The softest skates for the best skaters ?

[Jordan 13]

I speak from experience,, these Ski boots called bauer and CCM are a joke,,, there is a reason why they make these skates so stiff and it has nothing to do with them being a good skate it has to do with marketing and sales.

Easy there...

They make stiff skates, because lateral stability is ever more desirable as players get bigger, faster and stronger. This trend is also the case in figure skates and in speed skates.

Are there trade-offs? Of course there are, but there are some excellent skaters in hockey, speed skating and in figure skating that seem to do just fine in stiff skates thank you very much.

Many people tie their skates up lower, creating more ankle flexibility, while benefiting from the lateral stability of a stiff skate.

Other skates are cut lower, but are very stiff below the ankle. This is the case with the Mako, and is the case with every speed skate on the planet.

Saying that everything is designed just for marketing is a wildly incorrect claim. Bauer spends a ton of money on R&D, not just on marketing. Look at speed skating. There is a market the size of pin prick. If soft skates were faster than the stiff skates that is what would be made.

If a softer figure skate, helped you land ever bigger jumps, that's what would sell. Reidell makes a high end figure skate that is quite soft in ankle flex. Sells for about $1,500....the few high end skaters using it are getting a life span of about four months out them.

Like I said earlier...tradeoffs

[K Snizz 0]

I have a pair of 9.0D Mako Skates that I'm trying to get rid of. If you're interested.

[Neo5370 132]

Easy there...

They make stiff skates, because lateral stability is ever more desirable as players get bigger, faster and stronger. This trend is also the case in figure skates and in speed skates.

Are there trade-offs? Of course there are, but there are some excellent skaters in hockey, speed skating and in figure skating that seem to do just fine in stiff skates thank you very much.

Many people tie their skates up lower, creating more ankle flexibility, while benefiting from the lateral stability of a stiff skate.

Other skates are cut lower, but are very stiff below the ankle. This is the case with the Mako, and is the case with every speed skate on the planet.

Saying that everything is designed just for marketing is a wildly incorrect claim. Bauer spends a ton of money on R&D, not just on marketing. Look at speed skating. There is a market the size of pin prick. If soft skates were faster than the stiff skates that is what would be made.

If a softer figure skate, helped you land ever bigger jumps, that's what would sell. Reidell makes a high end figure skate that is quite soft in ankle flex. Sells for about $1,500....the few high end skaters using it are getting a life span of about four months out them.

Like I said earlier...tradeoffs

True, but the average beer leaguer is not one of those people that would benefit from skating in top of the line-stiff skates. The people you're talking about are pros and elite amateurs which there are probably less of than recreational players. Recreational players of average size and strength would experience a huge boost in their skating if they took the time to get used to a softer boot, they would be forced to learn the ever so important toe flick, feeling their edges for better edge control, and probably a more efficient stride by ACTUALLY being able to achieve proper ankle/knee bend.

I love and hate whenever this topic comes up b/c I fervently believe the modern trend of super stiff skates makes it harder for people to learn proper power-skating mechanics and many people believe otherwise. I'll never claim I am absolutely right, but I'll never admit that I'm absolutely wrong either.

[Cavs019 710]

Thats why there is depth behind the line and companies release lower end iterations below the $799+ top end model. The problem is not "stiff skates," but the "average beer leaguer" thinking they are Gretzky, or that more expensive = superior product = will magically help them learn how to skate. Its the customers fault, not the manufacturer.

Mechanically, a stiff skate doesn't inhibit any of the skating factors you mentioned above. I am 5'9 170 and can get full extention/toe snap in my NXGs by going an eyelet down. Its boot height, not skate stiffness that inhibits knee bend. Flexlite 4.0 pros are about as stiff as my Nike running shoes, but laced all the way up provide no forward flex whatsoever.

Going further, my pair of 735s, which based on your description should enable me to be more efficient, affords me no greater range of motion compared to my NXGs and feel sloppy and unresponsive due to the relative absence of lateral stiffness.

[MyBoxersSayJoe 134]

Comparing my 703's to my APX's, I find the stiffer boot really allows me to lean into and achieve very sharp turns. Much snappier starts and stops. I was in 703's for 13 years, so I had plenty of time to work on and build up ankle strength. Both have a pretty decent forward cut. I'd actually wrap the laces around my ankles once with the Grafs. I just lace the APX's normally.

[aarias19 0]

Just some random musings.

