2011-2012 Suspension thread

[goblue9280 33]

Shanahan seems to be backing off significantly from his positions earlier in the season.

I expected that to a certain degree. He came out guns a blazin' as the new sheriff in town... as most people would. I think from about midseason on is the period we should use to measure his consistency.

[Chadd 916]

Chippa13, hockeymass - Fair enough... I get what you are both saying, and I agree the "vulnerable position" rule has more to do with what happens the split second before a hit occurs. My point though is right before the hit occurs, Vorachek puts his head back down after looking up and seeing someone at the blueline.

Go back and watch the video again, there is no hit coming until after Voracek puts his head down. Kronwall is stationary at the blue line until he see Voracek look for the puck, only then does he make any movement forward to commit to the hit. Voracek does not put himself in a vulnerable position "immediately prior to or simultaneous with the hit" as the rule states.

[goblue9280 33]

Voracek does not put himself in a vulnerable position "immediately prior to or simultaneous with the hit" as the rule states.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Really, aren't we just arguing semantics? What is "immediately prior to"... 1/2 second, 1 second? From the time Voracek looks up to the blueline, to the time the hit is made, it's maybe a second. When Voracek looks up, Kronwall is actually in the process of making that quick blueline backwards to forward transition that he is notorious for... Kronwall already knows he is making that hit before Voracek puts his head back down. When Voracek looks up and sees someone at the blueline, he has to know that defenseman will do one of two things: either drop back, or step up and make a hit. If Voracek doesn't adjust accordingly to a possible hit, and instead put his head down, that's on him.

Regardless of the "vulnerable" argument, the league (and on-ice officials) ruled it a legal full-body check that did not target the head... and as such have deemed it a type of hit they want to remain in the game.

Another thing, after watching the replay 100 times or so... Kronwall did what anyone delivering a check should do, he aimed for the midline of the body. Voracek was coming straight at him... if Kronwall aims for the inside or outside shoulder, he runs the risk of Voracek side stepping at the last second and being off to the races. If Kronwall steps up and doesn't play the body, Voracek chips it by and is off to the races. If Kronwall drops back, he gives Voracek the time to collect the puck and possibly start an odd man rush. I think Kronwall made the right hockey play, but unfortunately Voracek had his head out in a manner that caused it to be the primary point of contact on a midline body check.

Full disclosure: that's my non-expert, incredibly biased redwings fan take, lol.

[chippa13 1844]

that's my non-expert, incredibly biased redwings fan take

This says it all.

[Chadd 916]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Really, aren't we just arguing semantics? What is "immediately prior to"... 1/2 second, 1 second? From the time Voracek looks up to the blueline, to the time the hit is made, it's maybe a second. When Voracek looks up, Kronwall is actually in the process of making that quick blueline backwards to forward transition that he is notorious for... Kronwall already knows he is making that hit before Voracek puts his head back down. When Voracek looks up and sees someone at the blueline, he has to know that defenseman will do one of two things: either drop back, or step up and make a hit. If Voracek doesn't adjust accordingly to a possible hit, and instead put his head down, that's on him.

Regardless of the "vulnerable" argument, the league (and on-ice officials) ruled it a legal full-body check that did not target the head... and as such have deemed it a type of hit they want to remain in the game.

Another thing, after watching the replay 100 times or so... Kronwall did what anyone delivering a check should do, he aimed for the midline of the body. Voracek was coming straight at him... if Kronwall aims for the inside or outside shoulder, he runs the risk of Voracek side stepping at the last second and being off to the races. If Kronwall steps up and doesn't play the body, Voracek chips it by and is off to the races. If Kronwall drops back, he gives Voracek the time to collect the puck and possibly start an odd man rush. I think Kronwall made the right hockey play, but unfortunately Voracek had his head out in a manner that caused it to be the primary point of contact on a midline body check.

Full disclosure: that's my non-expert, incredibly biased redwings fan take, lol.

1 second is forever in the NHL. As for Kronwall's other options, there is a very good chance that he would have been able to pinch in and take the puck low in the zone given how far Voracek was from the puck and not having control of it. In fact, I would expect a lot of defensemen to try and make that play. As far as being legal, the NHL allowed Scott Stevens to head hunt for a long time before they decided it wasn't a good idea to allow it. Eventually, they will come around on this type of hit as well.

[goblue9280 33]

This says it all.

Ouch, not going to pump my tires at all, Chippa? Well, at least I have one person who agrees with me, Voracek himself: http://www.csnphilly.com/blog/flyers-talk/post/Voracek-faults-himself-for-clean-Kronwal?blockID=665140&feedID=695

"It was a tough hit to take, but it was a clean hit and from my side, it was my bad. Those hits should stay in the game.”

I think THAT says it all.

[hockeymass 11]

Ouch, not going to pump my tires at all, Chippa? Well, at least I have one person who agrees with me, Voracek himself: http://www.csnphilly...5140&feedID=695

"It was a tough hit to take, but it was a clean hit and from my side, it was my bad. Those hits should stay in the game.”

I think THAT says it all.

The alternative is to complain about the officiating and get fined.

[camhockey16 5]

could the nhl suspend kronwall and say that he should have crouched down when throwing that hit?

i think that is probably the only way he would have hit voracek in the chest or shoulder instead of the head - and voracek still might have gotten an injury from the whiplash or his head hitting the ice.

