Skate Radius- 10 ft versus 11ft

[endomaniac 2]

I'll try to make a long story short......... had stock radius (9ft) countoured to 11ft at my local LHS. I felt too much blade and loss of agility (clumsy on transitions especially when tired) and wanted to try a 10 ft instead. My local LHS did not to carry a 10ft radius template........so....... I went to another LHS that was further away that had the 10ft radius template/bar.

My experience was that there is a world of difference between the two and there really shouldn't be THAT big a difference even if I am technically a good skater. It just didn't make sense that i needed to split hairs and get a 10.5 radius ???

Apparently ( when i called to discus with a Blademaster rep ), what may have happened is that the two LHS's may be using a different generation of contouring systems (both from Blademaster) but the the radius produced may not be equivalent (ie. an 11ft on the older generation Mark whatever blah blah blah may actually be a 12 on the new Blademaster CRM-6??).

So theoretically, the difference between my two sets of steel could be up to 2 ft which would be quite significant.

Anyone else have this experience? hoping one of the professional sharpeners can chime in here.

[Donald Stearns 1]

Send them to noicing sports, best place there is, they will fix them for you.

[endomaniac 2]

From my undertanding with speaking to Blademaster on the phone, there was no technical "fault" with contouring from either LHS......just that older and newer contouring systems are not scaled the same. So.....basically a 10 foot radius could be off by 1 ft depending which generation of contouring system you are using. It just baffles me that there should be any difference at all (math is math isn't it?)

[bdh13 1]

How long did you take to skate on each radius? It takes a bit of time to adjust to anything. I'd give it awhile (if you haven't).

[endomaniac 2]

well, I've been on 11ft for 6 months (I'm 5'9 and 190lbs) and I've recently contoured another set of steel (to the 10 ft) for only a couple of weeks (5 hrs of ice time). The sharpening is identical 95/75 fbv on both sets of steel done on my home X-02 sharpener (been using it for 5 years now).

One thing i especially notice is that on the 10ft steel, I will crunch through the ice on sharp turns rather than glide on top of it and as a result I will lose speed. I can go back and feel the groove in the ice with my fingers! That did not happen with the 11ft steel.

[endomaniac 2]

OK update here.

I just discovered that my original steel (11ft) was not profiled using Blademaster.

Not sure what this means other than the fact that i will get an inconsistent radius from one LHS to another when requesting the same specified radius.

[jimmy 194]

From my undertanding with speaking to Blademaster on the phone, there was no technical "fault" with contouring from either LHS......just that older and newer contouring systems are not scaled the same. So.....basically a 10 foot radius could be off by 1 ft depending which generation of contouring system you are using. It just baffles me that there should be any difference at all (math is math isn't it?)

Hogwash, they are making excuses for a poor job. Radius bars do not change, a 10' is a 10'. Math is math, you are correct. I still have the radius bar from my 1985 Dupliskate DSS-E1 machine. That 10' is same as 10' on my new machines. Theoretically, having radius done at different shops is a crapshoot. Some will say they have 10' templates when you ask, and just give you a 11' thinking you won't notice.

[endomaniac 2]

Hogwash, they are making excuses for a poor job. Radius bars do not change, a 10' is a 10'. Math is math, you are correct. I still have the radius bar from my 1985 Dupliskate DSS-E1 machine. That 10' is same as 10' on my new machines. Theoretically, having radius done at different shops is a crapshoot. Some will say they have 10' templates when you ask, and just give you a 11' thinking you won't notice.

Thanks for your response. Very frustrating speaking to the LHS where they describe the contouring process as art more than science! Please see PM.

[customskateworks 39]

10' is 10'. But it depends who is profiling them and how they measure out the working profile. If one shop's measurement is different and they make more or less passes than another shop, it may still be a 10' profile, it just covers a different amount of blade. While some aspects are difficult to measure and perform exactly, It is purely science. Anyone who treats it as an art can't tell you what they are doing or why they are doing it.

[arcsinice 6]

Not knowing where Endo lives, but he should sort out a highly reputable, competent shop who use templates and ONLY templates for starters. If such a shop means having to send the runners in the mail/fedex/ups, so be it. That's easy. It's a good idea to have at least two sets of runners so if one set are in a local shop or far away, one is not without a set of blades.

