Is So-And-So A Hall Of Famer? The Water Cooler Thread

[pizzakid13 5]

Yes

No

Yes-easily

Yes-easily

[Jason Harris 31]

I would have said No to LeClair, but I forgot he had that great stretch of 51, 50, 51, 43 and 40 goals, so I'd put him Maybe. The other three are Yes.

How about Vincent Lecavalier or Martin St. Louis? I never thought of either as being a Hall of Famers, but Jack Edwards referred to both of them as future HOFers over the weekend. Lecavalier (32) has had thirteen straight years of 20+ goals and is fifty points from breaking the Top 100, while St. Louis (37) is 40 points from cracking the century mark. Is that HOF or Hall of Very Good? Lecavalier is young enough to pile enough points, but St. Louis didn't break into the NHL until he was about 26, which may prove to be too late.

Or Jumbo Joe? 59th in all-time scoring and a five year stretch with the most assists in the NHL. I say Yes.

[pizzakid13 5]

Nope on all those guys. No way leclair gets in ahead of lindros who is bubble.

HOF needs to the best of the best. Joe falls apart at crunch time.

[Jason Harris 31]

I wouldn't say Joe falls apart at crunch time, but he hasn't played as well as the regular season: 1.01 PPG versus 0.81 PPG if the one series where it was known he had cracked ribs is removed. To be fair, though, how does anyone's playoff totals compare to their regular seasons? I would imagine most players have lesser stats since scoring goes down.

He also scored 89, 70 and 77 points in his first three seasons in his thirties, so I think it's fair to think he'll pick up another 200 points, which would put him toward the top 30.

EDIT: Just checked the PPG for the first twenty-five scorers. Everybody's PPG went down in the playoffs except Messier's, Gilmour's and Kurri's.

[pizzakid13 5]

Joe is a very good player but he is Too soft for the PO and has no rings yet. That could change obviously but as of now, no friggin way.

[chippa13 1844]

Thorton's career numbers definitely put his chances above "no friggin' way". He's got some hardware and been to the Conference finals two or three times. Winning a Cup would cement him in.

[Chadd 916]

Thorton's career numbers definitely put his chances above "no friggin' way". He's got some hardware and been to the Conference finals two or three times. Winning a Cup would cement him in.

Not winning a cup despite being on a team with that much talent is a huge knock on him. I hope he gets one at some point, just not this year.

[steelnation248 101]

Maybe this is a bit of a homer and dark horse idea, but what about Datsyuk? 2x cup winner, the Selkies and Lady Bing's. I know he doesn't put up crazy numbers but he's almost a point per game player and I think he's playing some of his best hockey nowadays. With his style and work ethic, I think he could very well play until he's 40. Also, a lot of his game doesn't appear on the score sheets either.

I guess I'd throw him out there with some of the other players being mentioned like Thorton and St. Louis.

[pizzakid13 5]

HOF discussions are very subjective obviously. i think that all the halls have been watered down just like the game itself. to me, only the absolute best of their era should get in. stats are important but so are rings, awards etc. to me, joe thornton isnt even close right now. off the top of my head, my list from the last 15 years or so would be:

brodeur

roy

hasek

modano

sakic

hull

yzerman

sellanne

jagr

lidstrom

pronger

neidermeyer

bourque

might have missed a couple

[chippa13 1844]

Really sticking your neck out with that list.

As for Datsyuk, I think he gets in. His numbers aren't eye-popping and might not make him a first ballot Hall of Famer but when a guy is constantly in the conversation of best player in the league for years, well, then I think there is no denying his entry.

[Chadd 916]

HOF discussions are very subjective obviously. i think that all the halls have been watered down just like the game itself. to me, only the absolute best of their era should get in. stats are important but so are rings, awards etc. to me, joe thornton isnt even close right now. off the top of my head, my list from the last 15 years or so would be:

brodeur

roy

hasek

modano

sakic

hull

yzerman

sellanne

jagr

lidstrom

pronger

neidermeyer

bourque

might have missed a couple

Pronger has one cup, one Norris and one Hart

Thornton has one Hart, one Ross and no cup

It doesn't seem like that much of a difference to me.

[MarsB 33]

Pierre Turgeon?

