Referees: What makes the good ones good, and bad ones bad?

[IPv6Freely 2087]

I admit this topic came to mind because of some issues we've had in our mens league, but I actually just found this video of Walkom mic'd up during the VAN/BOS finals a couple years ago, and I was very impressed by his communication skills.

Everything from "have a good game" during the opening faceoff, to "what'd he do? Ill keep an eye on him", to "go behind bieks!" (as to avoid them running into each other while the ref gets out of the way off the end boards).

Even one of the older refs in our league (one of the better ones, generally) who talks a lot seems to gain more respect than the kids who just do their thing. I'm starting to see that communication skills are hugely important with a ref, more so than I had ever thought.

So, without turning this into a thread bitching about refs, I'm curious: What makes a good ref good and a bad ref bad? Any specific experiences where these two extremes were defined in your mind? I'm talking real, meaningful experiences, not just "he made a bad call".

[dir3 0]

I think consistancy is a big thing for me, even if the calls are questionable as long as its consistant and you can plan your game around the calls. Nothing worse than getting a penalty for something that gets let go the next time it happens.

Also lazyness gives me the shits, if your not interested enough to pay attention I would rather you not be there if your going to miss calls becasue your chatting to your mate on the sideline/bench whatever

[Jason Harris 31]

Communication. For example, we were in a playoff game during which we appeared to score the tying goal with a minute left. Puck in the net, sticks raised, guys shouting, but no goal by the ref. I came out for the face-off, and since I was the captain, I calmly asked, "Why wasn't that a goal?"

His response was something like, "Just get your stick down or I'll be sending you to the box!"

Afterward, the guy who ran the league said, "I was standing at that end. It was a goal."

What the ref should have said was, "I'm sorry, man, I lost sight of it and blew my whistle thinking the goalie had it. I know it ended up in the net, but I don't know whether that happened before I blew my whistle, so I just couldn't call it a goal."

I became a ref probably the next year and knew that all I wanted as a player was communication, so that's what I gave as a ref.

- When you first start out as a ref, they'll put you at the lowest level of men's league, which is where the players don't have as much control at stopping, so I'd yell out a preemptive, "Inadvertent!" when I saw one guy collide with another, and the guy hit quickly look to see what had happened.

- Since only 5% of players will admit they committed a penalty, I found the best answer to give them when they were complaining was, "Hey, I understand that, but from my angle it looked like a hook."

- That generally worked, but if they tried to ratchet up the arguing from there, I'd tell them, "Look, I'm going to give you two for the hook, but if you keep this up, it's going to be two for unsportsmanlike." "There's no fu$%---" "Okay, that's two for unsportsmanlike."

- Finally, if I heard a guy scream, "What the F#@& was that???!!!" I'd talk to him as soon as I could. It might be nine minutes later before there was a face-off and I was at their bench, but I'd tell them, "Hey, I'm sorry about not calling whatever happened, but the truth is I was so focused on seeing whether the puck had crossed the line, I really didn't see anything else." Almost every time that calmed them down, because most customers just want to be heard.

[IPv6Freely 2087]

^ I agree completely. It's AMAZING how quick a ref can diffuse a situation just by talking to players.

In the case of our league, we have one guy who talks, but what he says is not even remotely constructive. At times, its downright offensive. I don't think a ref should EVER insult a player.

I'd honestly love to be a ref, I've wanted to ever since I was a kid when I realized I sucked at hockey. Especially having Dan Marouelli living next door growing up. I'd do it now, but I can't skate NEARLY well enough.

[ktang 34]

Try reffing - it's a good challenge. Refs who think they've mastered it (usually after about 5 seasons) are suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect; if you're not humble towards the game, the game will humble you. You can start at the lower levels and work your way up as your skating improves. Unless you get killed with a clearing attempt.

2-man reffing is the most difficult, because instead of dividing duties between goals + infractions and offsides + icings, the 2-man refs have to do both. Because of the split in focus, more things get missed. So if a 2-man ref misses something, a good one will admit it, but in my books, not make a "Revlon" makeup call. Just as Jason Harris says above.

As a player, I like refs and linesmen that are fair on the faceoffs (with a flat drop) and only call infractions that lead to a potential scoring opportunity or a positive numeric rush. I also like refs that aren't afraid to make the tough call, instead of trying to not be noticed. I don't buy into the premise of "the best refs are the ones that, after a game, you don't remember them", because in those games you know that the dirtier team got away with more.

As a minor hockey and beer-league ref, I like honourable players and knowledgeable, cool coaches. The refs are the 3rd team on the ice, and the other 2 teams know they have to battle us as well as the other team, but it's better when they own up to infractions and realize that not all infractions will be caught because of the speed of the game. I hate spectators who have never played the game and have the benefit of the far-away view thinking that hockey is such an easy game to call, especially if they don't even know what constitutes offsides.

