modifying cage

[JamesCL 2]

http://www.modsquadhockey.com/forums/index.php?/topic/52752-boulder-hockey-shield/#entry794667

Boulder Hockey Shield, It's basically acage built around a visor.

Thanks but that thing Is hideous, concept II looks much better IMO.

[MyBoxersSayJoe 133]

I have a friend who sawed the middle 3 horizontal bars out of his facemask at eye level.

[shoeshine boy 242]

Thanks but that thing Is hideous, concept II looks much better IMO.

those things do look hideous especially if you get them in some of the colors. last night I played against a guy wearing a white one who had a white helmet. the guys on the bench referred to him as The Stormtrooper.

I've heard that they're great visors though.

I have a friend who sawed the middle 3 horizontal bars out of his facemask at eye level.

depending on your league you can be kicked out for this.

[gosinger 122]

depending on your league you can be kicked out for this.

3 teammates of mine have such cages, but they were sold like this (ages ago, but still)...

[shoeshine boy 242]

in youth hockey they'll toss you from the game almost immediately. in adult leagues it really depends on how strict the league and refs want to be.

[MyBoxersSayJoe 133]

It's men's league, they haven't said anything. Once in a while a ref will ask someone to do their chin strap if they don't have a full cage.

[jsykes 35]

Actually I put hang on it as soon as I installed it, the chincup doesn't even touch my chin.

You should bring it in against your chin then and make if fit properly, that might help. As others have said, bringing the cup against your chin gets it more out of your field of vision and bringing the bars closer to your eyes actually allows you to see through them easier.

Try bringing it in closer and then see if that helps.

[Chadd 916]

in youth hockey they'll toss you from the game almost immediately. in adult leagues it really depends on how strict the league and refs want to be.

I've asked for clarification on this several times over the last few years and the association will not give me an answer. Our adult league is registered with USA Hockey and no facial protection is required. However, there is a rule that states equipment can not be modified so as to be dangerous. I really don't care one way or the other, I just want to cover my ass if something goes wrong.

[hunt3rsean 44]

It's men's league, they haven't said anything. Once in a while a ref will ask someone to do their chin strap if they don't have a full cage.

Our mens league is registered with USA Hockey. I've seen a couple modified cages while playing at my rink for the last 4-5 years. As of yet no one has been asked to leave a game because of it yet. But, they do require you to keep your chin strap on if you're not wearing a cage. Which makes sense. Might as well not wear a helmet if you're not going to keep the chin strap on.

I've also seen guys who have the wire cage/visor combo take the visor off but still wear the cage. This also hasn't caused any issues for those players (that I'm aware of) at my local rink.

[MN old and slow 92]

Started wearing a cage at 50. Took about 20 games to adjust now no issue. Switched after seeing a buddy loose some teeth. Really want to keep mine. Watch how well the college and high school players handle the puck even with a cage. The marginal gain of no cage vs cage is not worth the risk. Love the 7500 flat bar cage.

[mhkehoe 1]

The hang you added to the cage is probably nullifying some of the perks of the 9900 (oval bars). You are likely seeing the top of the bars instead of just the back, and it is making the bars look thicker. Also, when the cage is worn properly, the spaces in the bars should line up with you eyes.

[scorer75 9]

I've asked for clarification on this several times over the last few years and the association will not give me an answer. Our adult league is registered with USA Hockey and no facial protection is required. However, there is a rule that states equipment can not be modified so as to be dangerous. I really don't care one way or the other, I just want to cover my ass if something goes wrong.

For youth hockey, USA Hockey rules are followed strictly. Full cage and neck guards for all, mouthguards for PeeWee and higher. However, the State level can change the guidlines. For example, I reffed a game where a NY team played a NJ team. The NY team had to wear neck guards, the NJ team did not, those are the rules in their states and we followed them. Before every game I spend a few minutes during warmups verifying all players have neck guards and mouth pieces as required. I'd rather send a kid to the dressing room before the game than during the game to fix an issue.

Men's league is a different animal. It's really up to each league/rink. Most leagues have a full face protection rule, probably required by their insurance companies, but most will allow half visors. I did a game recently where a player had no facial protection. The League manager said it was ok, so it's no longer my problem. Again, their rules, I only enforce them.

Referees are ultimately responsible for player safety. I have given a minor to a guy the third time I had to ask him to buckle his chin strap with a visor. When he goes down and his helmet comes off before his head hits the ice, that's my problem, not just his. With a cage, as long as the sides are strapped, I don't care about the chin strap as much. I have also asked an adult player in pregame to tape over the tip of the blade as it had chips in it and in my opinion would be dangerous if it struck another player. Player safety is our primary responsibility.

As for modifying equipment, the dangerous part refers to danger to other players, not necessarily the player himself. If a guy cuts a bar out of a cage in a league that only requires visors, that's not a big deal. So long as the equipment can still work as intended by the manufacturer. If a kid showed up with a bar cut out for a youth game, he'd never see the ice if I was reffing.

