Near-Novice Skater, Have CCM 692 Tacks - Should I buy New Skates?

[DigDug 5]

I have a brand new pair of CCM 692 Tacks that I purchased 6 years ago and used twice. I'm a useless skater (that is, I can skate but not good enough to play hockey by any means - I can do cross-overs and the like but nothing is second nature). I bought the 692's to get back into skating but due to work commitments never had the chance to continue learning then. Fast forward 6 years, I found the Tacks during my move and finally want to get good at skating! I'm pretty sure theyare sized correctly, but my feet hurt so bad after a half-hour or so on the ice. I have to de-lace the skates and even then they hurt for 10 minutes or so till I can walk on them. Unsure if I'm lacing too tight or the skates are too narrow, though I have the E size. I suspect that the pain comes from just being unused to being on skates - it's the full foot ache that goes down the sides of my feet in the midfoot region.

Have there been any great advances in comfort that would warrant me buying another skate, even though these 692 Tacks are brand new? As far as the Tacks go, aren't these supposed to be comfortable skates? What exactly does the "692" reveal abut the skate - is it a low-end skate, mid-range or what? I can't remember the research I did back when I bought them but now it's hard to find anything about them on the Net as it seems the the whole line has been discontinued?!

[number21 3]

Give you feet some time to adjust. When I started to get into hockey in my mid20s, I had never really skated before and had foot pain similar to yours. I would have to loosen my skates or take them off to relieve the pain.

Since you are just getting back into it, experiment with how tight you lace them and where. I had to leave the laces a little loose across the middle of my foot and lace them tight up top.

Also, superfeet yellow insoles can be very helpful. I have pretty flat feet and my feet would cramp in the arches, the superfeet helped quite a bit there.

[wrangler 157]

Your feet are trying to tell you something. With that much pain, they're trying very hard.

I think that the first thing you need to do is find out if the skates fit you properly. A good LHS may help.

[Chadd 916]

It's hard to tell why the skate is causing your pain without being more specific. It very well could be an arch/depth issue or something completely different.

[natbat 0]

I guess the question is, How did the skates feel 6 years ago?

[wrangler 157]

It doesn't matter. Feet can change over time, and the fit now is what counts.

[DigDug 5]

Wow, so many responses! Very grateful for the help. To answer some questions:

1. How I determined sizing.

If I remember correctly, I went to a skate shop that wasn't very helpful at all, and sort of just handed me things I asked for. I had done a bunch of reading, and learned that CCM's Tacks were generally the widest skate around, and given that I have wide feet, I primarily focused on this brand (and don't quite remember how I ended up on the 692's, but I think it may because it had been middle of the line). I had to do my own sizing, and followed the advice of "Puckmugger" in this Posting to a T:

A perfect fitting on a hockey skate is best described as this: When sitting with the boots first on and not laced, they might feel uncomfortably short. Don’t panic. First you should kick back into the boot. Kick the heel of the skate on the floor a couple of times to make sure your heel is settled back. Next lace the skates up and make sure they are tight. The forefoot area should be snug, but not crushing. As you get to where the eyelets start to turn towards the vertical portion of the boot, tighten these up a little tighter. This will pull your heel back into the proper position. When laced and still sitting, you might still feel like the skates are too short. Don’t make your judgment yet. With both skates on and laced tight, stand up. You should notice a little less pressure on your toes at this point. Pay close attention though as they should still touch the end of the skate. Now the important part, bend your knees so they are over your toes. You should feel your toes pull off the toecap or still be just lightly brushing against them. This is the perfect length of boot for you.

I wear a size 11 wide-width shoe (when I can find wide widths!), and ended up with a 9.5 E-Width skate, which was the widest width I believed CCM to make.

2. How did the skates feel 6 years ago?

For the 2 or so times I skated with them, this occurred then, which I remember was suprising to me back then, because I had them baked in an F-I-T machine at Gerry Cosby's and had read about how the baking experience practically eliminated break-in.