As a coach, I like refs that will acknowledge the coach, and even if the ref can't talk immediately, lets me know that s/he will get to me when s/he can, and then does so.

[IPv6Freely 2087]

I suppose there is always reffing little kids, probably a lot easier than adults. But seriously, my skating is atrocious. It might just be the hockey pants, or my gut, but even just watching them pick the puck up off the ice while in motion blows my mind. I'd love to do it, but I just don't think I'd be able to.

[sabby47 2]

I was a ref for a few years and understand what a difficult job it is and try to be unbiased when it comes to a ref's decision and just play. I keep my mouth shut and try to keep my teammates calm. Moving to TX has opened my eyes to a whole other world of referrees and I've been very dissapointed with what I've seen. It's kind of sucking the fun out of playing anymore.

Like others have said, I also like a ref who hussles, not being lazy because it's the last game of the night and waving off icings because you want to go home and someone who is in position, trying to stay out of the way of the puck and the players. As far as being vocal, if you're going to talk at all to players who are being respectful or haven't said anything at all, don't talk down to them because that's just going to open up a whole other can of worms. Also, be loud when you're calling for an icing or a delayed off sides, because it cuts down on the confusion when the whistle is blown. It's supposed to be a fun game, so a little joking with both teams and smiling every now and then makes players like you a little more.

[Chadd 916]

^ I agree completely. It's AMAZING how quick a ref can diffuse a situation just by talking to players.

As a ref, you also have to know when talking is not going to help. Sometimes it is a situation, sometimes is a specific player, but you can't get drawn into a discussion about every call. If a player has a question, I answer it and then move on.

As a player, I like refs and linesmen that are fair on the faceoffs (with a flat drop) and only call infractions that lead to a potential scoring opportunity or a positive numeric rush. I also like refs that aren't afraid to make the tough call, instead of trying to not be noticed. I don't buy into the premise of "the best refs are the ones that, after a game, you don't remember them", because in those games you know that the dirtier team got away with more.

I prefer a tighter game when I play, especially because of the last line. The most important things are hustle and consistency though.

[IPv6Freely 2087]

Nah, and I'm not really looking for a discussion. I just mean to say that a simple "sorry, I didnt see it" goes a long way.

[ktang 34]

As a player, I want all impact infractions seen to be called, but more judgment on the impediment infractions. And also not forcing a call that isn't there. Just like squeezing a caught bird too tightly would kill it, and not holding tightly enough would let it fly away, the 2-man refs have to work together to control the game. So as a player, I want some parts of the game to be called more tightly, such as at the end of a period or tight game, when there has been bad blood, etc., and a looser hand when it's warranted.

About the Walkom video: a beer league ref that lets the goal-mouth scrums go 1-2-3 before calling something, "... those first ones were free, anything after I'm calling ..." etc. that Walkom does would lose control of the game. It works at the higher and pro levels, but not for beer leagues. And if the ref were that intense verbally in a late-night beer league game, the players would be going "what are you on?".

[Chadd 916]

As a player, I want all impact infractions seen to be called, but more judgment on the impediment infractions. And also not forcing a call that isn't there. Just like squeezing a caught bird too tightly would kill it, and not holding tightly enough would let it fly away, the 2-man refs have to work together to control the game. So as a player, I want some parts of the game to be called more tightly, such as at the end of a period or tight game, when there has been bad blood, etc., and a looser hand when it's warranted.

About the Walkom video: a beer league ref that lets the goal-mouth scrums go 1-2-3 before calling something, "... those first ones were free, anything after I'm calling ..." etc. that Walkom does would lose control of the game. It works at the higher and pro levels, but not for beer leagues. And if the ref were that intense verbally in a late-night beer league game, the players would be going "what are you on?".

I agree on calling the beer league games more tightly. Everyone has to get up and go to work in the morning, you can't let that kind of stuff go. Of course the 5% of guys that want to play that way are the most vocal when it comes to complaining about officials. That said, I always liked Paul Stewart's way of calling the little face to face pushing matches. If you get in and break it up right away, you'll be doing that all game. Give the players a chance to work it out themselves. They'll either back down or escalate it. Either way, they're going to resolve the problem for you. Obviously, that only works if both parties are actively involved.

[chk hrd 164]

I suppose there is always reffing little kids, probably a lot easier than adults. But seriously, my skating is atrocious. It might just be the hockey pants, or my gut, but even just watching them pick the puck up off the ice while in motion blows my mind. I'd love to do it, but I just don't think I'd be able to.

