was too much Frenchie in you... ;)

Haha nice... :)

[MDE3 0]

Iraq is going to be a base of operations, not a US oil reserve.  You guys watch too many freaking x-files reruns.

Your facts are correct if somewhat incomplete...Iraq may well have been 12th at one point..but is probably well below that recently..however their reserves are significantly larger than those of Saudi Arabia..which was my point...controlling those reserves in an effort to be able to prevent Opec's opening and closing their pipelines in order to control the supply, the rumours, and thus the pricing....

And btw..my information is not based at all on fantasy...try reading a bit about the Bechtel Corporation..I have worked on more than one of their projects. The reason that Bechtel wanted a trans Iraq/Turkey pipeline was originally to have a non Opec controlled middle Eastern oil supply to the Med.

When the President of a particular corporation becomes sec/state for several years(George Schultz under Reagan), and a VP from the same company(Caspar Weinberger) becomes sec/def at the same time, as well as the controlling family of this corporation having close having close family ties to the current administration, it might be worth paying a little more attention to their influence and current activities.....Both Haliburton and Bechtel have the primary contracts in the clean up and reconstruction of Iraq...however you almost never hear about Bechtel....Both are specialists in the energy and infrastructure construction fields..and very well qualified for the job. You might want to check out the list of Bechtel's subsidiaries as well.....both inside and outside the energy fields....

Bechtel is currently the world's largest civil engineering firm and currently listed as #7 in the who's who's of the worlds largest contractors..they are used to being #1... Things have gone down hill a bit since they completed the bulk of the clean up of Kuwait (prime contractor) after the first Gulf War.

If you want a better understanding of current US foreign policy..you would be well to check out a book called "Friends in High Places" by Laton McCartney....this is not a fantasy book ..but a historical record of the Bechtel Corporation through 1987....well documented from references to the Library of Congress....times have not changed all that much.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

I count my lucky stars I am older than 25.  I'd be scared shitless if I weren't.

I'm tired of this assclown trying to fix his daddy's fuckups. 

What I find very funny is that every state with some semblance of importance and overall intelligence voted for Kerry.  Bush won all the hick states.  Look at the final map...

In case, they decided to draft in Canada too, I have flat feet, too bad, lol ;) .

I think it would be completely stupid to draft citizens when everyone know that USA is the country of liberty.

[Chadd 916]

I count my lucky stars I am older than 25. I'd be scared shitless if I weren't.

I'm tired of this assclown trying to fix his daddy's fuckups.

Actually his daddy had fewer fuckups than W has had so far. If it wasn't for Perot, G.H.W. Bush would have had two terms and Clinton would have missed out.

As for the other part, Kerry didn't win the popular vote, electoral college or a majority of the states. Accept the fact you're in the minority politically right now and welcome to the club. I think both of them were asshats.

[ponty 0]

Bottom line guys, like it or not, it is what it is.

Hope that W learned from a few crucial mistakes and lets try to stick together on this one a bit.

I hope to see some things moving forward in a positive direction in about 2 years. Hope ...

[GekigangarIII 0]

Your facts are correct if somewhat incomplete...Iraq may well have been 12th at one point..but is probably well below that recently..however their reserves are significantly larger than those of Saudi Arabia..which was my point...

Well, then, your point was wrong. Saudi Arabia has a reserve of 261bbl while Iraq has 113bbl.

[Chadd 916]

Bottom line guys, like it or not, it is what it is.

Hope that W learned from a few crucial mistakes and lets try to stick together on this one a bit.

I hope to see some things moving forward in a positive direction in about 2 years. Hope ...

I'd bet the contenders start the 2008 election cycle within the year. The people who consider themselves viable options will start to position themselves by Jan 1 2006. I think one of the most interesting things was that Daschle lost, that should signal the Democrats to change their actions in the senate and to a lesser degree in the house.

[ponty 0]

I think most would agree that this country is WAY overdue from a true leader who is dynamic.

This country needs this in the worst way. We all agree we want a strong economy, Iraq to be done, and Osama to be dead.

The frustration and the division is based on how and who can achieve this.

I am not sure if Bush or Kerry can or could. We will know for sure at the end of 4 years.

[GekigangarIII 0]

As for the other part, Kerry didn't win the popular vote, electoral college or a majority of the states. Accept the fact you're in the minority politically right now and welcome to the club. I think both of them were asshats.

Yeah, bottom line is, NOBODY is ever going to please everyone. Unfortunately, our system only allows the very connected and the very pandering to get to that position of power. Adding another party or several parties isn't going to stop it either... the "dream" of having a common Joe that understands the common guy in the office just isn't going to happen. You have to pick your poison, so to speak. ;)

Until the ultra conservatives and the ultra liberals stop aquiring all of the wealth it's not going to change. Unfortunately, I just don't see that happening.