Start a new Elite League?

[Buzz_LightBeer 963]

Picking a town/rink for a successful "franchise" is key too, most of the GLHL are secluded northern towns, with little else for entertainment in the area, places like Eagle River, WI and Mosinee, WI will draw 1000-1200 per night, as it is kind of the big event in the area. the teams closer to milwaukee and green bay dont draw as much

[mhkehoe 1]

Didn't the Vacaville ice rink used to be international sized?

I don't really see Vacaville, Sacramento (don't these people just use Skatetown?), or Roseville drawing crowds. If people want to see check hockey, they can watch Sacstate play, or see minor league hockey like the Stockton Thunder.

That isn't to say that you wouldn't be able to get some interest in a check league. I think there are plenty of guys that want more contact allowed, though the skill levels may range a bit.

[greech 4]

I feel like you're running the risk of having people show up to go out and kill people- though I think there's definitely a market for it (California may not be it). Allowing fighting would be bad for the league IMHO, on top of the liability you're going to just have games turn into line brawls every time one team goes up by 8 goals.

[skyscrape 5]

I am not necessarily trying to bring a crowd. It would be nice. I am trying to offer a top tier checking league. As far as talent, I think we could put a better team together in the sacramento area than Sac State has to offer due to the fact that there are a lot of talented players who are done with or not in school. This is not a bash on Sac State Hockey. In fact I bet the best players from their team would be among those interested. We will see. The sacramento are has guys lining up already, just need to start looking for interest in other cities.

[greech 4]

I think it's also very important to make sure you keep the skill level very consistant. Having a few individuals way above other's talent level, or vise versa, can turn dangerous in a contact league when things get moving.

[skyscrape 5]

This is very true. That is one of the most important aspects of this and also why I wanted to try to put this together.

[BarDownGinos 3]

Something that may help expedite your process is getting in touch with rink managers/hockey directors/league reps for areas that have high level leagues and having them do some of the leg work for you. Have them float the idea out about putting together a team for full contact games. You may be able to get 3-4 teams and give it a test run. if it works well obviously word will spread and it will probably expand. Maybe you've already done this, but it's what I would do.

[skyscrape 5]

Something that may help expedite your process is getting in touch with rink managers/hockey directors/league reps for areas that have high level leagues and having them do some of the leg work for you. Have them float the idea out about putting together a team for full contact games. You may be able to get 3-4 teams and give it a test run. if it works well obviously word will spread and it will probably expand. Maybe you've already done this, but it's what I would do.

I have not, but this is a good idea. Thanks, I appreciate any advice at this point!

I have been laying low on crazy amounts of cold medicine for the last 4 or 5 days.

[goaliemanshark 6]

Have you figured out how much it's going to cost per player? Have you told this number to these potential players?

Why look for teams in other cities if you have at least a couple teams in Sacramento? Why not start small and see if the idea is even viable...

[skyscrape 5]

It will run similar to the cost of any men's league and no I told all the guys it would be free. Read your signature(Dan Boyle's quote), this task will be difficult but I am going to try. You talk at me as if I am some 19 year old who can not give up the dream. I am just trying to figure out a way to offer something to the guys around here who still want to play Hockey, that is it.

My answer to your second question is...that would be boring.

I think it would be better to try and put a tournament together with out of area teams before I just go with two local teams.

[stuie7 6]

I play Recreational/Beer League hockey in Britain, being in Europe this means that we’re governed by the IIHF and as such the league is full contact. I’ll try to give you a perspective of someone who’s played in a similar kind of league to what you’re talking about.

I am not trying to start a fighting league. Possibly play with Olympic rules. You fight and you are tossed.

In the league that I play in fighting is punished by ejection from the game and an automatic 1 game suspension; this appears to work well, I’ve only seen a handful of fights in 5 years of Recreational hockey and when it does occur there is usually a good reason for it; defending players who’ve been boarded from behind, hitting goalies etc.

Why would you want to play full contact if you have a day job in the morning?

If you ask me, full contact is fundamental to hockey. If everyone played full contact all of the time, then it wouldn’t be a big issue and everyone would learn to play with their heads up; meaning you’re not going to get destroyed because you’re actually aware of your surroundings. Most of the time all you will see is pretty tame hits along the boards. Not many recreational players have the ability to hit like Scott Stevens.

