Help: Old Player Needs New Gear - Skate & Stick Advice Sought

[Over Drive 0]

First – apologies for yet another “help me” thread.

Second – apologies for the detailed post but I figure if you take the time to read and consider my post I will certainly have consider and respect any advice you have to offer.

Since returning to playing regularly I have realized my ancient equipment is in dire need of replacement. I love my 650 Tacks but I hate taking pucks in foot - my foot is still bruised from blocking a shot almost three weeks ago. My skates fit like an old pair of slippers but they offer about as much protection from clappers. My Easton aluminium shafts have lost their snap after 20 years and I wasted a good $100 buying an inappropriate stick from a sales person that either had no clue or was simply looking to move the stick he put me into. I should have done a little research before buying a stick but you would figure the sales person could have pointed out a few minor details. I sure do have a sweet shinny stick though.

I need to purchase almost all new gear as I have owned everything but my helmet and gloves since '92-'93. After '95 I rarely played and certainly not enough to bother going out and purchasing anything but sticks. Now that I play frequently in a “competitive setting” I really need to upgrade. Needless to say the few sporting goods stores in my area seem to have staff members that lack experience and seem to have very little knowledge of the products they are selling which is why I am here.

I am a towering 5'7” and a hefty 155 lbs. I play two or three times a week in a competitive recreational league. I also coach Timbits twice a week, take my son skating a few times a week and play the odd game of shinny. I am on the ice a lot. While I will use those 'other' ice times to break my new skates in I will most likely continue to use my old Tacks for everything but 'real' games. I do not mind spending money on quality equipment but I do not see any point in buying high-end items from which I will not be able to reap the all of the benefits. It would be nice to get a little mileage out of a new pair of skates but I do not expect to get 20 years out of a modern pair.

So far I have been in and tried out a wide variety of skates but I find myself leaning towards Bauer. Rebok Pump models kill my lower shins when I assume a skating stance and CCMs are decent but nothing special. My feet are a size 8.5 to 9 depending on the shoe brand and I have found that 7.5s seem to be comfortable although I have read that they my elongate as they break in. I have average to slightly wide flat feet. I understand that the Bauer lines are designed and fit differently but I have found that both Vapor (EE) and Supreme ® skates feel decent as long as I make the width adjustment in the Vapors. I fully intend to go in and try on a number of skates again but some of the higher end models are not available locally. I should also mention there are a number of models available that use 'names' in place of typical model numbers although websites usually state what model the skate is based on.

My main question is what level of skate to purchase. I would describe myself as an intermediate skater and I use both long power strides and short choppy skating styles depending on the situation. That makes the Vapor vs Supreme design distinction moot. I do tend to have a quite low stance when skating so flexibility in the tongue is essential and why I dislike the Pumps so much. Would I be fine with a X3.0 or One60 or should I be looking for something higher end in the X5.0 + or the Supreme One80 + range? I really like the reviews and look of the Supreme One100 LEs but I have a feeling they might be too much skate for me.

In terms of sticks I think I might try an Intermediate stick in the 65 area. That or the Senior with the lowest flex rating and the most whip I can find. I use mostly wrist and snap shots although I do float the odd slap shot now and again. I will need to cut a few inches off either model and (obviously) more so the Senior.

Thanks for your time and consideration.

[Vet88 674]

When the dollars really count, my advice is to take your time when buying gear and aim for upper market models that are one or two seasons old. Work out what size you are in protective gear and then search online thru eBay, craigslist and forums (such as here and IW). Eventually you will find excellent gear, sometimes near new but often one or two seasons old that are even new with tags. For example I got some brand new S17 elbow pads the other day for $35 and near new Rbk 10k shin guards (09 model) for $50 shipped. Downside is it can sometimes take months to find what you are after, perseverance is the key. And don't forget close out sales at your LHS. I gather you will be wearing gear in the mens small range so you often find good gear in this size still for sale and most good LHS's will take an offer.

If your skates are still good and comfortable, you can solve the protective issue with a pair of skate fenders. Some say it looks naff but more and more pros are starting wear them, I'm sure you will understand why given your current situation. Then you can take your time looking for skates, trying on what team mates use and hunting online.

As to sticks, if you are aiming for the 65 to 75 flex range there isn't a lot on line. Not a lot of pros use this flex but if you know a LHS that sells pro stock sticks you often can pick up these flex's at the end of the season sales, especially if you like a Drury type curve. If you are cutting an intermediate stick to get the right height then I'd stick with this at a 65 flex until you feel comfortable in moving up a flex. Depending on the curve you are after, I occasionally see intermediate 65 flex sticks online for around $80.