[chippa13 1844]

I think he'll need a ticket to get into the Hall. His ppg numbers look good until you factor in that he got to enjoy the live puck era of the late 80's/early 90's where guys were putting up obscene numbers. He was a Jason Allison kind of player, you never really noticed him during the game but then you look on the scoresheet and he'd have a couple of points.

[RadioGaGa 162]

What about Saku Koivu?

1000+ games.

He'll have over 800 points when he's done. His numbers would have been better if not for early knee injuries and losing a season to Cancer treatments.

Longevity.

Won internationally.

Thoughts?

[TeamHonda401 54]

I think he'll get in when it's all said and done. The things he overcame in his career add a lot to his HOF potential. It might take him a couple tries, but if it's a weak class that particular year he should sneek in there.

[Chadd 916]

What about Saku Koivu?

1000+ games.

He'll have over 800 points when he's done. His numbers would have been better if not for early knee injuries and losing a season to Cancer treatments.

Longevity.

Won internationally.

Thoughts?

Three 20 goal seasons, never played to a point per game pace and no Selke's to make up for the lack of offense. I think there are going to be enough other guys with better numbers waiting to get in, that he likely misses out.

[pizzakid13 5]

Pronger has one cup, one Norris and one Hart

Thornton has one Hart, one Ross and no cup

It doesn't seem like that much of a difference to me.

I feel that pronger has the intangibles like being the most dominant defenseman of his era plus he led two other teams to the finals and joe has not.

Really sticking your neck out with that list.

That's what I mean I guess. That's why I think the HOF should be for the no-brainers. Anything less means you are lowering the bar to less than great. Just my opinion.

[wrangler 157]

It doesn't matter where you set the bar, there will always be guys close enough to it that it will take some thinking.

[Chadd 916]

I feel that pronger has the intangibles like being the most dominant defenseman of his era plus he led two other teams to the finals and joe has not.

That's what I mean I guess. That's why I think the HOF should be for the no-brainers. Anything less means you are lowering the bar to less than great. Just my opinion.

How can you be the most dominant defenseman of your era and only win one Norris? He may have had a couple years when you could argue that was the case, but Bourque, Lidstrom and Chara all played at least some of their careers during that same era.

[chippa13 1844]

Pronger and his 1 Norris dominated an era but Thornton has more assists than anyone over something like the last 8-10 years and he doesn't make the list? If Adam Oates is in then Thornton should get in.

[pizzakid13 5]

by dominant i mean a shutdown, all emcompassing defenseman. of course lidstrom and bourque are in but i think pronger was the total package.

joe is great and has led the league 3 times in assists. so, if he can get a cup, then he is in. that is the measuring stick for so many guys. you really have to blow people away with stats to get in without a ring like dan marino.

oates is 6th all time in assists and 17th in points. recchi is ahead in points but played 300 more games. he has a few rings too. i say he's in.

shanahan is another tough one. high up in points, difference maker in games, a few rings too. i say he's in.

[Speedz98 15]

Feel like players should have a quality that separates them from their peers.For the most part every one at the NHL level can shoot, skate, and pass. Lot's of guys are close to each other in terms of points and games played, but who ever get's into the hall needs to have an aspect about their game that makes you reflect and go "Wow, not many people can play the way he did."

[Jason Harris 31]

I'm not a fan of the "he never won the big one" argument. Maybe in basketball, where the player is one of five and could play 90% of the game in the playoffs, but when they're just one of twenty players in a sport where the goalie has to be en fuego for the team to win, it seems to be an unfair "requirement." Maybe it's a fair comparison when two players have similar stats, but I've always felt it's harsh to hold them to that standard.

Further, how many Stanley Cups are won because of lucky bounces or breaks? Just thinking of 2011, Chara blocks a shot with the tip of his knee, behind Thomas, and saves the series for the B's. Thomas stops a shot with his paddle at the three-inch line and saves a series. I forget exactly how it happened, but didn't Vancouver get to the Finals by beating San Jose in OT when the puck looked like it had gone out of play, but bounced to Bieksa(?) who shot while everyone else was looking around?

[XveritasX 13]

Just to keep the debate going:

Chris Pronger

John Leclair

Jaromir Jagr

Dominik Hasek

Yes

Possibly, not 1st ballot if so

Definite yes

Definite yes

[wrangler 157]

If someone else posted it, I missed it:

Hossa