As one poster thankfully remarked, radiusing is effectively a (near pure) science........... not an "art". True, the process must be carried out by someone who really knows via experience and that is where experience and "art" do come into play, but a given radius is a given radius across-the-board if via accurate template. Of equal value is pitch point and that is beyond important to say the least and again can only be accomplished via register. You'll excuse my prejudice of decades of relying upon the Blademaster Custom Radius system........... I miss their original holder BTW. It was a far simpler system to that of what they have today which includes combo radius and the like which I am not sold on.

Notwithstanding radius (length) - which needs to be matched........, pitch (again matched) is critical and many would skate better if their pitch point alone were corrected for better stance - balance. In equal breath less hollow. So many are on way too deep a hollow, but I digress....................

Some claim to be able to radius via freehand. That's a real knee slapper. Avoid those gomers like the plague.

[endomaniac 2]

Just an update here. I went back to the original LHS who did the 11ft and asked to try the 9 ft again. Again, they use templates but not the Blademaster apparently. I'm still sold on the fact that the 10ft would be just right for me but was advised it was just "in my head" and the difference in 1 ft of radius is not noticeable......... hence, they only stock 9, 11 and 13 foot templates.

I also asked this LHS to use the radius guage to measure my other set of steel which which I asked to be radiused to 10ft at the other store........ they said it measured 9ft which feels about right, as it feels similar to their 9ft.

So....... even though I live in the centre of the hockey universe (Toronto), I may be setting out my steel by mail to try out a "real" 10 ft radius

Bottom line....... I can play with both 9 and 11 ft, but to me the difference is night and day.

In other peoples experience, is 1 ft radius noticeable? Numerically, what is the difference in blade/ice contact between a 9, 10 and 11 ??

[chippa13 1844]

I don't know what the difference in blade/ice contact is but I do know that a 1 foot difference in radius is definitely noticeable.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Just an update here. I went back to the original LHS who did the 11ft and asked to try the 9 ft again. Again, they use templates but not the Blademaster apparently. I'm still sold on the fact that the 10ft would be just right for me but was advised it was just "in my head" and the difference in 1 ft of radius is not noticeable......... hence, they only stock 9, 11 and 13 foot templates.

I also asked this LHS to use the radius guage to measure my other set of steel which which I asked to be radiused to 10ft at the other store........ they said it measured 9ft which feels about right, as it feels similar to their 9ft.

So....... even though I live in the centre of the hockey universe (Toronto), I may be setting out my steel by mail to try out a "real" 10 ft radius

Bottom line....... I can play with both 9 and 11 ft, but to me the difference is night and day.

In other peoples experience, is 1 ft radius noticeable? Numerically, what is the difference in blade/ice contact between a 9, 10 and 11 ??

If your in the GTA give me a ring. I can show you both sets show you how you can measure them with my bars and you can judge for yourself were you think your at.

And yes i very much believe you could feel the difference!

[hunterphfr 12]

If your in the GTA give me a ring. I can show you both sets show you how you can measure them with my bars and you can judge for yourself were you think your at.

And yes i very much believe you could feel the difference!

I so hate living in Florida sometimes, it's virtually impossible to find a decent and consistent sharpening in this whole state much less a radius.

[Amiroo39 121]

What radius is Jagr skating with? There's barely any steel on these.

[jimmy 194]

What radius is Jagr skating with? There's barely any steel on these.

That's just crazy. But the beautiful thing about sharpening and radius is, that a lot of it is personal preference. Who knows, he might have 3 sets just like those that he rotates.

[customskateworks 39]

He's old, he needs to save all the weight he can.

[nyntwun 2]

Love all the great info on here and I have a question im sure you guys can help me answer. I've been playing Roller for twenty years with occasional ice thrown in. Now my daughter is starting to play ice and I'm skating more often. My problem is that skating isn't translating from roller to ice. I don't have the same feel. It could be just in my head, but I'm thinking its the sharpening. I go with 5/8ths which gives me the bite I'm looking for but I feel like I may have too much blade on the ice, kind of feel like I have skis on, if that makes sense. I'm guessing this is what this thread is about so can anyone recommend a proper profile that may mimick my Hi-lo 76-80 feel I have with my inlines? Ice and roller are exactly the same size 10 bauer vapor x40 ice, 10 nike flexlite 10 roller. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[customskateworks 39]

The ice stride is different from the inline stride, in my experience. The "ski" feeling you describe is most likely the feeling of not being able to get over the toe of your skate as easily as you would an inline skate. All my inline skates are 76-80 and on ice I skate on a 90/50 FBV with a 9ft profile. When I switch from ice to inline I just have to remind myself of which one I'm playing. I also find that since my stride is slightly different, I work different muscles and tire faster if I haven't played one or the other for awhile.