Hope that helped.

[Chadd 916]

Men's league is a different animal. It's really up to each league/rink. Most leagues have a full face protection rule, probably required by their insurance companies, but most will allow half visors. I did a game recently where a player had no facial protection. The League manager said it was ok, so it's no longer my problem. Again, their rules, I only enforce them.

If the adult league is registered with USAH they can have rules that are more strict than USAH rules, but not ones that are more lenient than USAH rules.

[hunterphfr 12]

After getting cut a couple of times i switched from a half shield to the cage that came with my 9900. It had been a couple of decades since I'd worn a full cage. Just couldn't get used to it. It wasn't even a vision issue as much as almost a claustrophobic type of thing. I dug an old HM40 cat eye cage out of my closet that I used to use when I played box lacrosse. It protects against pucks and sticks(except the butt end) to the face while providing a much better field of vision. Definitely not the same level of protection as a true full cage but much more than a half shield. That style doesn't have a chin cup, solving the claustrophobia thing and I'm pretty happy with it. Get a bit of grief over it from the younger and southern guys that didn't grow up while they were more in vogue.

There are several newer "mens rec league" cage styles available and the odd older one pops up on ebay.

[scorer75 9]

If the adult league is registered with USAH they can have rules that are more strict than USAH rules, but not ones that are more lenient than USAH rules.

True, theoretically.

In reality, leagues can do whatever they want to. I've seen guys fight resulting in a fighting major and a game misconduct, only to suit up 30 minutes later and play for another team. It's really up to the league to enforce the rules. Some rinks are very lax about following through with enforcement. As an example, if a kid fights or gets suspended for any reason but plays during the suspension period, the team he plays for will end up forfeiting every game the kid played in while suspended. No team is willing to risk that. In men's league, some rinks don't even pay attention to these rules and anything goes.

I gave a guy a game for the first man to intervene (or third man in) and the rink manager said he was going to be suspended for a game. I advised him that that penalty does not call for an additional game, but he said he was going to do it to keep guys from jumping in.

In a perfect world Chadd you are 100% correct. In reality, and in my experience, this is what happens.

[Chadd 916]

That stuff is all supplemental discipline, beyond the purview of an on-ice official. If you are working a USAH sanctioned league and they are not observing suspensions, I would want something in writing from your association or the league itself that that it is not your responsibility. USAH will wash their hands and you will be on your own if something happens and the rules are their not being observed.

If this is a non-USAH adult league, then all bets are off. More often than not, those are the leagues where anything goes and I won't work them.

[hunt3rsean 44]

For youth hockey, USA Hockey rules are followed strictly. Full cage and neck guards for all, mouthguards for PeeWee and higher. However, the State level can change the guidlines. For example, I reffed a game where a NY team played a NJ team. The NY team had to wear neck guards, the NJ team did not, those are the rules in their states and we followed them. Before every game I spend a few minutes during warmups verifying all players have neck guards and mouth pieces as required. I'd rather send a kid to the dressing room before the game than during the game to fix an issue.

Men's league is a different animal. It's really up to each league/rink. Most leagues have a full face protection rule, probably required by their insurance companies, but most will allow half visors. I did a game recently where a player had no facial protection. The League manager said it was ok, so it's no longer my problem. Again, their rules, I only enforce them.

Referees are ultimately responsible for player safety. I have given a minor to a guy the third time I had to ask him to buckle his chin strap with a visor. When he goes down and his helmet comes off before his head hits the ice, that's my problem, not just his. With a cage, as long as the sides are strapped, I don't care about the chin strap as much. I have also asked an adult player in pregame to tape over the tip of the blade as it had chips in it and in my opinion would be dangerous if it struck another player. Player safety is our primary responsibility.

As for modifying equipment, the dangerous part refers to danger to other players, not necessarily the player himself. If a guy cuts a bar out of a cage in a league that only requires visors, that's not a big deal. So long as the equipment can still work as intended by the manufacturer. If a kid showed up with a bar cut out for a youth game, he'd never see the ice if I was reffing.

Hope that helped.

The youth hockey rules, overruled by state, is pretty interesting. I didn't realize that individual states could make exceptions/mandates above USA hockey rules. Very cool to know.

Both local rinks that I play at, for adult league, allow half visors and no facial protection at all. So you see everything from cages (new and old), half visors, and nothing. I tried the nothing for awhile. . .decided it wasn't even close to worth it and went back to cage/visor.

The bolded statement explains my league then. That's pretty interesting. Still, out of my whole face. . .my eyes are definitely the #1 priority for having protection.

[scorer75 9]

Here is the nuts and bolts of it: (from the 2011-2013 USA Hockey Rulebook)

Not all protective equipment is mandatory in all age classifications. However, if not mandated by rule, USA Hockey strongly recommends that all players and goalkeepers in all age classifications properly wear an internal mouthpiece, a HECC approved helmet and a HECC approved full facemask for all games and practices.

