Starting in Goal as an Adult

[IPv6Freely 2093]

Vaughn are by far at the bottom of the list as far as innovation. Vaughn is extremely traditional in almost every way. If you want innovation, stick to Warrior and Brian's. I would personally avoid the Bauer but that's mostly because I think their Supreme series is... really low quality. I hated the cheap feeling to them, even on the pro-level stuff. Heck, I had a friend of mine who knows nothing about goalie pads look at the 1S and ask me if they were "the cheap brand" because of the horrible feel of them and the ridiculous glued on logos. They're quite light for sure, but not enough for me to look past the other issues.

FYI Reebok doesn't do hockey anymore so you're just looking at CCM (unless you're buying models from a couple years ago). 

You mentioned not buying pro-level or even top of the line Sr level pads so that basically eliminates Passau as well. You can get a full set of Passau for the same price as just the pro-level leg pads of all the other companies, thanks to the Canadian dollar.

As far as quality/price at the low end, you just won't beat Brian's. Period. Their lowest tier (Netzero) is going to be better quality than almost every other companies mid-level stuff. They also have all the innovation going for them. Smart straps are incredible and I'd recommend them to anyone. I have the entry-level Brian's from a couple years ago (S-Series) and could not be happier with them for a lower-tier pad. 

Personally, I'm in the stiff pad fan club. I'd much rather kick out a rebound and have the time to get set than to have the puck hit me and die in front of me, which is just begging for a bang-in rebound, in my opinion.

On top of all that, the previous model Warrior (G2) were really nice, and very innovative. 

If you're interested in innovative companies (and from your description, it seems like you are) that would immediately eliminate Vaughn and CCM, and push Brian's and Warrior to the front.

My personal recommendation for you is Brian's. Either the Netzero series, or the old Subzero 2 SR level pads.

[IPv6Freely 2093]

By the way what size are you?

[bunnyman666 445]

@tedpenguins Vaughn really is not an innovator. V6 just got into the 'teens with V6, and the "carbon" on the V7 is just that- a "carbon" print on plastic. It's silly.  Their evolution is slow and steady. Whilst a decent offering overall, just not innovative in the least. But Vaughn has stayed relevant because they make good stuff. Bauer has become a joke in my opinion (one that is not shared by a lot of people), and a friend in the know has told me that they have all but abandoned the foam that was supposed to be revolutionary due to warranty problems (permanent dents). But with the construction of the pad, they are not at all user-serviceable and start to look weird after awhile. Yes, they are light, no argument there. The skin of the pad would allow graphics that were impossible with traditional construction, and for some reason has not exploited that attribute (?). If you want an expensive pad that is disposable, buy the new Supreme series. 

IPv6Freely pretty well has said what I would have said, except I have experience with Warrior products, gloves, then pads and chesty in particular.

Warrior is a good place to go for pads. I hate their gloves, but love their pads and chesty. I have the G1 Ritual pads and love them. My rebounds go far. I was playing no fewer than two times per week right up until the 1st of September from the end of April, so they have had enough time to break in and break down a bit. The table top boot has somewhat settled to the shape of the toe cap on my cowling, but not enough to affect rotation. The size of the pad has not adjusted from the foam settling, and my rebounds fly away from me. You will have to pull your binding cord a bit tighter because of the way they are constructed carefully and with even tension. Pete Smith WAS the man who pushed Vaughn out of the '80s, and his innovations continue. If you weren't on a budget, I would send you to Factory Mad; but if you could scrape together around 600 bones, you could get a GREAT set of pads that will last you a long while. You will tire of them before they become mush. 

I have never played with a Brian's pad, but the construction looks to be of high quality. Blindfolded, I couldn't feel the difference between a low senior Brian's and some pro level offerings from other mass-produced brands. I may scrape together 500 bones to try a set of NetZeros. 

Custom is the way to go, but watching sales and scraping together some funds could net you some nice gear.

[tedpenguins 93]

21 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

By the way what size are you?