Have fun finding teams that are willing to drive three hours for a 1 hour hockey game.

Living in Britain, which is about the size of a medium size State in the US, but has a rather well spread-out hockey community means that my nearest away game is 1 hour away, games in Edinburgh, Scotland (2.5 hours by car) and Sheffield (also 2.5 hours by car) are not unheard of and are considered relatively nearby. A few times a year I have fixtures in Wales or near London which is going to require a travel time of around 5 hours each way. I always thought Americans were happy to travel such distances?!

Think about how expensive ice time and insurance would be.

Although this is very much an apples and pears situation, my league registration costs £50 (about $85 USD) for a year and usually put in about £10 for a game (about $15 USD) on top of that, which goes towards ice time and referees pay.

Whilst I understand that hockey here will not compare to that of somewhere like Minnesota, I can’t see why you wouldn’t be able to play sensible, full contact hockey in North America. I think your “lawsuit culture” has a lot to blame for sapping the life out of hockey, especially when I have no complaints about playing under the IIHF system which works perfectly in my experience.

In many ways what I’m saying can be related to the NHL debate of fighting vs no fighting. Hitting in the league that I play in cuts down on slashing, hooking and other such “annoying” plays because there is the threat that someone will stand up from themselves and dump you onto the floor..!

[BenderHockey 127]

Have you figured out how much it's going to cost per player? Have you told this number to these potential players?

Why look for teams in other cities if you have at least a couple teams in Sacramento? Why not start small and see if the idea is even viable...

I think we all understand you are not in agreement with this idea, but would you please just let him do his thing? No need to continually nit-pick or poop on his ideas.

[-venom- 0]

What about something like this ?

http://www.aihlhocke...view/aihlhockey

They think they are cooler than they are and try to compare themselves for the RHI but they play locally and players travel. People drive from San Jose to Ripon to play 2 roller hockey games...

Actually, just FYI.... AIHL knows they are not the RHI. The problem is, the RHI model isn't feasible for ANYTHING that currently exists in the Roller market right now. AIHL, MLRH, PIHA - they all know this.

And it expands beyond local. It's actually more regional, than it is locally - and there is a national Semi-Finals and Championship.

It's not nearly what people would like it to be, but please, don't marginalize something you don't really know enough about...

[goaliemanshark 6]

Look it's really simple. Someone goes on a hockey forum and discusses setting something up in my area. I put in my opinion, and give my advice and suggestions. I didn't treat anyone like a child, in fact i think I was very nice and diplomatic, especially considering how strongly i feel about this. No reason to attack me personally, i have not attacked you, just your idea.

If you can do it, then more power to you. It's going to be much harder than you think.

[skyscrape 5]

Look it's really simple. Someone goes on a hockey forum and discusses setting something up in my area. I put in my opinion, and give my advice and suggestions. I didn't treat anyone like a child, in fact i think I was very nice and diplomatic, especially considering how strongly i feel about this. No reason to attack me personally, i have not attacked you, just your idea.

If you can do it, then more power to you. It's going to be much harder than you think.

We all know you feel strongly about this. All of your six posts on here state that. Again I do not understand why you are so against contact hockey. I never attacked you personally, just responding to you bringing constant negativity to this topic. I will stop responding because I feel I am just adding fuel to the fire. I realize it will be harder than I think. I do not expect it just to pop up! That is one of the reasons I started here. For some sound advice from like minded people and for that I am thankful.

I play Recreational/Beer League hockey in Britain, being in Europe this means that we’re governed by the IIHF and as such the league is full contact. I’ll try to give you a perspective of someone who’s played in a similar kind of league to what you’re talking about.

In the league that I play in fighting is punished by ejection from the game and an automatic 1 game suspension; this appears to work well, I’ve only seen a handful of fights in 5 years of Recreational hockey and when it does occur there is usually a good reason for it; defending players who’ve been boarded from behind, hitting goalies etc.

If you ask me, full contact is fundamental to hockey. If everyone played full contact all of the time, then it wouldn’t be a big issue and everyone would learn to play with their heads up; meaning you’re not going to get destroyed because you’re actually aware of your surroundings. Most of the time all you will see is pretty tame hits along the boards. Not many recreational players have the ability to hit like Scott Stevens.