I just picked up a pair of old 952 Tacks a month or so ago. My last skates have been the CCM CL, CCM U+ RL, and the Easton SE16. I never realized the amount of 'cheating' a stiff boot allows you to do. I think I had to get to a certain level of skating (I am by no stretch of the imagination elite) to be able to understand that my muscles were cheating by being in stiff boots.

So I wonder... if I'd learned to skate in softer boots, then moved up to the stiffer boots could I reap all the advantages the stiff boots offer? My current experiment is to skate in the Tacks and see what new 'plateau' I get to in my skating, then go back to my CLs that have been shelved for the time being. Could take years.

I have been in and out of these boards since 2004 and have watched the evolution of these skate boots. Read the reviews and all the info on the newest skates each year. I was never a good skater to start with, and then I got in stiff boots to learn. Now I'm having to kind of re-learn everything. But skating is too fun to not try to learn properly!

[customskateworks 39]

If a skate fits your foot properly, range of motion should not be an issue. Support does not come from you ankles. Support comes from proper subtalar joint (joint directly above your heel) fit. When you are baking skates, a great trick is to squeeze in the heel counter (or area where it would be) after it has just come out of the oven and is soft. As the foot enters the soft boot the heel counter pushes out the counter to where it needs to be. You can always make a boot larger, its much more difficult to make it smaller.

Stiff material such as the Propex (Curv trade name) composite found in the APX2, NXG, and Graf G75, is a good thermoplastic and forms and punches quite well. The advantage of the stiffer material is the "pop" you get from each stride, or a return of a percentage of energy. The disadvantage of the stiffer material is the need to engineer flex points into it. A boot must, and will, flex during stride. However not everyone's foot is the same and therefore flexes in different places. Forcing a foot that is too deep into an APX2 will cause the boot to crease and breakdown prematurely. A boot that is the proper depth for your instep means it will flex where designed, give you a nice even lacing pattern, and eliminate the need for skipping eyelets.

I would not call the Mako soft. Softer than NXGs or similarly built boot, yes, but not soft. The stiffness of the Mako is derived from the monocoque outsole. If you've mounted an inline chassis or another brand's holder on a Mako, you will notice the torsional stiffness.

I often tell people that skates are like Formula 1 cars. They are built around a driver who is capable of pushing the car to it's performance limit. If they cannot, then the technology is wasted.

[flip12 722]

It would have been interesting for this discussion if Graf's G9035 were to come out this year as originally reported it would...guess we'll just have to keep waiting on that one.

I wish I could get a 703-last G75 / G9035...but what stiffness, I don't know. Man that company makes deciding hard: the existentialist [mostly->] skate company.

[DigiV 6]

I would not call the Mako soft. Softer than NXGs or similarly built boot, yes, but not soft. The stiffness of the Mako is derived from the monocoque outsole. If you've mounted an inline chassis or another brand's holder on a Mako, you will notice the torsional stiffness.

hmm... should i expect a huge change in feel if i mount the lightspeed edge holder on my mako? i just did this but haven't skated on them yet.

[chippa13 1844]

I think he meant you'll notice the stiffness during the actual mounting process.

[customskateworks 39]

From my experience the Edge holder is slightly stiffer, but slightly shorter than the CXN. LS3 or Step runners will make up the difference if you want to get down lower on your edges.

I think he meant you'll notice the stiffness during the actual mounting process.

Yes. If you try to twist the boot without a holder on it, you'll realize it's stiffness.

[DigiV 6]

From my experience the Edge holder is slightly stiffer, but slightly shorter than the CXN. LS3 or Step runners will make up the difference if you want to get down lower on your edges.

Yes. If you try to twist the boot without a holder on it, you'll realize it's stiffness.

Ah, gotcha.

Yes i did go with the LS3 for that reason. Pics will be posted later today and a first skate done monday.

[icewalker_bg 126]

According to what you discribe as to what you are looking for the Graf G7 or 707 are EXACTLY what you want.

I speak from experience,, these Ski boots called bauer and CCM are a joke,,, there is a reason why they make these skates so stiff and it has nothing to do with them being a good skate it has to do with marketing and sales.

No. Bauer and CCM are not a joke. I am sure there are smooth skaters on MHS who can skate all day long on soft boots, but there are lots of benefits from a stiff skate as mentioned already, for me specifically i have weak ankles and pronate, stiff skates help a lot to reduce pronation and knee pain. So your experience is irrelevant.