Right now I'm in a 33+1 but I feel like the 5 hole coverage on them are too small. With that in mind, I'm thinking of trying a 34+1, or if I'm lucky and can find a 33+2 I would look at those too. I'll have to look more into Brian's and possibly make a trip up to my LHS tomorrow.

[bunnyman666 445]

Sunday Drop In Report:

The tale of two mis-matched teams- one with a great player, two okay and two noobies versus two pretty good with two okay players. I played against the latter in my first twenty minutes, and I was made to look silly. Bad angles, poor sightlines and bad tracking was making me cranky. I played with the latter in my last twenty minutes and looked like a Vezina trophy candidate. My tactic of goading players into making bad shots by smacking the stick on the ice paid off in spades. It's kinda like in boxing trying to get your opponent to take a big left hook and you find that they open up and you can connect solidly on the chin with no defense- they go for it ALMOST every time! Clean, open shots when challenging straight on almost ALWAYS get saved, yet they tend to get pissy and aim for the body or head when you give the shooter a DIRECT challenge. If they got one in, it was on me; but unless I am playing against a highly experienced player, they take the bait almost every time!

Good group in this new skate; guess I won't piss Sunday afternoons away and will make my way to my new Sunday afternoon skate.

[bunnyman666 445]

3 hours ago, tedpenguins said:

Right now I'm in a 33+1 but I feel like the 5 hole coverage on them are too small. With that in mind, I'm thinking of trying a 34+1, or if I'm lucky and can find a 33+2 I would look at those too. I'll have to look more into Brian's and possibly make a trip up to my LHS tomorrow.

You probably could make a 34+1" work, but you have to see where in the ILP your knee lands. If wearing a GOOD knee guard, it wouldn't matter about the knee landing in the ILP. The boot can be long in a 34" pad, as well.

+2 is almost ALWAYS custom unless you are buying some that have plus 2" sizing (which is almost ALWAYS a pro pad). I would try Warrior, as they are plus 1.5" and sometimes you can find a plus 2" stock.

One last thing: if you have the $$$, Bauer Reactors have very liberal sizing. I take a 33" in almost everything else, but in Bauers, due to the adjustability, I can do a 34+1" comfortably. Those are old tech, but you may be very happy with them, and they are about to be blown out. 2000, 4000, and 6000 are already being blown out, btw. Beware- the boot in the 34" pad is LONG, made for a size 9-11 skate. 

[Hills 712]

On 9/11/2016 at 7:36 AM, bunnyman666 said:

@tedpenguins Vaughn really is not an innovator. V6 just got into the 'teens with V6, and the "carbon" on the V7 is just that- a "carbon" print on plastic. It's silly.  Their evolution is slow and steady. Whilst a decent offering overall, just not innovative in the least. But Vaughn has stayed relevant because they make good stuff. Bauer has become a joke in my opinion (one that is not shared by a lot of people), and a friend in the know has told me that they have all but abandoned the foam that was supposed to be revolutionary due to warranty problems (permanent dents). But with the construction of the pad, they are not at all user-serviceable and start to look weird after awhile. Yes, they are light, no argument there. The skin of the pad would allow graphics that were impossible with traditional construction, and for some reason has not exploited that attribute (?). If you want an expensive pad that is disposable, buy the new Supreme series. 

IPv6Freely pretty well has said what I would have said, except I have experience with Warrior products, gloves, then pads and chesty in particular.

Warrior is a good place to go for pads. I hate their gloves, but love their pads and chesty. I have the G1 Ritual pads and love them. My rebounds go far. I was playing no fewer than two times per week right up until the 1st of September from the end of April, so they have had enough time to break in and break down a bit. The table top boot has somewhat settled to the shape of the toe cap on my cowling, but not enough to affect rotation. The size of the pad has not adjusted from the foam settling, and my rebounds fly away from me. You will have to pull your binding cord a bit tighter because of the way they are constructed carefully and with even tension. Pete Smith WAS the man who pushed Vaughn out of the '80s, and his innovations continue. If you weren't on a budget, I would send you to Factory Mad; but if you could scrape together around 600 bones, you could get a GREAT set of pads that will last you a long while. You will tire of them before they become mush. 