Living in Britain, which is about the size of a medium size State in the US, but has a rather well spread-out hockey community means that my nearest away game is 1 hour away, games in Edinburgh, Scotland (2.5 hours by car) and Sheffield (also 2.5 hours by car) are not unheard of and are considered relatively nearby. A few times a year I have fixtures in Wales or near London which is going to require a travel time of around 5 hours each way. I always thought Americans were happy to travel such distances?!

Although this is very much an apples and pears situation, my league registration costs £50 (about $85 USD) for a year and usually put in about £10 for a game (about $15 USD) on top of that, which goes towards ice time and referees pay.

Whilst I understand that hockey here will not compare to that of somewhere like Minnesota, I can’t see why you wouldn’t be able to play sensible, full contact hockey in North America. I think your “lawsuit culture” has a lot to blame for sapping the life out of hockey, especially when I have no complaints about playing under the IIHF system which works perfectly in my experience.

In many ways what I’m saying can be related to the NHL debate of fighting vs no fighting. Hitting in the league that I play in cuts down on slashing, hooking and other such “annoying” plays because there is the threat that someone will stand up from themselves and dump you onto the floor..!

I agree with all of the above statements and this is why I want to try to put something of this nature together. Thanks for the input. I really like the idea of fighting being an ejection and automatic game. I would like to play under the Olympic rules for that matter.

Thanks again for all the insight. I am not trying to make money off this, just put something together so that guys who want to play full on Hockey can play it.

[stuie7 6]

Thanks again for all the insight.

It's not a problem; I think what you're trying to do is a great idea. I've often thought of moving over the Pond, but the thought of non-contact hockey full of silly minor-penalties seriously puts me off the idea.

I play defence and on the rare occasion where I've had to play non-contact I can't help but get infuriated by skilled players who KNOW they can't get hit, so they'll pull out the fancy moves that they usually wouldn't get the opportunity to even try.

I'm also pleased to see someone in support of the IIHF rules, the number of times I've read on here about Olympic/European hockey being soft is insane.. it's ironic that 90% of these people play non-contact North American Beer League!

Most people will be amazed by how often you decide to play the puck rather than the body in full-contact hockey; it's all about making the correct choice. Just because you're playing full contact doesn't mean you're going to take the body 100% of the time, far from it. Contact hockey will help you become a better player, it's a fact; not because it will bring a physical element to your game, but because it'll give you far superior sense of awareness and the ability to make quick decisions that could affect the outcome of the game, e.g. going for a hit, missing, and gifting the other team a breakaway. That's hockey, watching a forward putting the puck between his legs and then back out again, whilst you wildly swing at him with your stick isn't.

[Hawkeye 0]

I have contacted a few leagues. Here is one of them. Multi state. So to answer the question who would drive from San Jose to Sacramento...I think we could find them.

http://www.greatlake...e.org/index.php

The league you talked about in Chicago was Johnny's Elite. They stopped checking several years ago.

I've been to a GLHL game in Eagle River. I think all the teams in that league are in Wisconsin and most are in small towns. They play almost every weekend December - March, 25 games. They charge admission and serve beer at the games. I'm sure they do that to offset the cost of travel, rink fees, refs, etc. People come out to the games because there's really not much to do in the Northwoods. Eagle River is a resort town of maybe 5000 people an hour away from anything.

All the guys that play for Eagle River seemed like young guys just out of college, Jr's, whatever. I don't remember seeing anyone out there over the age of 30.

I know none of this helps you out. Just thought I'd give you a scope of what that league is.

[Hallsy86 0]

I played for one of the Utah teams last season (as a goalie). It's a lot of fun, but some teams do nothing but go after guys and look for the big hits/fights. I believe USA Hockey made fighting a game misconduct last year too.

It was hard to get players every game, especially road games. Even road games that were an hour away we would typically have a short bench. I'm not sure of the financial specifics but I know if you don't have any sponsors it gets expensive, and is usually more than most guys are willing to pay. Two of the Utah teams from last year folded because of money problems.

[skyscrape 5]

The league you talked about in Chicago was Johnny's Elite. They stopped checking several years ago.

