Thinking about getting Graf skates; coming from Reebok 16k

[bunnyman666 445]

Part of me is thinking of getting a pair of Graf Supra 735 or Ultra G5 skates. I am coming from a Reebok 16K. I am getting horrible lace bite; though I am getting some relief from Elite lace bite pads. I can't get anywhere to try on the said skates and the sale ends this weekend. Part of me is thinking of just getting a pair of 20K skates since they will probably fit close to the 16K. I have a super narrow heel and wide toes. My foot isn't terribly big. CCM and Reebok seem to fit me well, Bauer seem to be too narrow in the forefoot unless it is the Nexus line (but then the heel gets sloppy after awhile).

FOR THOSE WHO KNOW GRAF AND REEBOK: will I have problems with fit? How narrow is the toe box on the Graf regular width compared to the Reebok? Do I just need custom skates or continue using Reebok until they go away? Does the 20K have a better tongue that doesn't give lace bite unlike the 16K? Am I just bloody nutters and need to play golf? Maybe select Tiddly Winks?

I am just tired of having skates feel awesome the first couple of months and then start to bitterly disappoint me after the two month period. Argh.

[Stewie 721]

Part of me is thinking of getting a pair of Graf Supra 735 or Ultra G5 skates. I am coming from a Reebok 16K. I am getting horrible lace bite; though I am getting some relief from Elite lace bite pads. I can't get anywhere to try on the said skates and the sale ends this weekend. Part of me is thinking of just getting a pair of 20K skates since they will probably fit close to the 16K. I have a super narrow heel and wide toes. My foot isn't terribly big. CCM and Reebok seem to fit me well, Bauer seem to be too narrow in the forefoot unless it is the Nexus line (but then the heel gets sloppy after awhile).

I am just tired of having skates feel awesome the first couple of months and then start to bitterly disappoint me after the two month period. Argh.

i am not sure if your looking for some sort of feedback here, or just using this as a livejournal entry.

[bunnyman666 445]

i am not sure if your looking for some sort of feedback here, or just using this as a livejournal entry.

Not a livejournal entry, whatever the hell that is...

I want input from people who know both skates. Just gave back ground on where I am coming from.

It's not like I have made thirty bloody threads about the same bloody thing.

[Stewie 721]

well from the sounds of your issues with skates, you might need to just go custom. I dont know if too many manufacturers are going to tailor to your foot dimensions since they seem very odd (having only found pump skates to lock your heel in like youve mentioned on other posts). Your post just seemed like you were mentioning a bunch of things without any direct questions like "can anyone comment on the fit of these skates?"

[bunnyman666 445]

well from the sounds of your issues with skates, you might need to just go custom. I dont know if too many manufacturers are going to tailor to your foot dimensions since they seem very odd (having only found pump skates to lock your heel in like youve mentioned on other posts). Your post just seemed like you were mentioning a bunch of things without any direct questions like "can anyone comment on the fit of these skates?"

Fixed.

[Stewie 721]

have you tried experimenting with how your tying your skates, and what laces you use? I was having some lace bite issues with my CCM U10s, but now i tighten less in the middle of the lace-up, and I havent had that issue since, still go fairly tight in the top and bottom of the lacing.

[bunnyman666 445]

Waxed laces aren't the right answer probably, but I want to not have to re-tie every shift. I tried a couple of different ways to tie with no avail. Like I said- no issues with Bauer Nexus until they fully broke in and I have the world's sloppiest heel EVER. Those were Barcoloungers on my feet!!!! Need to try the pencil test, as I finally saw what it was. Maybe I need to tie the laces above the lace lock looser than on the instep. I swear I never had these issues when I was younger, but I wasn't on my feet 10+ hours per day for work then, either. I admit that with the new stance the power skating coach has me on, I find lace bite is much worse with my knees bent more.

Unfortunately, there aren't many knowledgeable workers in shoppes or rinks these days, so I rely upon forums like this.

[Stewie 721]

i use waxed laces for my technique. actually it makes it easier.

[bunnyman666 445]

I've been using waxed laces since my return to the ice.

Maybe I should just save my coin for a pair of VH or maybe get some Makos...

[flip12 717]

It sounds like you and I may have similar feet. I had really bad heel issues in 90's Bauer Supremes and the first Vapor line. Switched to Graf 705's and they were comfy as hell. I've read they have more quality issues now, but if you can find a pair or a place to try them on, there may be a fit that works for you. They've gone away from their broad fit offerings, which is understandable even though it's a shame because it's the right idea. I've never skated in Reebok, so I can't comment on that comparison.

[bunnyman666 445]

It sounds like you and I may have similar feet. I had really bad heel issues in 90's Bauer Supremes and the first Vapor line. Switched to Graf 705's and they were comfy as hell. I've read they have more quality issues now, but if you can find a pair or a place to try them on, there may be a fit that works for you. They've gone away from their broad fit offerings, which is understandable even though it's a shame because it's the right idea. I've never skated in Reebok, so I can't comment on that comparison.

It is highly frustrating for me, flip12. What I have spent on skates in the past year, I could have bought custom :( The problems I have with skates don't rear their ugly heads until I have been in the skates for a few months, and it is highly frustrating.

Graf jumped out at me because of the narrow heel; but I can't even get to a place that has them before the sale ends.

[z1ggy 81]

How much would you be saving on the sale?? Is it more than the cost of shipping them back to the supplier? If so, why not just take a leap of faith and pull the trigger.

[jonesy9020 77]

Is the lacebite problem in your 16Ks more a depth issue or is it a problem with the flimsy tongue that reebok for some reason refuses to upgrade?

