Olympic/International Ice/game > NHL ice/game

[DigiV 6]

I've had this argument every time the Olympics come around when we get to see top level players playing on bigger ice: Bigger ice facilitates a better game. The game is greatly improved in almost every aspect once the ice size increases over the NHL size. It lets the guys that can actually skate decent shine, fly up and down the ice as a team. Not this dump and chase crap.

Guys in the NHL are getting just too big and too fast for that size ice anyway. Everything results in getting smooshed on the boards, board battles, dump and chases, it's obnoxious. It's also crazy to see the guys that shine and the guys that look like crap on bigger ice.

Look at Crosby, he looks like shit on this olympic ice. Watching team Canada constantly flicking the puck down the boards is hilarious.. boring too. The European game is more exciting from a skill, and finesse perspective. American critics have been complaining about the NHL ice for years now, ever since 1998 really and i have to agree with them. The NHL will never achieve the mass popularity in this country when every game is this cluster f/ck of guys scrapping a long the boards. Canadian purists can complain all they want, it's just reality, bigger ice makes the game better, and nicer to watch.

[pondchief 2]

Disagree. Have you watched these Olympics? Bigger ice brings the trap. More ground to make up so teams sit back and wait for mistakes. Atleast in the NHL game its a dump and chase and a 2-1 victory comes with every inch of ice being fought for. European style with bigger rinks brings a dump and wait. Look at Russia playing a 1 - 4 trap with all that firepower, thats exactly what bigger ice would bring to the NHL. My opinion.

[Neo5370 132]

I think eventually, we're (I am) going to have to accept the fact that the game has evolved to the point where run and gun doesn't win games Stanley cups/gold medals and fewer teams will play that way regardless of venue. As a recreational player I've come to realize believe the game I love to play is nothing like the pro game.

[chippa13 1844]

People who have watched both the European and North American game at length will tell you that the European game is slower, lower scoring and less exciting.

[chrisehyoung 14]

I think eventually, we're (I am) going to have to accept the fact that the game has evolved to the point where run and gun doesn't win games Stanley cups/gold medals and fewer teams will play that way regardless of venue. As a recreational player I've come to realize believe the game I love to play is nothing like the pro game.

I think the Blackhawks last 2 Stanley Cup wins may say otherwise. They are pretty much a run and gun team and that seems to work pretty well for them.

I find on the big ice there is more of a patient outside game. It's more of a tight box in the defensive zone and trap in the neutral zone game. Too much sit back and wait for the other team to make a mistake. I won't say it's better or worse, but it is very different.

[DigiV 6]

People who have watched both the European and North American game at length will tell you that the European game is slower, lower scoring and less exciting.

Let's compare apples to apples here. There's no questioning the fact that the nhl has the faster more skilled players so obviously that's going to be the case comparing it like that.

Also, why are you guys talking as if the trap isn't used in the nhl? The difference here is the fact that guys have room to actually PIVOT, they have room for extensive cycling and tic tax toe. The nhl game is nothing but dumps and chases, it's horrific . Wait until we go back to the nhl the difference will be clear as day.

I also wanna bring up the hilarity of canadian sports writers that write off the KHL saying it's top scorer is Rudalov. They claim he sucked in the nhl.... Yah cuz when he got signed he was already fielding offers for 9+ million a year to play back home... Guy wanted to get the f/ck out. He's a beast. A goddamn beast.

The ice in the nhl needs to get bigger cuz if the KHL starts getting better that league will take over

[chippa13 1844]

Radulov came back to finish his deal with the Predators thinking he could play his way into a huge NHL deal and was a tremendous flop. But let's ignore that part.

[deathb4dismount 11]

The ice in the nhl needs to get bigger cuz if the KHL starts getting better that league will take over

hahaha

[grnmtnvt 18]

Average goal per game is hardly any different between the NHL and the Olympic tournament. So, there's no more offense really being generated on the goals front, plus, at least in the preliminary rounds you have far greater disparity between the teams than you see in the NHL so more goal should be scored.