Over the the last 3 years I've managed to fit myself and 2 kids out in gear, all purchased online, all based on what I suggested above at about a third of the cost of brand new top of the line. I keep looking at the new gear coming out in the shops and whilst it would be nice to have the latest and greatest, the protective capability that S17 / 19, XXXX, one90 / 95, 9k etc ranges offer are still top notch.

[wrangler 157]

Second the motion on skates. If they're doing the job, there is no reason to replace them. If you're worried about protection, buy protection, e.g. skate fenders -- not skates, Save your money for the other stuff you need to buy.

[Over Drive 0]

Thanks for the insight.

In regards to skates mine do need to be replaced. They are probably going on 20 years old now and are definitely showing alot of miles. I think I am on my fourth set of blades on them, some of the stiching is starting to go, the toes are getting chewed and a few eyelets are going.

I have tried on a few more skates and I am still liking the Bauer lines which both seem to fit me decently. I tried the CCMs again as well and they felt better this time around.

I cannot find any Bauer Supreme One100 LEs in the 7 to 7.5 range anywhere locally or online in the US and Canada. I found an online retailer from Australia that seems to have really good prices on skates and they are willing to ship but I am waiting to see if they have my size in stock. I am pretty sure the One100s are a quality skate but I am still a little concerned that they might be a little to much for me and that I will not be able to properly break them in.

If I can find a few Senior shafts in really low flex I will go for those but I have yet to find anything under 80 before cutting. I tried out a few Intermediate sticks yesterday and they felt fine in terms of diameter.

[bandits_5 18]

vapor 4.0 , supreme one70 , ccm u+08 are all skates in the 2 - 300 dollar range. Also the easton s12 are on sale in most places for around 180-200 dollars. Find the one that fits you best , and youll be happy. there all good intermediate level skates that should last you quite a while for rec leagues and coaching. Good luck in your hunt. Its exciting and alot of fun " searching for skates" . just take your time and in the end youll be happy with your purchase!

[Over Drive 0]

It certainly is fun to tryout and shop for new gear. The thought of new technology and new gear actually makes me want to play even more. The best part is that unlike when I was younger I can buy the product that is 'tailored' to my body and style of play as I can now afford to purchase whatever model I want.

The more I read the more I am leaning towards getting a skate in which my toes are just touching the end of the skate as it seems they will elongate a little after breaking in. All of the sales staff I have delt with seem to feel my toes should not touch the end of the skate in any regard. I do want that snug feel so I think a 7 might be more appropriate if they will indeed give a little.

More test drives today! I might try on some pants as well. Kid in a candy store!

Again, thanks for the insight.

The prospect of increasing the power of my shot is probably the most appealing. I feel it has been the worst part of my game by far since returning to the ice and now that I understand that I will have a hard time using a 100 flex stick for optimal wrist and snap shots I cannot wait to try out an appropriate twig. Looks like a whip is what I really need.

[danno25nh 3]

Welcome back to the game. One thing stands out in your posts. You're fixated on getting a stick with some "whip" to it. After a long break from the game I would guess your technique is the main problem. I jumped back in the game a couple years ago and noticed my shot was horrible. My teammates all gave me advice about sticks.

I ignored all the flex this and kick point that. I grabbed one of the CHL players and had him look at my shot. In 10 minutes he fixed my shot.

Then and only then did I mess with flex profiles. I suspect it saved me a lot of money and time.

[coffeebreak 0]

I am a very similar size to you. I also wear an 8.5 to 9 shoe, more often on the 9 side due to the width. I came back a couple of years ago from Tacks 652. I currently use Graf 705 size 7 but had to stretch them out to fit but great on length. I feel I might even fit a 6.5. I tried a Bauer One60 and hated it. I would echo the suggestion of a good intermediate to high end skate. There is not necessarily a need to go all the way to the top. If you are looking at Bauer's don't forget to consider the Flexlites. The new line is coming in so you might find a great deal. I'm sorry to hear that you received bad advice on a stick. But you're best bet is to find a good LHS that is really knowledgeable. Best is to ask the guys in the locker room or the coaches in Timbits. You'll get a lot more value with your skate fitting with the LHS and stick choice. This board can also help suggest which might be the best shop. They can stretch and fit your boot properly.