[nyntwun 2]

The ice stride is different from the inline stride, in my experience. The "ski" feeling you describe is most likely the feeling of not being able to get over the toe of your skate as easily as you would an inline skate. All my inline skates are 76-80 and on ice I skate on a 90/50 FBV with a 9ft profile. When I switch from ice to inline I just have to remind myself of which one I'm playing. I also find that since my stride is slightly different, I work different muscles and tire faster if I haven't played one or the other for awhile.

Thanks for the info.

[flip12 715]

Love all the great info on here and I have a question im sure you guys can help me answer. I've been playing Roller for twenty years with occasional ice thrown in. Now my daughter is starting to play ice and I'm skating more often. My problem is that skating isn't translating from roller to ice. I don't have the same feel. It could be just in my head, but I'm thinking its the sharpening. I go with 5/8ths which gives me the bite I'm looking for but I feel like I may have too much blade on the ice, kind of feel like I have skis on, if that makes sense. I'm guessing this is what this thread is about so can anyone recommend a proper profile that may mimick my Hi-lo 76-80 feel I have with my inlines? Ice and roller are exactly the same size 10 bauer vapor x40 ice, 10 nike flexlite 10 roller. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I've been wondering about this for a bit as well. I was a solid inline skater before switching to ice and then got my technique nailed down by power skating camps. But when I finally switched from Bauer to Graf, I think I also switched from a 9' to 11' radius, since I think those are/were stock for those two in the relevant period. Now, when I finally got the Graf boot dialed in, the 11' radius (if that's what it was, and not something less which I believe can happen over time with many sharpenings?) felt perfect, and that with a really low hollow, about 1". After that, I felt fine skating on ice or roller, it didn't really make a difference. But like customskateworks pointed out, the stride factor: I think the dialed in Graf boot was me actually getting it to flex with my knee going over toe, because I could feel it when this didn't happen with different laces, or with completely stiff, off-season boots, when it felt like I couldn't get over my skate and instead my knee would turn in underneath me. When the boot did feel good, it just felt like I was running on ice, and I could really sense my edge everywhere. For me, I think the longer hollow skated closer to my feeling on a roller setup--although that was a straight 4x72mm chasis--and I know a near absolute minimum about sharpening/profiling, so I'm more in the researching stage than the comfortable one on the topic.

[Theo 1]

I imagine it would be close to impossible, but could anyone guess what foot radius Jagr has in that picture?

I believe I've read before that Bure was quite the opposite and he had a great deal of blade touching the ice to give him maximum power per stride.

If buying new skates, would a typical shop change the radius as part of you giving them the business?

[jimmy 194]

I imagine it would be close to impossible, but could anyone guess what foot radius Jagr has in that picture?

I believe I've read before that Bure was quite the opposite and he had a great deal of blade touching the ice to give him maximum power per stride.

If buying new skates, would a typical shop change the radius as part of you giving them the business?

Not close to impossible, actually impossible. Now, we could say it's a short radius or a longer one but honestly, you really can't distuinguish with the eyes the difference between a 8' or a 13' with the eyeball. Also, too many people confuse the bananna shape of the toe/heel radius with the working radius.

[endomaniac 2]

Not close to impossible, actually impossible. Now, we could say it's a short radius or a longer one but honestly, you really can't distuinguish with the eyes the difference between a 8' or a 13' with the eyeball. Also, too many people confuse the bananna shape of the toe/heel radius with the working radius.

This was my finding exactly. Not only that, I've paper traced the supposed 10ft and 11ft steels, tried to eyeball the amount of blade contact on a granite surface, used a flash light etc etc (lol yeah, I'm that anal)..... NO difference. On ice experience...... BIG difference.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

still kinda baffled why he would be using a blade in that shape. it isnt rocket science to know that is not an optimal blade height with blade so worn down toe and heel wise. Every pic I can find they are like that, Most are easier to tell he has a ton of blade on the ice with toe and heel rounded right off. But you can see in most on a hard push off the boot is hitting the ice.