I have never played with a Brian's pad, but the construction looks to be of high quality. Blindfolded, I couldn't feel the difference between a low senior Brian's and some pro level offerings from other mass-produced brands. I may scrape together 500 bones to try a set of NetZeros. 

Custom is the way to go, but watching sales and scraping together some funds could net you some nice gear.

 

I find it funny how everyone is ripping on Bauer and when push comes to shove the only actual wear points are glued on logos and thigh rise rubbing together... which happens on all other pads as well. Bauer also isn't dumping their foam considering the 1X pads are basically a more flexible 1S. The dents on 1S pads are just the cord from behind the face of the pad pulling it inwards... which happens on all pads but is less noticeable since you actually see the cord.

Here are my Warrior G2 pads, you notice how there are dents and wrinkles? But everyone circlejerks over Warrior being the best thing since sliced bread. It is all about people buying into the hype and marketing and right now Bauer are the big bad boys of the hockey world.

[IPv6Freely 2093]

2 hours ago, Hills said:

I find it funny how everyone is ripping on Bauer and when push comes to shove the only actual wear points are glued on logos and thigh rise rubbing together... which happens on all other pads as well. Bauer also isn't dumping their foam considering the 1X pads are basically a more flexible 1S. The dents on 1S pads are just the cord from behind the face of the pad pulling it inwards... which happens on all pads but is less noticeable since you actually see the cord.

It's not so much wear I care about (though they do wear in a much different way than traditionally constructed pads), or even the awful glued on logos. It's really more that I'm just not seeing the weight savings as enough of a factor to switch to them, and don't see anything else appealing about them. Or put more simply, it's not that I think they're worse; I just think they're no better.

[Hills 712]

5 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

It's not so much wear I care about (though they do wear in a much different way than traditionally constructed pads), or even the awful glued on logos. It's really more that I'm just not seeing the weight savings as enough of a factor to switch to them, and don't see anything else appealing about them. Or put more simply, it's not that I think they're worse; I just think they're no better.

They are basically a more traditional fitting and playing light weight pad compared to the Warrior G2 and G3. If you don't feel the need to switch to the Warrior pads you won't feel the need to switch to these either. To me these are basically the perfect mix between tradition fitting and playing pads and super boxy G2/G3.

[IPv6Freely 2093]

1 minute ago, Hills said:

They are basically a more traditional fitting and playing light weight pad compared to the Warrior G2 and G3. If you don't feel the need to switch to the Warrior pads you won't feel the need to switch to these either. To me these are basically the perfect mix between tradition fitting and playing pads and super boxy G2/G3.

I'd agree with you, it's a nice mid-way point. The big boxy shape is what's kept me away from the Warrior pads. 

[IPv6Freely 2093]

15 hours ago, tedpenguins said:

Right now I'm in a 33+1 but I feel like the 5 hole coverage on them are too small. With that in mind, I'm thinking of trying a 34+1, or if I'm lucky and can find a 33+2 I would look at those too. I'll have to look more into Brian's and possibly make a trip up to my LHS tomorrow.

I went 33+2 on the pads I have on their way now, but also added an aggressive curve and extra stiffness to them as well. The 34+1 didn't fit me at all. I'm in a 33+1 Brian's now. 

[psulion22 402]

There's a tremendous amount of bad information being thrown about on here in the last few posts.