[goblue9280 33]

The alternative is to complain about the officiating and get fined.

It's not black and white, there's plenty of gray area where he could of disapproved of the hit without being critical of the league/officials. I think his comments are emphatic that he viewed the hit as both clean and legal.

[hockeymass 11]

could the nhl suspend kronwall and say that he should have crouched down when throwing that hit?

i think that is probably the only way he would have hit voracek in the chest or shoulder instead of the head - and voracek still might have gotten an injury from the whiplash or his head hitting the ice.

Kronwall is shorter than Voracek, so I'm not sure how he drilled him square in the face while staying on his skates.

It's not black and white, there's plenty of gray area where he could of disapproved of the hit without being critical of the league/officials. I think his comments are emphatic that he viewed the hit as both clean and legal.

See Tortorella, John.

[goblue9280 33]

See Tortorella, John.

Spin it however you want... while I may be (admittedly) biased as a wings fan, I appear to have the NHL and Voracek on my side.

Kronwall is shorter than Voracek, so I'm not sure how he drilled him square in the face while staying on his skates.

Because Voracek had his knees bents in stride while leaning forward, whereas Kronwall was standing straight up for a full body check. You keep saying he left his feet, but I have yet to see one camera angle or still shot which shows this. His feet barely come off the ground AFTER the hit is made, but that is a result of the force of the hit, and not an actual jump into the hit.

[hockeymass 11]

Spin it however you want... while I may be (admittedly) biased as a wings fan, I appear to have the NHL and Voracek on my side.

Because Voracek had his knees bents in stride while leaning forward, whereas Kronwall was standing straight up for a full body check. You keep saying he left his feet, but I have yet to see one camera angle or still shot which shows this. His feet barely come off the ground AFTER the hit is made, but that is a result of the force of the hit, and not an actual jump into the hit.

If you can't see his feet coming off the ground right before he hits Voracek, your eyeballs must be Wings fans too.

I'm done with this, because you're just going to keep insisting this is a good hit, when the majority of Kronwall's "devastating" hits are the result of bad form that goes unpunished.

[Chadd 916]

His feet barely come off the ground AFTER the hit is made, but that is a result of the force of the hit, and not an actual jump into the hit.

his feet do not come off the ice because of the force of the hit, that almost never happens anymore. His feet come off the ice because everyone now launches themselves up into every hit.

Kronwall is shorter than Voracek, so I'm not sure how he drilled him square in the face while staying on his skates.

Because Voracek was not fully upright and Kronwall was.

While I don't like those hits, it's not surprising at all that he was not suspended, given the way the NHL has handled so many of his hits in the past.

[hockeymass 11]

his feet do not come off the ice because of the force of the hit, that almost never happens anymore. His feet come off the ice because everyone now launches themselves up into every hit.

Because Voracek was not fully upright and Kronwall was.

While I don't like those hits, it's not surprising at all that he was not suspended, given the way the NHL has handled so many of his hits in the past.

After rewatching it, I agree that Voracek was slightly hunched. I still think he left his skates to deliver the hit. I agree that they've let him get away with a lot of these hits. Almost every one of his Youtube classics is either a shoulder to the head or a leap.

[goblue9280 33]

your eyeballs must be Wings fans too.

I'm done with this, because you're just going to keep insisting this is a good hit

Do his feet come off the ice 2" after making the check - yes... does he leave his feet to make the check - no.

hockeymass, no hard feelings, we're both passionately on opposite sides of this argument... nothing wrong with that. I've enjoyed the banter.

[hockeymass 11]

Do his feet come off the ice 2" after making the check - yes... does he leave his feet to make the check - no.

hockeymass, no hard feelings, we're both passionately on opposite sides of this argument... nothing wrong with that. I've enjoyed the banter.

Agree to disagree. I actually had a passionate argument about the same hit with another Bs fan on a different site. I think the fact that opinions differ so wildly means that the league really needs to start clarifying and explaining what is and is not a violation of rule 48.

[camhockey16 5]

where i am still confused is if i am a player and always skate around with my head down (which is really dumb) - does that mean that my head is then fair game? im not saying i shouldn't get hit, i just don't like that it seems to be the one instance where headshots are allowed.

[goblue9280 33]

Based on rule 48, a player skating with his head down can be hit in the head as long as the head wasn't targeted OR the principal point of contact.

[camhockey16 5]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=621367

Capitals' Mike Green suspended for three games

[troy 12]

Mike Green, just seems like the consummate douche bag. He is also embarrassingly poor at actually playing defense.

[Trooper 8]

Mike Green, just seems like the consummate douche bag. He is also embarrassingly poor at actually playing defense.

Couldn't agree more, one of the most overrated players in the league...or at this point maybe nobody rates him that highly anymore...

[Vulcan7905 88]

Man, thats a bad hit. Wife told me about then I had to check here. She said it's like 85k going into the player emergency fund. That correct?

[Machinehead2k5 32]

Man, thats a bad hit. Wife told me about then I had to check here. She said it's like 85k going into the player emergency fund. That correct?

All of the suspensions lost salaries go into the Player Emergency Fund.

[hockeymass 11]

God, Mike Green is a douche.

[wrangler 157]

There was just some good stuff on NHL Network, with the Brendan Shanahan being questioned by three of their TV types. He went over some of the rules, some video, and discussed a bit of the feedback he got at the GM meetings. This guy sounds like he's trying very hard to do a good job.