You must have not watched alot of kids games. They are worse than beer league. You get to deal with coaches who think they are Scotty Bowman and parents who think their kid is the next great one. It's a no win situation most of the times. What most refs fail to do with the kids is talk to them like they are adults. Let them know what they did, tell them good job and treat them with respect. Start teaching them when they are young how to treat a ref and the game would be easier.

[Chadd 916]

You must have not watched alot of kids games. They are worse than beer league. You get to deal with coaches who think they are Scotty Bowman and parents who think their kid is the next great one. It's a no win situation most of the times.

That's why I don't ref kids anymore. The parents and coaches don't care if the call is right or not, they yell and bitch about everything.

[IPv6Freely 2087]

Sorry, what I meant by "easier" was that the pace of play isn't as high, etc. Better for a beginner ref. I can imagine having to deal with parents and coaches makes it not so enjoyable.

[Jason Harris 31]

As a player, I like refs and linesmen that are fair on the faceoffs (with a flat drop) and only call infractions that lead to a potential scoring opportunity or a positive numeric rush.

During the seminar to earn Level 1 reffing, I recall they gave a checklist of when to call a penalty, such as loss of scoring opportunity or loss of possession. I know the purpose was to keep the game flowing, but from a player's perspective -- and a lot of refs don't play -- I felt they were missing something important on their list: potential for retaliation. If a ref innately knows that the type of infraction is one a player would try to get even on, he has to call it even if it didn't change possession or whatever else was on the list. To not do that is just inviting trouble for later in the game.

[Chadd 916]

During the seminar to earn Level 1 reffing, I recall they gave a checklist of when to call a penalty, such as loss of scoring opportunity or loss of possession. I know the purpose was to keep the game flowing, but from a player's perspective -- and a lot of refs don't play -- I felt they were missing something important on their list: potential for retaliation. If a ref innately knows that the type of infraction is one a player would try to get even on, he has to call it even if it didn't change possession or whatever else was on the list. To not do that is just inviting trouble for later in the game.

I used to tell newer guys to call what they see but don't go looking for things to call. They did change the list somewhat after the new standards were introduced.

[JR97 2]

Also, be loud when you're calling for an icing or a delayed off sides, because it cuts down on the confusion when the whistle is blown.

Totally!

I also appreciate refs that are open to suggestion. A few weeks ago my partner and I are chasing a puck that looked like it was going to be an icing but could have gone either way. I'm looking at my goalie who has his arm up and then I'm looking at the ref and his arm was down so I'm yelling at my partner 'No Ice! No Ice!' to make sure he gets to that puck first and I'm busting ass to back him up behind the net looking for the drop. Ref blows the whistle for the icing. This guy is relative new so I felt the need to pipe up.

I tell the ref I'd appreciate it if he'd get his arm up or give a wash-out and/or be vocal so I know what the play is. He said the other ref had his up and didn't see the point on why he had to have is up, too. I explain to him that I'm chasing the puck and can't see the other ref and that I"m looking at my goalie and looking at him to let me know what the call is so I can communicate to my partner what to do so he can make a play and/or protect himself. He said he understood and has been pretty good about it in the games since.

I also think it's the player's responsibility to also communicate professionally when questioning calls. I typically try and ask for clarification versus bitching and whining. Just like everyone else I've had my fair share of iffy calls against me. But I also know I've gotten away with my fare share as well and always appreciate an official giving me the warning or letting me know that I got away with one.

[ktang 34]

During the seminar to earn Level 1 reffing, I recall they gave a checklist of when to call a penalty, such as loss of scoring opportunity or loss of possession. I know the purpose was to keep the game flowing, but from a player's perspective -- and a lot of refs don't play -- I felt they were missing something important on their list: potential for retaliation. If a ref innately knows that the type of infraction is one a player would try to get even on, he has to call it even if it didn't change possession or whatever else was on the list. To not do that is just inviting trouble for later in the game.

Definitely all impact infrations that are seen should be called, but judgment should be exercised for impediment infractions.

I forgot to add: having a thick skin and staying calm in the face of adversity, complaints, disrespect, etc. I'm working on this one.

[Chadd 916]

Totally!

I also appreciate refs that are open to suggestion. A few weeks ago my partner and I are chasing a puck that looked like it was going to be an icing but could have gone either way. I'm looking at my goalie who has his arm up and then I'm looking at the ref and his arm was down so I'm yelling at my partner 'No Ice! No Ice!' to make sure he gets to that puck first and I'm busting ass to back him up behind the net looking for the drop. Ref blows the whistle for the icing. This guy is relative new so I felt the need to pipe up.

I tell the ref I'd appreciate it if he'd get his arm up or give a wash-out and/or be vocal so I know what the play is. He said the other ref had his up and didn't see the point on why he had to have is up, too. I explain to him that I'm chasing the puck and can't see the other ref and that I"m looking at my goalie and looking at him to let me know what the call is so I can communicate to my partner what to do so he can make a play and/or protect himself. He said he understood and has been pretty good about it in the games since.

