Greatest European born player?

[RadioGaGa 162]

Someone called Forsberg the "Greatest European ever". So, let's discuss...

Forsberg?

Jagr?

Kurri?

Salming?

Lidstrom?

Sundin?

Naslund?

???

...Just throwing names out there. Who do you think is the greatest European born NHLer ever?

Personally...I would say Lidstrom.

[Drewhunz 3]

Lidstrom

Mikita

Kurri

Any Stastny brother

[Machinehead2k5 32]

Lidstrom for defence and Jagr for forward with Kurri, Forsberg, and Selanne right after.

Jagr when he wanted to and he did, would/could take over games and make people look completely stupid.

[maxamillion 3]

I think Forsberg. He was such a multi dimensional guy that would either dangle you, pass through you, or blow through you. he wasn't a defensive liability either, and I never saw anyone control a game like he did (started watching hockey in '98.) I know he's the reason I started playing. I always wore my forsberg Jersey playing street hockey, and I wanted all of the same equipment he wore and used. When he came to philly I was so excited, and when things didn't pan out, I was devastated.

and that's not knocking anyone listed. Lidstrom will go down as one of the 10 greatest dmen of all time, Jagr will be remembered as one of the premier offensive threats in the game, but Forsberg had an edge that just puts him at number one in my book. unfortunately a genetic issue prevented him from going down in the record books. He is 10th all time in points per game however, and that's pretty remarkable. even when he was at his 'worst' in the last few years, he was averaging over a point per game.

anyway, he holds the highest honors in my hockey heart. Owe a lot to him.

[bigdmac 12]

I think its a toss up between Jagr and Forsberg on straight up skill. Lidstrom has it on defence, but my hats go off to Salming becuase he had to put up with so much crap being one of the only Euro players at the time. Salming was a true man for dealing with everything throughout his career.

[phonak 0]

Like I mentioned in the other thread, I believe that Forsberg is the best European player to ever play in the NHL. The only one that gets close, in my mind, is Jagr.

[Speedz98 15]

I'll just throw Kharlamov out there.

[Chadd 916]

Lots of great players to choose from, but I have to go with Lidstrom.

[team50 20]

Steve "Stumpy" Thomas. Clutch in OT.

[decoy 164]

It's Jagr. You can't beat five scoring titles. Lidstrom is overrated in this category. He won his first Norris when he was 31 years old.

[RadioGaGa 162]

Steve "Stumpy" Thomas. Clutch in OT.

LOL...if we are going that route...don't forget Dany Heatley (b. Germany) and Owen Nolan (b. Ireland).

[chippa13 1844]

Strange that noone mentioned any of the great European goalies, Tretiak and Hasek for starters.

[RadioGaGa 162]

Strange that noone mentioned any of the great European goalies, Tretiak and Hasek for starters.

Tretiak never played in the NHL...but, yes...Hasek definitely warrants a place in this discussion.

[TeamHonda401 54]

Forsberg only had two 100+ point seasons. I know he had all of the injury problems, but that has to be taken into account when determining his legacy. He may have been dominant for three or four years, but Lidstrom has been an elite d-man since he broke in as a rookie. It may have taken him a while to win his first Norris, but what does that matter. The man has almost 1,100 points for his career. How many defenceman have more points than Lidstrom? Not many. How many forwards have more points than Forsberg? A lot.

[maxamillion 3]

Forsberg only had two 100+ point seasons. I know he had all of the injury problems, but that has to be taken into account when determining his legacy. He may have been dominant for three or four years, but Lidstrom has been an elite d-man since he broke in as a rookie. It may have taken him a while to win his first Norris, but what does that matter. The man has almost 1,100 points for his career. How many defenceman have more points than Lidstrom? Not many. How many forwards have more points than Forsberg? A lot.

how many forwards have a higher point per game average than forsberg? not many.

[RRyders88 0]

also Forsberg is 4th all time in assists per game...behind Gretzky, Lemieux and Orr....pretty good company! Forsberg isn't just my favourite European born player, but my favourite player to watch of all time.

[dsjunior1388 81]

how many forwards have a higher point per game average than forsberg? not many.

Well, not many, but Jagr is one of them.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/points_per_game_career.html

I give the nod to Jagr over Forsberg because he had just a hair more points per game, and also played a lot longer and his career stats tounce Forsberg. If Forsberg would have been able to play longer he may have had a chance at beating out Jagr, but thats the nature of the game. In short term dominance Jagr has him too, with five 100 point seasons, to Forsbergs 2. Not to mention if Jagr wasnt in Russia right now he'd have surpassed 700 goals and 1600 points.

That being said, Lidstrom never had a bad year. Jagr had a couple "off years." His lowest amount of games played in a non-strike year is 76. 6 Norris Trophys, amongst the likes of Pronger, and Niedermayer, and the stats to back him up as a top 10, maybe top 5 defenseman. I'd go with Lidstrom #1, Jagr #2.