Players in the Adult classification must wear a hockey helmet (including non-HECC approved) with chin strap properly fastened.

All players, including goalkeepers, in all age classifications below Adults, are required to wear a facemask certified by HECC, plus any chin protection that accompanies the facemask.

(Note) Any helmet or facemask that is altered except as permitted in Rule 304© shall be deemed to be illegal equipment and shall not be allowed to be used in a game. (This shall include helmets from which a part has been cut or removed, facemasks from which the chin-cup has been removed or any other such alterations.

So basically it's up to the local governing bodies to set the rules for any equipment not required, hence the neck guards in NY but not in NJ. Adults are not required by USA Hockey to wear a facemask, it's up to the league, so a bar that is removed from an adult's facemask that is not required to be there in the first place would be more of a local governing body/leage/rink decision.

[Chadd 916]

Here is the nuts and bolts of it: (from the 2011-2013 USA Hockey Rulebook)

Not all protective equipment is mandatory in all age classifications. However, if not mandated by rule, USA Hockey strongly recommends that all players and goalkeepers in all age classifications properly wear an internal mouthpiece, a HECC approved helmet and a HECC approved full facemask for all games and practices.

Players in the Adult classification must wear a hockey helmet (including non-HECC approved) with chin strap properly fastened.

All players, including goalkeepers, in all age classifications below Adults, are required to wear a facemask certified by HECC, plus any chin protection that accompanies the facemask.

(Note) Any helmet or facemask that is altered except as permitted in Rule 304© shall be deemed to be illegal equipment and shall not be allowed to be used in a game. (This shall include helmets from which a part has been cut or removed, facemasks from which the chin-cup has been removed or any other such alterations.

So basically it's up to the local governing bodies to set the rules for any equipment not required, hence the neck guards in NY but not in NJ. Adults are not required by USA Hockey to wear a facemask, it's up to the league, so a bar that is removed from an adult's facemask that is not required to be there in the first place would be more of a local governing body/leage/rink decision.

If you look at 304 c, It states that everyone other than adults must wear a HECC approved helmet with ear flap and chin strap buckled. Adults must wear a hockey helmet with the chin strap buckled. It does not explicitly allow other modifications. If you look in the case book, situation 16 for rule 304 implies that it is not permissible to remove bars but refers mostly to adding bars to the mask.

[scorer75 9]

If you look at 304 c, It states that everyone other than adults must wear a HECC approved helmet with ear flap and chin strap buckled. Adults must wear a hockey helmet with the chin strap buckled. It does not explicitly allow other modifications. If you look in the case book, situation 16 for rule 304 implies that it is not permissible to remove bars but refers mostly to adding bars to the mask.

You are correct. Except how do you enforce not allowing a facemask that has bars removed when the facemask itself is optional, so long as it doesn't endanger the player or other players. A youth player would not be allowed to play with bars removed because it would be a modification of a required piece of equipment. An adult player who is not required to have the facemask, I would allow to play so long as the rink or league manager was ok with it.

[Chadd 916]

You are correct. Except how do you enforce not allowing a facemask that has bars removed when the facemask itself is optional, so long as it doesn't endanger the player or other players. A youth player would not be allowed to play with bars removed because it would be a modification of a required piece of equipment. An adult player who is not required to have the facemask, I would allow to play so long as the rink or league manager was ok with it.

Like I said in the post two days ago that you quoted, all I want is written confirmation from the league or the association to cover my ass.

[scorer75 9]

Like I said in the post two days ago that you quoted, all I want is written confirmation from the league or the association to cover my ass.

That's hysterical, and never going to happen. Hell, I'm happy if my game asignment times are correct...

If it bothers you and in your judgement you don't feel like it's safe, then don't let the player do it. The rulebook backs you on the cutaway bars. As the referee you are responsible for the players safety and are the ultimate authority regarding what happens on the ice when you are working a game.

[Chadd 916]

That's hysterical, and never going to happen. Hell, I'm happy if my game asignment times are correct...

Sounds like your organization is a lot less efficient than ours. I will take up your challenge and make it happen before the spring season starts.

[scorer75 9]

Most of the rinks I work at are fairly well organized, a few are horrendous. I'm a total whore and will work any game, any time, at any rink :)

I can't imagine them putting something in writing that is presumably in contradiction to their insurance policy, but best of luck to you in getting that done. Let me know how that works out for you, if you get it i'll buy you a beer :)

[wrangler 157]

The rule seems to clearly outlaw modified/altered (except in accordance with Rule 304) equipment, and does not restrict this proscription to required equipment. It may not make the most sense that a player may play with no facial protection, but not with a modified cage, but one has to apply the rule as written, absent some other direction, such as a USA Hockey interpretation in writing. I have to agree with Chadd on this one.