Question for You All:

I've spent so much time scouring the web on skate sizing and I get completely conflicting opinions. Some folks say that skates are never comfortable and especially during the break-in, they hurt like hell. Others say that baking the skates eliminates break-in and they feel "great" from the get go, some going so far to say they feel like a tennis shoe! Without having an understanding of how a hockey skate should feel, how am I supposed to determine if what I'm feeling is normal-level pain (and I'm just being a wimp) or if there is something in fact wrong, and I'm enduring unecessary discomfort?

I do know that when I tighten the laces tighter, I feel so much "better" on the ice (though I can't explain eaxctly why), and when keeping things looser, my foot feels more wobbly, and cross-overs, for example, become far harder. If I were to go to a pro shop, is there a way that they'd be able to somehow objectively determine if my foot is properly fit? If they'll have to ask me whether it fits well, the honest answer is that *I don't know*! To address, Chadd's thought, I honestly don't know whether its an arch/depth issue and don't know how to go about finding out. I'm not even sure how to tell when a skate is "broken-in" - I assumed that meant that it stops hurting.

Sorry for the rambling, just hoping that with the collective expertise here I can finally nail this conundrum down! Thanks a bunch, seriously.

[wrangler 157]

OK, I'll repeat the concepts once for emphasis: Skates are not supposed to hurt you. A good LHS can help you get the best fit.

Don't waste your time with all those opinions you mentioned regarding pain and break-in. They're worthless to you without knowledge of how good or bad a fit those people got. Keep in mind that a lot of people never bother to get a good fit, but some of them manage to avoid problems anyway.

[AIREAYE 248]

OK, I'll repeat the concepts once for emphasis: Skates are not supposed to hurt you. A good LHS can help you get the best fit.

Don't waste your time with all those opinions you mentioned regarding pain and break-in. They're worthless to you without knowledge of how good or bad a fit those people got. Keep in mind that a lot of people never bother to get a good fit, but some of them manage to avoid problems anyway.

QFT, if anything can be boiled down like this, it would be this.

[DigDug 5]

I can tell that's sage advice Wrangler and appreciate it. When you say skates "aren't supposed to hurt", can you put some context on that, if I'm not being too much of a PITA? There are folks in this thread who mentioned similar pain. But your advice to go to an LHS is going to be followed. I'm heading to the Ice House (Darkstar50's place) just as soon as I get the chance.

[wrangler 157]

I don't understand the question. I don't know what "context" is, or how it can help you understand lack of pain. And I think I clearly stated my opinion of other folks' pain stories.

I'm sure Darkstar50 will take care of you, and he knows more about this than I do.

[natbat 0]

I can tell that's sage advice Wrangler and appreciate it. When you say skates "aren't supposed to hurt", can you put some context on that, if I'm not being too much of a PITA? There are folks in this thread who mentioned similar pain. But your advice to go to an LHS is going to be followed. I'm heading to the Ice House (Darkstar50's place) just as soon as I get the chance.

I am sorry, But I have never met a person that didn't have some type of foot pain when breaking in new skates. Even the best fiiting pair of skates need to break-in and mold to your feet. Especially with the material skates are made out of today. In the article you quoted, he also says that skates shouldn't be very comfortable either. if skates are not supposed to hurt then I have never had a pair of "properly fitted skates" in my entire life. A few other things that I also think should be mentioned are your ability, weight, and biometrics. Even the best fitting skates are not going to correct an-out-of alignmnet stride, or the incorrect pressure your body is putting on your skates. When you are learning how to skate your body has to adjust and balance over the blade. This causes a great deal of stress on your feet and leg muscles and causes some type of pain. Excess weight on a person places more pressure on their feet. I think the most important time to get a properly fiitng skate is for someone who is learning how to skate. I know they shouldnt cut off the circulation in your legs or feet. I would explain the pain as mild and as soon as you take the skates off it gets better... and over time goes away.

[number21 3]

I am not saying anyone is wrong about pain. I don't know the ins and outs of fitting.

In my personal experience my feet had to adjust to skating and stiffer hockey skates. I tried serveral brands and had the same cramping. Over time it went away and I have tried different brands since and my feet don't cramp up even in a skate that is uncomfortably narrow for my feet.