If the 16s fit well besides a lousy tongue, your cheapest fix may be to replace the tongues with something from another skate with better lace bite protection.

[jonesy9020 77]

Also, when you say Bauer doesn't fit, what have you tried besides nexus? Supreme or Vapor in EE might be worth a look. I think we may have a similar overall foot shape, but your forefoot might be a little wider than mine. Supreme was the only skate I could get a good heel lock in after trying pretty much every brand but Graf (stores in my area don't carry it). I tried on D and EE, and D felt a little tight but I went with them and haven't regretted it. EE had a great heel lock too but was a little wide in the forefoot, which seems like it'd work out well for you.

Sorry, very little knowledge on Graf fit.

[bunnyman666 445]

Also, when you say Bauer doesn't fit, what have you tried besides nexus? Supreme or Vapor in EE might be worth a look. I think we may have a similar overall foot shape, but your forefoot might be a little wider than mine. Supreme was the only skate I could get a good heel lock in after trying pretty much every brand but Graf (stores in my area don't carry it). I tried on D and EE, and D felt a little tight but I went with them and haven't regretted it. EE had a great heel lock too but was a little wide in the forefoot, which seems like it'd work out well for you.

Sorry, very little knowledge on Graf fit.

Vapor were painful in the forefoot. Ditto for Supreme.

I may just upgrade the tongue. Now that I finally understand the pencil test, I will try that.

[jonesy9020 77]

There are a number of skates out there with good tongues, but one of my favorites (for the tongue, if not the rest of the skate) was the Mission L7. There are a few on eBay now if you decide to go that route. Really good lacebite guard running up the middle, foams that mold to your foot with heat, and they tapered off the felt on the sides of your foot so you can lace up tight and they won't get in the way.

[bunnyman666 445]

Yeah- the tongue on my 16K is annoyingly thin with a joke of a lacebite guard. I see a couple of those L7 skates brand new, as well.

Foot passes the pencil test, btw.

[jonesy9020 77]

Yup, most on there are new, guess people stocked up. didn't know if you wanted to throw down 100+ on a new skate just to take the tongues. In my experience the L7 creased and broke down way too fast, and it would definitely be too narrow for your foot.

[moreoutdoor 6]

just my view...

I skated on Graf 605s (705 boot style) for over a yr. Never-ending lacebite, hardly mitigated by anything...

Turns out they are a 'low' boot height design, along with avg volume over the instep... awful painful

I've tried on, over the past 6 months, Bauers, Eastons, CCMs, Reeboks.

Of these, older model CCM Vectors, pre-RBZ fit me the best. Reeboks too loose all the way around for me...

But I also found that the Eastons (S15 & Stealth 65s tried...) have really excellent heel hold-down (good pocket and super L-pad design) and would fit a narrow heel well. They also are wider in the forefoot than most in the 'D' width - more width (I'm C-) than I can handle without doing serious mods to get a tighter forefoot. Still, even without mods, they skate really great - Have a higher boot design (than Graf), good volume over the instep for my high instep, and really snug heel (makes the looser forefoot almost acceptable), great tongue AND absolutely no lacebite... (none with CCM or Bauer either - just Graf). Pitch of the holder/blade work ok for me, 9 ft radius needs to be flattened to 10-11 for me.

The older S15s are snugger fit in the heel than the new designs...

might try on some Eastons and see how they fit you.

YMMV...

[bunnyman666 445]

Maybe this could solve my problem: http://modsquadhockey.com/forums/index.php/topic/63827-55-flex-improves-skate-flex/?hl=flex

[Neo5370 132]

I've been using waxed laces since my return to the ice.

Maybe I should just save my coin for a pair of VH or maybe get some Makos...

Do NOT get Makos. Like you I have a narrow ankle/heel and wide forefoot. For retail skates, 703's fit me best. I've also had a pair of custom Vapor X60's w/ a AAA heel and a EEE forefoot (though I probably would've been better off w/ an E forefoot, or even a D w/ a slight boot punching).

I am currently in a pair of Mako I's. The heel and ankle WILL NOT WORK FOR YOU. The rest of the skate is fantastic except for all the excess room I have in the heel and ankle area. I am currently using EZ fit booties to fill in the negative space but it's really more of a band-aid than a solution until I can get a new pair of skates.

I haven't seen the Mako II's in person so I'm not sure if the improvements to those areas would be enough.

[bunnyman666 445]

Do NOT get Makos. Like you I have a narrow ankle/heel and wide forefoot. For retail skates, 703's fit me best. I've also had a pair of custom Vapor X60's w/ a AAA heel and a EEE forefoot (though I probably would've been better off w/ an E forefoot, or even a D w/ a slight boot punching).

I am currently in a pair of Mako I's. The heel and ankle WILL NOT WORK FOR YOU. The rest of the skate is fantastic except for all the excess room I have in the heel and ankle area. I am currently using EZ fit booties to fill in the negative space but it's really more of a band-aid than a solution until I can get a new pair of skates.

I haven't seen the Mako II's in person so I'm not sure if the improvements to those areas would be enough.

Good to know.

[bunnyman666 445]

Decided to get a pair of 20k at an awesome price. Will have the SB +4.0 holders put on those, and turn the current 16k skates into a back up pair. The fit profile should be the same, but a top end skate should have a better tongue. If 55Flex ever contacts me about why I am having ordering issues, I will have a set of those ready...

Thanks to those of you who have offered your personal experiences. I just hope the 20k last longer than what some reviews have said they do. My only gripe about the 16k is the tongue being so bloody thin...