First of all, sizing is based on height, shin length, and skate size.  Without knowing those 3 measurements, it is frankly impossible to determine what size pad they should be in.  Saying "I'm in ____" is absolutely worthless.  Height is not an accurate comparison either, because people who are the same height can have different shin and leg lengths.  I, for eaxmple, have short shins and long thighs for my height.  I need a shorter pad with a longer thigh rise to fit correctly.  In Brian's, I should be a 33+1" based on my height, but I'm actually a 32+2" based on my ATK.  Different pad brands have different measurements as well.  Get the measurements, and find the sizing guide for the brand you want.  That's the only way of more accurately determining what size pad you need, outside of trying pairs on.  And even trying them on isn't perfect unless you are wearing your skates and pants, and preferably on ice because "carpet flys" aren't the same as on ice.

Second, there is confusion between a "stiff" pad and a "stiff core" pad.  The stiffness of the foam inside the pad is what determines how far your rebounds will go.  This is different from a "stiff" pad, like a Subzero or 1S, which refers to flexibility in the knee breaks.  You can have a more flexible pad that still has a stiff core and gives hard rebounds, like a Gnetik and the upcoming 1X.  The stiffness of the breaks provide lateral and torsional stability, which helps increase efficiency of lateral movements.  However to really benefit from the stiffer pad, you need to have good butterfly technique, particularly in weight transfer and hip movements.  If you don't move from side to side with pushes on the ice and recoveries, the stiffer breaks aren't going to benefit you and may actually hamper you because the pad will not twist to be a little more forgiving.  A stiff pad will also put more strain on your hips, knees, and ankles.  Stiffening the core may help sliding efficiency because the core will better distribute your weight, reducing friction.  For me, a stiff core pad with soft breaks is the best.  It gives me the torsional rigitity and stability I want, while still providing a little give.  A 4-4-3/2 Sub3 or the 1X might be my best options.  Vaughn tends to use a softer foam in their core, as do most mid-level pads.  That is why they give soft rebounds.  The foam used in even the senior level Brian's or Bauer pads isn't the same as what is in the pro models.  They are still probably the best values on the market, either the G3 senior or Brian's sr version, because they still have many of the high-end features, and the foam is still pretty solid.

In terms of innovation in pads, no one is innovating like Bauer.  End of story.  They have used new materials in the 1S pads, and have made a true bindingless pad.  Smart straps and post wedges are great.  But Bauer has fused an ultra durable and high performance foam to carbon fiber plates and put that into their pads.  That reduces weight and thickness.  Then they covered that in a skin without bindings.  Bindings create friction, and reduce sliding.  I love my Brian's.  The G3's look very interesting to me.  I truly appreciate all of the little features they have designed into their pads.  But the 1S pad is leaps and bounds ahead of anything else.  Even the little design features are well done.  Their version of the smart strap is the best combination of the Brian's and Warrior version.  It's wider and more secure, like the Warrior, but still has give because it's made of neoprene, unlike the Warrior.  The plastic plates on the knee and calf wings create a great seal and sliding.  You can knock the graphics, and glued on decals, and wrinkles.  We don't have a good marker for durability yet.  BUt they are definitely the most innovative pads out there.

Sizing is incredibly important, even if you have good knee pads.  The pad is designed to distribute weight across the knee and calf, which reduces friction and pressure on the ice.  That is where all of your sliding comes from.  If you aren't landing in the middle of the landing gear, you will be localizing the pressure instead of dispersing it.  That limits slide and causes the pad to bend laterally.  That landing gear isn't there for cushioning.  It's the most important structural component of the pad when it comes to functionality and performance.  If you aren't concerned with maximum sliding ability, then you should be getting a softer break pad that will be more forgiving.  A gnetik2 is a pretty good mix of the two since it still has a solid foam core like the Subzero.  They just design knee breaks into the foam core to allow it to twist.  It appears like Bauer is doing this with the 1X as well.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2016 by psulion22

[IPv6Freely 2093]

Who was giving bad information? 

[psulion22 402]

3 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

Who was giving bad information? 

Several people.  You can sort that out for yourself based on my comments.  I'm not going to call out each individual post.

[IPv6Freely 2093]

3 minutes ago, psulion22 said:

Several people.  You can sort that out for yourself based on my comments.  I'm not going to call out each individual post.