Yes, there is more ice on the wings but with a shorter offensive zone (two feet at each line), if you drew a box where the typical scoring area is, there really is less effective ice, not more. So teams spend more time on the outside and teams can still collapse and cover an even smaller scouring area between faceoff dots.

Who are these American critics that are complaining about the NHL ice? Please, enlighten us all. The two years the US played on Oympic ice, they didn't medal. The two years they played on NHL ice, they played in the final- small sample size, but I doubt the critics were complaining that the ice was the problem.

[DigiV 6]

Radulov came back to finish his deal with the Predators thinking he could play his way into a huge NHL deal and was a tremendous flop. But let's ignore that part.

You don't think this guy could play in the nhl? You're out of your mind.

The nhl ice is a clutter f/ck. you have 5 increasingly faster and stronger guys skating around with 4 goddamn refs. There's no room. Yes the game seems quicker because you only have a few steps before someone is on you....

Every time a big ice player comes into the nhl (think ovi) they are flying their first few years but then what happens? They all adapt into a quick burst choppy stride type of player as needed.

Guys in the nhl are quicker but guys in Europe have more end to end speed. I like seeing actual skating, skating that picks up speed, not the one second bursts you see in the nhl.

Look at Crosby... Kid couldn't skate end to end right now if he tried. I love watching finland play, they don't just dump the puck in, they take it back and reassess , charge with 4 guys... That's better hockey to me.

And to reply to the post above: yes shorter distance from blue line to goal line but it is still wider. And down low there's more room to set up. We see more passes, more pivots, and nicer slap shot goals from the point. I don't care of people collapse, collapse all you want, cuz the cycling is better.

[chippa13 1844]

I guess guys like Selanne and Bure were reduced to pluggers in the NHL. Such a shame they never showcased their speed.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

You don't think this guy could play in the nhl? You're out of your mind.

He could, but certainly not as the superstar he seemed to think he was.

[grnmtnvt 18]

Yes, Finland was showing all kinds of end to end speed, right? Did you watch any game that Switzerland/Latvia played? It was like reading a phone book, terribly boring and they had all kinds of ice.

There are number of NHL players with that choppy speedy doing quite nicely on this ice- see Phil Kessel.

Are you kidding me, more cycling and pivoting makes for an interesting game? No, goals make for a more interesting game but they aren't scoring more. And neutral zone trapping that is all over the international game, isn't great to watch.

haha, what does Ovie have to do with it? He has been as exciting as ever this year in the NHL and has been mediocre at best, for him, in this tournament.

You don't think this guy could play in the nhl? You're out of your mind.

The nhl ice is a clutter f/ck. you have 5 increasingly faster and stronger guys skating around with 4 goddamn refs. There's no room. Yes the game seems quicker because you only have a few steps before someone is on you....

Every time a big ice player comes into the nhl (think ovi) they are flying their first few years but then what happens? They all adapt into a quick burst choppy stride type of player as needed.

Guys in the nhl are quicker but guys in Europe have more end to end speed. I like seeing actual skating, skating that picks up speed, not the one second bursts you see in the nhl.

Look at Crosby... Kid couldn't skate end to end right now if he tried. I love watching finland play, they don't just dump the puck in, they take it back and reassess , charge with 4 guys... That's better hockey to me.

And to reply to the post above: yes shorter distance from blue line to goal line but it is still wider. And down low there's more room to set up. We see more passes, more pivots, and nicer slap shot goals from the point. I don't care of people collapse, collapse all you want, cuz the cycling is better.