I've been to a GLHL game in Eagle River. I think all the teams in that league are in Wisconsin and most are in small towns. They play almost every weekend December - March, 25 games. They charge admission and serve beer at the games. I'm sure they do that to offset the cost of travel, rink fees, refs, etc. People come out to the games because there's really not much to do in the Northwoods. Eagle River is a resort town of maybe 5000 people an hour away from anything.

All the guys that play for Eagle River seemed like young guys just out of college, Jr's, whatever. I don't remember seeing anyone out there over the age of 30.

I know none of this helps you out. Just thought I'd give you a scope of what that league is.

Thank you! I do appreciate this.

I played for one of the Utah teams last season (as a goalie). It's a lot of fun, but some teams do nothing but go after guys and look for the big hits/fights. I believe USA Hockey made fighting a game misconduct last year too.

It was hard to get players every game, especially road games. Even road games that were an hour away we would typically have a short bench. I'm not sure of the financial specifics but I know if you don't have any sponsors it gets expensive, and is usually more than most guys are willing to pay. Two of the Utah teams from last year folded because of money problems.

I mis spoke when I originally compared what I am going after to the league stated above and the GLHL. I was thinking bigger than I should have. I would like it to be similar in format. I do not expect fans, in fact I just want to do this so that players in the area who want to play contact hockey can play contact hockey. The rest would be a bonus. We would be paying our own way. Car pooling more than anything. Basically a level of adult hockey somehow connected with USA Hockey. These are the key ingredients for me. No one will be making any money outside of the rinks we are paying to let us use the ice and yes...the Dr.'s I am sure many will visit. I have been down and out with the flu recently so I have not been on the ball. Hearing the outside perspectives has been very helpful and I appreciate all of it. I will be contacting USA Hockey next to see if this is even possible. So please keep the ideas coming!

[Hallsy86 0]

The teams in Utah are in USA Hockey's Sr. Elite Div.

[BarDownGinos 3]

Thank you! I do appreciate this.

I mis spoke when I originally compared what I am going after to the league stated above and the GLHL. I was thinking bigger than I should have. I would like it to be similar in format. I do not expect fans, in fact I just want to do this so that players in the area who want to play contact hockey can play contact hockey. The rest would be a bonus. We would be paying our own way. Car pooling more than anything. Basically a level of adult hockey somehow connected with USA Hockey. These are the key ingredients for me. No one will be making any money outside of the rinks we are paying to let us use the ice and yes...the Dr.'s I am sure many will visit. I have been down and out with the flu recently so I have not been on the ball. Hearing the outside perspectives has been very helpful and I appreciate all of it. I will be contacting USA Hockey next to see if this is even possible. So please keep the ideas coming!

You don't have to use USAH. There are other forms of insurance you can get if that's what you're looking for. But aside from that, you don't need them for anything. A good injury/death waiver goes a long way to mitigating any issues.

[skyscrape 5]

Interesting. I was under the impression that if a hockey event is USA Hockey and a player gets injured they are covered under the insurance.

[BarDownGinos 3]

Interesting. I was under the impression that if a hockey event is USA Hockey and a player gets injured they are covered under the insurance.

USAH is supplemental insurance to what you have yourself. They come into play for a "catastrophic injury" there's a thread in here about trying to file a claim on USAH INsurance. You might want to check it out.

[skyscrape 5]

USAH is supplemental insurance to what you have yourself. They come into play for a "catastrophic injury" there's a thread in here about trying to file a claim on USAH INsurance. You might want to check it out.

Thanks, this is the kind of stuff I am trying to figure out. Appreciate it very much.

[twolinepass 0]

Actually, just FYI.... AIHL knows they are not the RHI. The problem is, the RHI model isn't feasible for ANYTHING that currently exists in the Roller market right now. AIHL, MLRH, PIHA - they all know this.

And it expands beyond local. It's actually more regional, than it is locally - and there is a national Semi-Finals and Championship.

It's not nearly what people would like it to be, but please, don't marginalize something you don't really know enough about...

I have been to elite and minor games, I know people in the photo on the top right ;)

My point was nobody outside of friends for family knows or really cares about the league and players have to pay their way to anything. When teams in the area fold because players dont want to travel for games it says something about the league..