Like I said superfeet helped me alot, but so did just plain old skating.

[wrangler 157]

I am sorry, But I have never met a person that didn't have some type of foot pain when breaking in new skates. Even the best fiiting pair of skates need to break-in and mold to your feet. Especially with the material skates are made out of today. In the article you quoted, he also says that skates shouldn't be very comfortable either. if skates are not supposed to hurt then I have never had a pair of "properly fitted skates" in my entire life.

Never? I'll be your first -- pleased to meet you.

As to your final sentence, you're the best judge of your skate fittings. And I find it hard to believe you're suggesting that skates are supposed to hurt.

[natbat 0]

Never? I'll be your first -- pleased to meet you.

As to your final sentence, you're the best judge of your skate fittings. And I find it hard to believe you're suggesting that skates are supposed to hurt.

I want to be clear.....I am speaking of the break-in period... and I am sorry if I wasn't clear.

And you are one lucky guy!!! I am not being a smart butt.

I say it with confidence because every time a fellow player or coach gets new skates they usually complain the first few times on the ice...they also make the new skate face as myself and friends call it.

[jbss71 1]

I want to be clear.....I am speaking of the break-in period... and I am sorry if I wasn't clear.

And you are one lucky guy!!! I am not being a smart butt.

I say it with confidence because every time a fellow player or coach gets new skates they usually complain the first few times on the ice...they also make the new skate face as myself and friends call it.

break in discomfort, and cut off your foot pain, is not the same.

[wrangler 157]

I want to be clear.....I am speaking of the break-in period... and I am sorry if I wasn't clear.

And you are one lucky guy!!! I am not being a smart butt.

I say it with confidence because every time a fellow player or coach gets new skates they usually complain the first few times on the ice...they also make the new skate face as myself and friends call it.

I've formed the opinion that most folks, maybe even a large majority of them, don't get properly fitted. That's why I won't accept pain, even during break-in, as something everyone should have to deal with. Yes, it can happen, I consider avoiding it an achievable objective.

And I believe that skates are designed to work without pain, and that they are not supposed to hurt.

[natbat 0]

I've formed the opinion that most folks, maybe even a large majority of them, don't get properly fitted. That's why I won't accept pain, even during break-in, as something everyone should have to deal with. Yes, it can happen, I consider avoiding it an achievable objective.

And I believe that skates are designed to work without pain, and that they are not supposed to hurt.

I fully respect your opinion. I dont want people thinking they should "suck it up" either. It is a complicated topic, for sure!

[AIREAYE 248]

I agree with wrangler, and I'm your second! I also think that the lower quality skate, the higher chance that some discomfort will occur. But then again, most people EXPECT new skates to be uncomfortable, whether blatantly or sub consciously and that also plays a part in thinking there's pain. To what extent? I wouldn't know.

[wrangler 157]

Absolutely, with poorly made skates. My mother bought me my first pair of skates at the dime store, out of a barrel of skates on sale. The boots were as thin as gloves, and I couldn't get any support from them. The blades would go one way or the other, and the heel cups cut into my feet near the ankle bones, breaking the skin, and making them bleed. I would tape gauze pads over the area to protect it. I played mostly on my knees. After I figured out I didn't have "weak ankles", I lobbied for a $20 (1965 dollars) pair of Bauers, and immediately realized that my feet had not been the problem. The Bauers, even though the bottom of their line, did not hurt me, and I then began to learn to skate. I've found hockey to be a lot more fun standing up, but I can still make the occasional play from my knees, if I must.

[ridindirty 11]

I agree with Wrangler. That being said, I havent always found a good LHS is the answer. They do their best, but I have found their recommendations to be off more than a couple times.

I was getting back into skating ~8 years ago. I went to buy new skates. I wore Tacks when i was younger. I have a flat arch with a narrow heal. I went to one LHS. He carried Nike, Bauer and Easton. He tried putting me in Nikes, but I didnt like them. I bought Vapor XXX's (whatever the second to the top of the line skate was). They KILLED my feet. I brought them back.