I tried a 65 flex. Had elbow problems and now use a 75 flex senior stick with a wood blade. Now the stick feels like old times with great power.

[number21 3]

I am no skate fitter, but I have been participating here for a number of years and I can never recall anyone in the business mentioning skates elongating during break in. They might break-in in the width, but I doubt skates change much in length. Again, I am not skate fitter though.

I have feet that are the verge of being a wide size in skate with very low arches. Vapors kill me feet (I never skated in their wide though), Eastons (500s a few years ago) in wide worked well but thoese lower level skates broke down fast on me. CCM (Vectors) just didn't feel good for me. I finally settled on older Bauer Supremes for my feet.

Like someone mentioned you could look for the Flexlites since they are a wide (and deep I think) skate. Since they are being phased out, you may find a deal. Have you tried the new Eastons? From what I have read here, they have gotten better in their durability.

Best bet, read shop reviews and get fit somewhere locally. Trust me, reading online and trying/buying blind online just causes you frustration and you'll probably loose money.

--

I usually see Sherwood shafts available in SR lower flexes. I think the newer stick and shaft lines coming out this spring/summer are making lower SR flexes more available (depending on what shops order though of course).

[Over Drive 0]

After a long break from the game I would guess your technique is the main problem.

No doubt - there are many aspects of my game that have faded and I am guessing my shot is one of the biggest. I am not even shure my shot was all that gerat to begin with!

I will definitely be striving to improve my technique however I can. My main problem with the stick I have now is that I can barely flex it with a slap shot. There is zero give to the stick unless I use 100% of my power.

I am a very similar size to you. I also wear an 8.5 to 9 shoe, more often on the 9 side due to the width. I came back a couple of years ago from Tacks 652. I currently use Graf 705 size 7 but had to stretch them out to fit but great on length. I feel I might even fit a 6.5. I tried a Bauer One60 and hated it. I would echo the suggestion of a good intermediate to high end skate. There is not necessarily a need to go all the way to the top. If you are looking at Bauer's don't forget to consider the Flexlites. The new line is coming in so you might find a great deal. I'm sorry to hear that you received bad advice on a stick. But you're best bet is to find a good LHS that is really knowledgeable. Best is to ask the guys in the locker room or the coaches in Timbits. You'll get a lot more value with your skate fitting with the LHS and stick choice. This board can also help suggest which might be the best shop. They can stretch and fit your boot properly.

I tried a 65 flex. Had elbow problems and now use a 75 flex senior stick with a wood blade. Now the stick feels like old times with great power.

My next shopping trip will definitely involve trying out a few smaller sizes in various boots. I have not been able to tick the end of the skates with my toes in any of the size 7.5 skates I have tried thus far. Again, I have relied on the advice of the (very) young sales staff in selecting a size. If I am not mistaken, all of the sales persons have recommended only stepping down a half or one full size from my regular shoe size.

I had thought that the Bauer One60 was an intermediate skate. I think this is where alot of my apprehension lies. I have no idea where the strong Intermediate choices start. Unfortunately there are no shops handy that sell Graf skates - my local Cleve's no longer stocks the skate. I live in a small town and even the chain stores do not keep stock on hand of every skate they carry. It makes the hunt much more dfficult when you cannot sample every boot.

I still have several blades kicking around so the shaft/blade combo might be a good option for me.

I am no skate fitter, but I have been participating here for a number of years and I can never recall anyone in the business mentioning skates elongating during break in. They might break-in in the width, but I doubt skates change much in length. Again, I am not skate fitter though.

I usually see Sherwood shafts available in SR lower flexes. I think the newer stick and shaft lines coming out this spring/summer are making lower SR flexes more available (depending on what shops order though of course).

I was more referring to the posts I have read about the heel settling in a bit and opening up the toe area accordingly - but I could be way off on that too. I will have a look out for those low-flex Sherwood shafts. I believe I still have several blades kicking around.

Thanks for the replies.

[vf-x 0]

I'm about the same size as you. An inch shorter, and but a few pounds heavier. And like you, I'm back into hockey after quite a few years out of it; only playing a handful of games a year at best.