[DigiV 6]

I'm not talking in absolutes here, not every player and every team is going to play end to end fast offensive hockey.... And no more goals doesn't always equal better hockey, that's absurd. NBA Basketball still has tons of points scored but it's still a grudgingly technical boring game with time outs called what seems like every damn second. The NFL has gone to great lengths to improve the game, and they succeeded in making it a more offensive minded affair, but that will only go so far. The game still struggles from constant downtimes between plays, too many commercials etc. My point is, no matter what little changes the NHL does to facilitate a more open higher scoring game (more entertaining) it wont matter. Why?

because guys are getting too fast and too big for this current size ice. This will eventually compound other problems, concusions is one of them. As for kessel... Yah, he's getting to actually show his ability to wheel, same with Jeff carter. They'd be better players on bigger ice.

My belief is that bigger ice allows the game to focus on what makes the game fun to watch- skating, stick handling skills, team play. Constant battles a long side the boards is a part of the game, but in the NHL it seems to be really the only part of the damn game. Whenever i go see a game with a casual fan, or someone that doesn't watch the game a lot they always mention how there's too much "roughness" for the lack of a better word, what they really mean is too much of the board battles, dump and chases and not enough actual play. Furthermore, the complaint that the international game is slower isn't much of a complaint. The game is easier to watch for casual fans, it's not as "jittery" it plays out better, things develop a bit more coherent.

Every time my dad watched the game (being from south america and futbol die hard) he couldn't stand nor undertand why on earth every rush resulted in the offensive team flicking it down the side and chasing it.. it drove him crazy. And i imagine it drives most casual fans crazy. It's too much.

I'm rambling but these are just my thoughts

[Chadd 916]

I think the Blackhawks last 2 Stanley Cup wins may say otherwise. They are pretty much a run and gun team and that seems to work pretty well for them.

I find on the big ice there is more of a patient outside game. It's more of a tight box in the defensive zone and trap in the neutral zone game. Too much sit back and wait for the other team to make a mistake. I won't say it's better or worse, but it is very different.

I've watched a lot of the hawks over the last couple decades and if you think they have won the cup by being a run and gun team, I have no idea what you have been watching. They win by holding down the chances against them to a minimum. They win with offense and puck possession, that is not run and gun hockey. Sure, they have defensive breakdowns, but that's because most of their defensemen aren't very good in their own end or man on man.

As for the original topic, when you have the best players in the world, you will have entertaining games on any ice surface. When you have less talented guys, it isn't as good. Unfortunately, way too many people in north america would throw a fit about the lack of hitting if the game was played on an international ice surface. It's just harder to cover all that extra ice.

[DigiV 6]

As for the original topic, when you have the best players in the world, you will have entertaining games on any ice surface. When you have less talented guys, it isn't as good. Unfortunately, way too many people in north america would throw a fit about the lack of hitting if the game was played on an international ice surface. It's just harder to cover all that extra ice.

Yes, they would and that's obnoxious. These "purists" are usually Canadians that only enjoy the "nitty gritty" as they like to call it. They hated when the Russians and Europeans came over criss crossing all over the place, and they still hate the international style of play now.

Lets not even increase it to Olympic size, how about something between Olympic and NHL? A nice compromise.

[Chadd 916]

Yes, they would and that's obnoxious. These "purists" are usually Canadians that only enjoy the "nitty gritty" as they like to call it. They hated when the Russians and Europeans came over criss crossing all over the place, and they still hate the international style of play now.

Lets not even increase it to Olympic size, how about something between Olympic and NHL? A nice compromise.

I don't think it would benefit the NHL game. There aren't enough top level players to fill out all the teams in the NHL. The net result would be a negative impact on the league.

[DigiV 6]

I don't think it would benefit the NHL game. There aren't enough top level players to fill out all the teams in the NHL. The net result would be a negative impact on the league.

I don't totally buy this argument. So many decent skaters are overlooked because of size, or because they aren't tough enough to deal with all the hits involved in the NHL. The 90's is a perfect example of this- talent was overlooked for size and goons were making a fantastic living being nothing but brutes.

More focus on skating and puck handling at a younger age would help fill that need for a bigger ice style of play.