So I went out and found a LHS with CCM's and Graf's. This guy put me in 903's (according to Graf, the right skate for me). These kiled my feet. I tried 905's. These killed my feet. I kinda fell back out of hockey because I was getting busy. I sold those skates. Fast foward to 18 months ago. I want to get back into it. So I decided F this. I bought old school Black Tack 652's. I would have bought Kevlar 752's if I could find a nice pair. They were 20 bucks on ebay and basically new. I LOVE them. They fit awesome. They do not hurt my feet at all. If you ask an LHS, they would probably tell you a Tack or todays Reebok footbed is wide for my foot. I'd have to disagree. I am going to get a pair of Reeboks soon.

I dont know, before trying all those skates that were "supposed" to fit right, I never had a skate hurt my arch in my life. They KILLED my feet, even after skating in them 6-8 times. I could never put up with that. I am not sure how some of you guys do.

[Chadd 916]

I am sorry, But I have never met a person that didn't have some type of foot pain when breaking in new skates.

That is not true at all. Advice like that is what causes people to buy skates that don't fit.

[RussianDangler15 0]

I second what chadd said, I don't think I've had any pain with my last two pairs of skates.

[natbat 0]

That is not true at all. Advice like that is what causes people to buy skates that don't fit.

What? It wasn't advice. It was an observation over 25 years of playing the sport. If I observed people having no problems then I would mention that, but I haven't. Look over this website. There is much proof that most people experience pain when breaking in skates. Again, it doesn’t matter how good a skate fitter you are, that is only one piece of the puzzle. I got in touch with my old equipment manager from the last team I played for. (I want him to help us out at our rink with several teams equipment issues from Mite to Midget AAA), He has over 30 years’ experience as an equipment manager for junior teams in USA and Canada (Now retired). He told me throughout all his years in the industry very few players experience little to no problems. He spent most of his time fitting and adjusting skates for players. Every player is different and every player has unique foot issues. The proof he saw was how messed up players feet were after all the years wearing skates. Again, it is what I have observed and continue to observe. Again not advice! If you don't experience pain then that is great. There is one point he wants me to clarify. "Pain" and "issues" are two different beasts. You can have issues without pain. so what I am observing is most people have Issues and or pain when breaking in skates. And just because a skate hurts them ((during Break In)) does not mean it is the wrong skate for them. Little aches and pains are ok, even a blister isn't a red flag.. If your foot goes numb.... there is a problem. "Issues" usually refer to performance issues such as feel, response, radius, and profile. If I didn't have proof I wouldn't say anything. Now that I have a 68 year old professional agreeing with me I feel even more confident. He also agrees with wrangler and aireaye points of view. He also feels Bauer, CCM, Easton, and Reebok have no right selling their product to almost anybody....this is where the problem lies. You have a very expensive and complicated issue that any idiot with a store and a sharpener can get involved in.

Another point my kind friend made is... players usually have a pair of back up skates, especially in the AHL, IHL, and NHL. There are two main reasons for this. Have a pair of skates ready to go if you have a problem during a game. Second, when you put on those back-up pair of skates they fit and perform properly. With your theory, players just need the exact same skate in the locker room never worn, just sharpened up. Diddug just be lucky enough to find a person like my friend that can send you down the right path and you will be fine.

My advice is go find a skilled skate fitter, which is one in a million in the Metro Detroit area (after JR left). Talk to him, tell him your concerns. If he doesn’t want to listen, walk out and try another. A skilled fitter will work with you and should still want to help AFTER you purchased the skates. Be honest about your ability, and for now, stay away from the top of the line skates. It is a very complicated topic, and that is why I am currently looking at a Blackstone machine, currently own a Bauer oven, and getting trained by a proven professional. Try to get some advice from JR. I had a great personal experience with him years ago. If he was still in the Detroit area, I would send all the parents and players his way.

I would love to have a vote:

1) Do you experience pain when breaking in skates?

[DigDug 5]

It seems that the isn't so clear cut after all. The more recent posts sort of echo my experience as well as countless others I've read through, which is the "context" I was hoping you'd speaker, Wrangler.

For those of you who fit who administer fittings, what is your procedure? Thanks for all this input! I'm learning a ton.