In terms of sticks, the biggest thing I noticed was the availability of intermediate flex sticks, and the concept of stick lie (like golf clubs). My LHS had me try sticks with different flexes, and even had me up on skates to see which lie worked for my height and general stance. I ended up with a 67 flex stick cut down so its more like 74 (according to manufacturer specs), and with a lie where the bottom of the blade sits more or less flat on the ice. I've notice improvements in both wrist and slap shots (as in, "Wow! The puck actually has some speed and gets off the ice." lol) as a result.

In terms of other gear, I've been looking for sales or coupons (or both :), and have been able to pick up some good quality gear for some very reasonable prices. Like one of the other posters wrote, you may be able to find high-end gear from previous years at great prices. I'm not sure what part of the world you're in, so YMMV.

Good luck with your search. Enjoy it. I did :)

[bostonjuniorblackhawks 1]

How much do you cut your sticks down?

[S'land9.16.7 6]

I read your posts and the first thing that jumped out too me was the vapour vs supreme thing. You should be concerned 100% with fit and not which skate is supposedly better for a certain skating style, as I feel thats just marketing on Bauer's side. I also wear size 10.5 TotalONE's and my shoe size is a 12. Good luck with the rest of your searches!

[Over Drive 0]

In terms of sticks, the biggest thing I noticed was the availability of intermediate flex sticks, and the concept of stick lie (like golf clubs).

...

In terms of other gear, I've been looking for sales or coupons (or both :), and have been able to pick up some good quality gear for some very reasonable prices. Like one of the other posters wrote, you may be able to find high-end gear from previous years at great prices. I'm not sure what part of the world you're in, so YMMV.

Good luck with your search. Enjoy it. I did :)

I was in this afternoon and I think I am going to try out something similar to the tune of a 65 flex with an inch cutoff for a 70ish flex. I skate such that i think a 4 or 5 lie will work for me.

I usually hate shopping but I must admit to enjoying looking for hockey gear.

How much do you cut your sticks down?

I end up with a stick aproximately 60"-61" which puts the knob between my mouth and nose.

I read your posts and the first thing that jumped out too me was the vapour vs supreme thing. You should be concerned 100% with fit and not which skate is supposedly better for a certain skating style, as I feel thats just marketing on Bauer's side. I also wear size 10.5 TotalONE's and my shoe size is a 12. Good luck with the rest of your searches!

Yes - I thought I mentioned that the "Speedy vs Power" designation or marketing did not really apply to me as both skates feel pretty good. I still need to figure out which feel better though. I think the Vapors fit my skating profile more but are a little snug in the width department. I felt the X4.0s were stiffer yet close in feel to the X3.0s. They did not have any X5.0s or X40s in my size. I tried the APX and they felt damn near bullet proof but very nice. The Supremes One60/70 are somewhat like my Tacks in stance and the width of the boot seems a little better matched for my foot. I wish they had a pair of One80s and One100s that I would try out.

As an aside, I tried a few more skates on today. Unfortunately, the store I visited did not have many styles in my size. I pulled the insoles on each skate first and I am now quite confident that I should be going with a 7 and not a 7.5 as I thought before. When sitting I can feel the end of the skate but as soon as my knees pass over my feet in the skating position the sit back nicely. I am also confident that I will need an E or EE skate.

I tried a Rebok 6K and I found that as soon as I assumed a skating position the top of the boot/tounges hurt my low shin area quite a bit. My brother has the same problem but I believe he said his were getting a little better after 2-3 skates. The Bauers Vapors and Supremes both are a little stiff in that lower shin but nothing like the Reboks. Is this a depth issue?

I am going to head out again tonight and try to find a few Easton models to try. I might buy a stick as well - we have a game against a team that we really need to beat and take both points.

[Vet88 674]

How to work out the length of your boots for fit -

Take with you the socks you want to wear whilst skating. Sock on, pull the lace out, pull the tongue out, slide foot into boot and make toes feather the toe cap. Bend forward over the skate and see if you can slide a pencil down the back of your heel. If you can they are too big, if you can't then they are getting close to the right size. Ideal sizing is you have around a 1 - 2mm gap at the back of your heel. Whilst skates will will not get any longer (unless forcibly stretched) they do widen and this can allow your foot to sit further forward hence creating the impression they have "lengthened".

[Over Drive 0]

With regards to the skate 'elongating' what I have read from several trainers and sales professionals is that the lining in the heel area will compress and provide a little more length.

[Vet88 674]

It is worth considering that the material in the boot gets slightly reshaped by your heel as you break the boot in. I'd suspect you would get no more than a 1mm or so of adjustment (I haven't seen anything larger than this) so the pencil test still applies. As you are feathering the toes in size 7 this looks to be the perfect length for you.