[psh 25]

Well, not many, but Jagr is one of them.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/points_per_game_career.html

I give the nod to Jagr over Forsberg because he had just a hair more points per game, and also played a lot longer and his career stats tounce Forsberg. If Forsberg would have been able to play longer he may have had a chance at beating out Jagr, but thats the nature of the game. In short term dominance Jagr has him too, with five 100 point seasons, to Forsbergs 2. Not to mention if Jagr wasnt in Russia right now he'd have surpassed 700 goals and 1600 points.

That being said, Lidstrom never had a bad year. Jagr had a couple "off years." His lowest amount of games played in a non-strike year is 76. 6 Norris Trophys, amongst the likes of Pronger, and Niedermayer, and the stats to back him up as a top 10, maybe top 5 defenseman. I'd go with Lidstrom #1, Jagr #2.

Can't argue with Lidstrom, Jagr and Forsberg. It is interesting to note that, when the chips are down, Forsberg beats Jags. Forsberg has a far better playoff +/- and also edges Jagr on playoff points per game.

I love Sakic and don't mean to denigrate him with this comparison, but I think one of the most illuminating things about Forsberg is checking out his points per game and +/- numbers next to Sakic's numbers. They spent nearly their entire careers on the same team, and Forsberg beats Sakic in regular season points per game and has a 200 point spread over Sakic in +/-. It's hard to comprehend. The playoff performances are even more stark, especially +/-. Forsberg is a + 54 in the playoffs and Sakic is a -2. That puts things into a different perspective and really illustrates what drew so many people to Forsberg and his style of play. When things mattered most, he rose to the occasion. He not only scored, or more often created scoring chances, but he also kept the opponents off the board with his physically imposing possession style of game. It's hard to think of a power forward with that degree of skill and that committment to the defensive side of the game in recent history.

To get back on topic, I just can't comapare defensemen to forwards. Lidder as the #1 Euro D and Forsberg #1 and Jagr #2 Euro forwards.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/f/forsbpe01.html

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/j/jagrja01.html

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/s/sakicjo01.html

[Chadd 916]

Can't argue with Lidstrom, Jagr and Forsberg. It is interesting to note that, when the chips are down, Forsberg beats Jags. Forsberg has a far better playoff +/- and also edges Jagr on playoff points per game.

I love Sakic and don't mean to denigrate him with this comparison, but I think one of the most illuminating things about Forsberg is checking out his points per game and +/- numbers next to Sakic's numbers. They spent nearly their entire careers on the same team, and Forsberg beats Sakic in regular season points per game and has a 200 point spread over Sakic in +/-. It's hard to comprehend. The playoff performances are even more stark, especially +/-. Forsberg is a + 54 in the playoffs and Sakic is a -2. That puts things into a different perspective and really illustrates what drew so many people to Forsberg and his style of play. When things mattered most, he rose to the occasion. He not only scored, or more often created scoring chances, but he also kept the opponents off the board with his physically imposing possession style of game. It's hard to think of a power forward with that degree of skill and that committment to the defensive side of the game in recent history.

To get back on topic, I just can't comapare defensemen to forwards. Lidder as the #1 Euro D and Forsberg #1 and Jagr #2 Euro forwards.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/f/forsbpe01.html

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/j/jagrja01.html

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/s/sakicjo01.html

When they were on different lines, Sakic faced the number one defense pairing most of the time.

[dsjunior1388 81]

When they were on different lines, Sakic faced the number one defense pairing most of the time.

Same reason why Malkin won the Smythe instead of Crosby.

[phonak 0]

Well, not many, but Jagr is one of them.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/points_per_game_career.html

You can also argue that Jagr had Lemiux who probably helped him achieve a higher PPG than any Forsbergs linesmates. Impossible to tell what that difference would have been though. The difference between the two in PPG is also around .005 so it seems odd to say that's the reason why one is better than the other.

When they were on different lines, Sakic faced the number one defense pairing most of the time.

I've seen some info that they're quite equal in facing the opposing teams best defenders so I'd like to see some evidence of this

[Gefiltefish 9]

Strange that noone mentioned any of the great European goalies, Tretiak and Hasek for starters.

Hasek is the first person to come to mind for me.

Otherwise it is Lidstrom.

[Chadd 916]

I've seen some info that they're quite equal in facing the opposing teams best defenders so I'd like to see some evidence of this

Go back and watch the games, that's how I got my info.

Same reason why Malkin won the Smythe instead of Crosby.

Fleurry deserved it more.

[phonak 0]

Go back and watch the games, that's how I got my info.

So in other words you got nothing to back that claim up with..

[jschlenske 0]

So in other words you got nothing to back that claim up with..

Before you go opening mouth can we see some of your "evidence" claiming

"I've seen some info that they're quite equal in facing the opposing teams best defenders"