I also think it's the player's responsibility to also communicate professionally when questioning calls. I typically try and ask for clarification versus bitching and whining. Just like everyone else I've had my fair share of iffy calls against me. But I also know I've gotten away with my fare share as well and always appreciate an official giving me the warning or letting me know that I got away with one.

With USA Hockey procedures the front ref is not supposed to say or do anything if the icing is still in effect. Doing so will result in a negative note on an evaluation and can result in not advancing within the organization for not following procedures. Unless you hear "no ice" or "good", assume the icing play is on. If you want communication, tell your goalie. He can see the other ref quite easily. At the very least, someone on the ice, or on the bench should be telling you what is going on. Don't expect the ref to help you, because helping one team make plays rarely works out well in the end.

I forgot to add: having a thick skin and staying calm in the face of adversity, complaints, disrespect, etc. I'm working on this one.

I expect people to disagree with calls and even complain at times. The hard part is knowing where to draw the line when it comes to abuse. I always tell players "that's enough" and turn away from them. If they follow me and continue with the verbal barrage, then they get the minor.

[ktang 34]

I have to admit, sometimes I have been less than diplomatic in my replies (as a ref). Either by belittling, or over-explaining, or by yelling back. So far this year I haven't crossed the line yet, but it's been tough turning the other cheek. But I've never given the minor or misconduct after I've gone back at the rudeness.

So far so good, 7 games into this winter season, including one women's game (imagine having 30 of your wives on the ice with you, complaining about everything).

But this is my way to give back to the game and the community, so I have to work on my diplomacy and temper. This is my major goal for this year.

I agree about the icing comment - the goalie has the best view, and the front linesman / ref isn't supposed to say anything unless there is a wave-off. If there is no wave-off by the top-of-the-circles or hash marks, then players should assume that there is a potential icing coming up (unless the attacking forward can get to the puck before the goal-line for no-touch icing).

[JR97 2]

With USA Hockey procedures the front ref is not supposed to say or do anything if the icing is still in effect. Doing so will result in a negative note on an evaluation and can result in not advancing within the organization for not following procedures. Unless you hear "no ice" or "good", assume the icing play is on. If you want communication, tell your goalie. He can see the other ref quite easily. At the very least, someone on the ice, or on the bench should be telling you what is going on. Don't expect the ref to help you, because helping one team make plays rarely works out well in the end.

good to know. Does that only apply to icing or does it apply to offsides and delayed penalties as well? I usually look to the closest ref and not necessarily the "front" ref to know what's going on.

[chippa13 1844]

For delayed offsides, the official around the blueline will have the arm up. For icing, I have seen some front refs who will point the arm forward when there is a potential icing call coming up. Probably a throwback to the two line offside days.

[Chadd 916]

good to know. Does that only apply to icing or does it apply to offsides and delayed penalties as well? I usually look to the closest ref and not necessarily the "front" ref to know what's going on.

For the most part, yes. In icing, the rear official puts his hand up to let the front official know that the puck was played behind the center ice line and it is then up o the forward official to make the call when it crosses the line. With an off side violation, one official has the call. If the play is a rush up the ice, then it will generally be the forward official. If play is established in the zone, it will generally be up to the official at the blue line. With penalties, if a ref sees the infraction, he should put his hand up and blow play dead when the offending team touches the puck. If the ref did not see the infraction, he should not put his hand up or blow play dead. If the ref didn't see the play, he should not be guessing what the call was or who it was on. Now, if my partner has his hand up and both teams have touched the puck, I may blow play dead just to find out what the hell is going on, but I do not believe that is in the training program anywhere.

For delayed offsides, the official around the blueline will have the arm up. For icing, I have seen some front refs who will point the arm forward when there is a potential icing call coming up. Probably a throwback to the two line offside days.

Some junior, college and high school leagues still use that signal, especially in a 2 ref, 1 linesman system.

[ktang 34]

I have to admit, sometimes I have been less than diplomatic in my replies (as a ref). Either by belittling, or over-explaining, or by yelling back. So far this year I haven't crossed the line yet, but it's been tough turning the other cheek. But I've never given the minor or misconduct after I've gone back at the rudeness.

So far so good, 7 games into this winter season, including one women's game (imagine having 30 of your wives on the ice with you, complaining about everything).

But this is my way to give back to the game and the community, so I have to work on my diplomacy and temper. This is my major goal for this year.

Well, that streak didn't last long. Starting over.

[OpenIceHit42 2]

What makes a good official? One that's not on a power trip because he's got the striped shirt on.