[bostonjuniorblackhawks 1]

I end up with a stick aproximately 60"-61" which puts the knob between my mouth and nose.

An uncut senior stick is about that length from heel to toe which is how most manufacturers measure length IIRC

If an intermediate is too whippy for you, you could potentially use a 77 flex mid kick stick like a one80 if you don't cut your sticks down too much. I'm guessing 5- 6 inches of a senior stick?

[Over Drive 0]

An uncut senior stick is about that length from heel to toe which is how most manufacturers measure length IIRC

If an intermediate is too whippy for you, you could potentially use a 77 flex mid kick stick like a one80 if you don't cut your sticks down too much. I'm guessing 5- 6 inches of a senior stick?

I actually bought a cheap Intermediate stick last night and played a game with it: a Rebook SickKick III (NHL Bronze Series). Its rounded shaft is very close to a Senior sized shaft - I cannot tell the difference with my gloves on. I took about 1 3/4" off of the stick so I am guessing it is just shy of a 70 flex. The whip will take some getting used to but I like it better than my Senior that I can barely flex. I think I would be happy with a Senior with a 75ish flex cut to my size - around 60" from toe on the floor to my upper lip.

Every Senior stick I looked at last night (in two different shops) were 75 flex or greater uncut. Every stick cut to my length would have been in the 90 flex area. Do you think I could get away with a One80 cut down 5" or so?

I think I will hit a few stores and try on a few more pairs of skates and some shin pads this evening. While I am there I will check out a One80 if i can find one.

[MarsB 33]

Check out TPS- they make senior sticks in a whip flex (70) and can be found for pretty good deals if you look around.

[vf-x 0]

I don't know what your budget is, which is why I didn't mention it earlier, but I'm loving my X:60 intermediates. They're a bit pricy, but I've found some better prices now that they're last year's model (vs. APX which is new).

[Over Drive 0]

Check out TPS- they make senior sticks in a whip flex (70) and can be found for pretty good deals if you look around.

The only model my local stores have in stock are the Response and they are all 100.

I don't know what your budget is, which is why I didn't mention it earlier, but I'm loving my X:60 intermediates. They're a bit pricy, but I've found some better prices now that they're last year's model (vs. APX which is new).

I really do not have a budget. My main concern with buying an apex model is that they might be too much skate for me. I recall reading that such a stiff boot might be difficult for me to skate in.

For what its worth, along with my forum research, this is the article from which I have based my skate selection and proper fit upon:

http://www.epinions.com/content_3832651908

[vf-x 0]

I really do not have a budget. My main concern with buying an apex model is that they might be too much skate for me. I recall reading that such a stiff boot might be difficult for me to skate in.

Sorry. I should have mentioned I was talking about sticks, not skates.

I looked at the APX skates myself, but I fit junior sizes and they don't make them retail that small. I opted for X7.0 instead.

[sharks25 9]

If you aren't skating that much or very hard, you rarely want a top of the line skate. The one100s are one of the stiffest skates ever made, so they probably are too much skate. The one80s or one60s are good choices if the supreme line fits. I got skates very tight (size 8.5 and I'm a size 11 shoe) and was touching the toe cap. First 5 skates or so were a bit uncomfortable, but as the heel pocket broke in my foot slid back a touch. They now fit perfect, just feathering the end. So know that they will feel slightly longer after broken in.

I'll try to follow this thread, so if you post a question about anything ill try to answer. Welcome back to the game!

[Over Drive 0]

I tried out the new Bauer TotalOne stick tonight. That is a lovely twig.

Thanks for sharing the information sharks25 - it is much appreciated. which skate did you end up with?

As mentioned I play three times per week in a competitive recreational setting. Two of my team's better players use One100s and they love them. I am thinking that the One60-80 or the X3.0-X5.0 should be just fine for me. I might be able to score an X40 as well. I am still not 100% sold on which boot is best for me - I like certain features of each. I cannot help but think I am missing something since both cuts seems to fit somewhat comfortably. I am still hesitant though as I keep reading that some people say there should be absolutely no pain in breaking a new boot while others say that there will definitely be a break-in period where there will be some discomfot to pain in the process. Both the Supreme and Vapor lines have a little discomfort when i walk in them but i cannot ever remember having a new skate that did not.

Thanks to everyone who has chimed in. I appreciate the insight.