[grnmtnvt 18]

Your original argument is that they are too fast in the NHL, so we should now look for equally good skaters who are smaller, huh? Now we have equally skilled guys who are now bigger and more athletic. That's a good thing. No NHL players are showing off skill sets in this tournament that weren't already on display in the NHL. Kessel was scoring like crazy like this night in and night out, this isn't new. The NHL is the proving ground. You can't make it- see you in the KHL.

There is NO problem with the level of skill in the NHL right now. None. Virtually no one is complaining that the game is too fast, unskilled, and lacking in excitement. The game is better now than ever. The 'younger age skill stuff' has been thrown around forever. Look at the scoring stats, no one country is dominating and there's no enormous skill divide across the top 4-5 team- only stylistic and even that is a hard argument to really follow through with. There is no single 'European' style. The Finnish, Swiss, and Czechs play a very different game than the Russians.

Few people on here are going to be sympathetic to the argument that these games are more exciting (not sure that's even true) because of the dimensions of the ice and not because you're taking the most skilled players in the world, putting them together and watching them go at it. Put them on a pond in Greenland and it will be an impressive display.

[grnmtnvt 18]

Who are these purists? And what is this 'nitty gritty'? It is a huge simplification of the Canadian game. Is it a more physical style, yes, but this isn't the 70s. Styles have changed and blended.

Yes, they would and that's obnoxious. These "purists" are usually Canadians that only enjoy the "nitty gritty" as they like to call it. They hated when the Russians and Europeans came over criss crossing all over the place, and they still hate the international style of play now.

Lets not even increase it to Olympic size, how about something between Olympic and NHL? A nice compromise.

[wrangler 157]

Good luck selling the NHL on a bigger rink, if they have to eliminate seats because of it. It might even take new stadiums, if it affects the balcony viewing angles enough at some places.

[chippa13 1844]

I don't totally buy this argument. So many decent skaters are overlooked because of size, or because they aren't tough enough to deal with all the hits involved in the NHL. The 90's is a perfect example of this- talent was overlooked for size and goons were making a fantastic living being nothing but brutes.

More focus on skating and puck handling at a younger age would help fill that need for a bigger ice style of play.

We are already seeing more focus on skating and puck handling in the NHL. I guess you haven't noticed guys like Torey Krug or Matt Bartkowski on the Bruins blueline.

[TeamHonda401 54]

I don't totally buy this argument. So many decent skaters are overlooked because of size, or because they aren't tough enough to deal with all the hits involved in the NHL. The 90's is a perfect example of this- talent was overlooked for size and goons were making a fantastic living being nothing but brutes.

More focus on skating and puck handling at a younger age would help fill that need for a bigger ice style of play.

Marty St. Louis, Tyler Ennis, Nathan Gerbe, Cam Atkinson, Tyler Johnson, Tomas Tatar, Gustav Nyquist, Patrick Kane, Jason Pominville, Derek Roy, Cody Hodgson, etc... all would disagree with that statement.

[Chadd 916]

I don't totally buy this argument. So many decent skaters are overlooked because of size, or because they aren't tough enough to deal with all the hits involved in the NHL. The 90's is a perfect example of this- talent was overlooked for size and goons were making a fantastic living being nothing but brutes.

More focus on skating and puck handling at a younger age would help fill that need for a bigger ice style of play.

Coaches and GMs are more willing to take a bigger guy with flaws in his game than a smaller guy with flaws in his game. Unless you're Barry Bonds, you just can't get bigger once you are out of your 20s

[DigiV 6]

We are already seeing more focus on skating and puck handling in the NHL. I guess you haven't noticed guys like Torey Krug or Matt Bartkowski on the Bruins blueline.

That's nice, but there is only so much you can do with a rink size that won't be able to facilitate increasingly faster, stronger, and bigger players. I'm not saying go straight to olympic size, but a nice compromise like those seen in the Swedish and Finish leagues which are between NHL and Olympic size.