Okay, glad it wasn't me since my advice on sizing and stiffness was pretty much spot on. That's why I was confused. 

[psulion22 402]

24 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

Okay, glad it wasn't me since my advice on sizing and stiffness was pretty much spot on. That's why I was confused. 

Well, there was that bit about Bauer gear.  Just sayin' lol

[IPv6Freely 2093]

1 minute ago, psulion22 said:

Well, there was that bit about Bauer gear.  Just sayin' lol

They may be innovative, but I still don't like them. 

[psulion22 402]

5 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

They may be innovative, but I still don't like them. 

Absolutely fair.  But I wouldn't be so negative about them in terms of recommendation for someone who may like them.  I wouldn't rule anything out for her like that.  Maybe Vaughn because it will be a softer pad with soft rebounds which isn't what she wants.  But the Bauer gear may suit her well if she likes it.  That's all I'm saying.  I'm sure you would agree with me on that.

Edited September 12, 2016 by psulion22

[IPv6Freely 2093]

1 minute ago, psulion22 said:

Absolutely fair.  But I wouldn't be so negative about them in terms of recommendation for someone who may like them.  I wouldn't rule anything out for her like that.  Maybe Vaughn because it will be a softer pad with soft rebounds which isn't what she wants.  But the Bauer gear may suit her well if she likes it.  That's all I'm saying.

Also fair. 

[tedpenguins 93]

Thanks for all the recommendations guys! It seems like I'm going to have to take a full day trip to try on a bunch of different pads all at once to compare. I think I've focused it down to Bauer, Warrior, and Brian's. The good news is that with the extra time I have to use to try everything means that I'll have more time to possibly add some extra money to my pad funds. If I wait until after Christmas time I might even be able to scrape enough funds together to go custom but that off course all depends on what life would decide to throw my way between now and then. 

[bunnyman666 445]

Yes- I got my information about Bauer pads from not one, but two people that repair gear, so it is BIASED. But I stand by my assertion that Bauer does not innovate as far as in favour of the customer as far as consumer repairability or even expert repairability. But the pads are light and fit a fair few users with the adjustability; just don't know about things like boot length trims and such. But performing a boot trim on an OD1N pad is pretty difficult. Many love Bauer's OD1N, which is why I say many don't share my opinion. Maybe I will feel differently when Bauer OD1N wins a few Cups. Vaughn won the last Cup. No- I don't judge solely on whether a brand has won a Cup, though Factory Mad had his fingerprints on Thomas' pads when the Bruins won with him in net. Vaughn makes good stuff, just slightly outdated. 

I found for myself that 34" pads fit a longer boot than a 7.5; tedpenguins may have a bigger boot. 

As far as Warrior stuff goes: I love it 'cos I got well-functioning, Pro-level pads for $400 when I bought my G1 on clearance. Would I pay full price for WARRIOR?!? HELL no. Factory or Jeff Salvi are the only two I would pay full freight to buy. Dave Wilcox is third, btw.

And lastly: I am no expert except for what has (so far) worked for me. However, it may change with the next builder who works with me.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by bunnyman666

[bunnyman666 445]

@Hills Only recommend Warrior because you can buy some good-quality pads CHEAP. Do I love them? No. But I like them.

I rip on Bauer because they are trying to kill user serviceability, that's all. I think their pad should be CHEAPER, but that is my opinion on 9/10 makes.

[tedpenguins 93]

Just curious, if you guys were on a budget and had the option of getting better leg pads or better blocker+glove which would you choose and why? If I did wait a bit I could really go all out with one or the other. Just out of my experience I think I would rather have a better glove+blocker pair for the sole reasoning that the glove would be better broken in and/or easier to break in plus they would have better overall protection on them. 

[bunnyman666 445]

For me- better Glove, then Blocker, then leg pads.

[IPv6Freely 2093]

Having a glove you like, that fits well, is protective yet comfortable, and you have full confidence in is the most important. I'd go leg pads next though. For the most part a blocker is a blocker.