Supreme vs Vapor Boot Height

[boo10 323]

Picked up a pair of 190s because the deal was too good to pass up. I was very surprised to find that even unbaked, the 190 has better forward flex than the broken in X7.0s and X:30s I have. I couldn't understand this because the curv is stiffer than tech mesh or nylon. I decided to take out a tape measure and measure from the bottom of the outsole to the top of the top eyelet, (outside wall, straight line ignoring boot curvature). I was very surprised to find that the 190 was 5 1/2", while both Vapors were 5 3/4". 190 and X7.0 are 7 1/2D, X:30 are 8D. I was always lead to believe that Supremes were cut higher than Vapors, but this was not the case. Anybody else notice this? Are my eyes playing tricks on me?

[gosinger 122]

Well, I wouldn't necessarily equate forward flex with the height of a boot (or the height of the top eyelet for that matter).

One factor might be that the Vapor has a way more aggressive shape in regards to eyelet position, almost an L (almost straight and then a sharp curve upwards), while the Supreme is more gradual.

[boo10 323]

Eyelet height is not the only factor, but it is most definitely a factor. That is why going down an eyelet allows for more forward flex.

[vinprun71 61]

Coming from Vapor APXs to Supreme MX3s, I can say that I've noticed something along the lines of what you're mentioning. I don't think the boot height is what your issue is though. As stated earlier, the rise of the eyelets, as well as their height, could affect this. Likewise, I felt slightly pitch forward making the switch between the two skates. Both sets of skates had a neutral profile as well. I noticed a difference as soon as I jumped on the ice with the MX3s. Overall, I greatly prefer the MX3s.

[boo10 323]

I really like what I'm feeling in the 190s. Just really surprised me because I was always told that Supremes were higher cut, which I don't care for. I skate with the top eyelet open on Vapors.

[flip12 717]

Well, I wouldn't necessarily equate forward flex with the height of a boot (or the height of the top eyelet for that matter).

One factor might be that the Vapor has a way more aggressive shape in regards to eyelet position, almost an L (almost straight and then a sharp curve upwards), while the Supreme is more gradual.

This is an interesting question. Does the L-shape promote forward flex or inhibit it?

I thought the L-cut was supposed to promote forward flex, as I recall the original Bauer Vapor 8's promotional materials featuring a diagram showing exactly that: L-shape Vapor for more forward flex and agility/finesse, C-shape Supreme for more power. But come to think of it now, I accepted the marketing of the promotional materials without thinking about it.

Edit: having their product images open in neighboring tabs and switching back and forth, is it just me or does it look like the uppermost eyelets more forward on the Supreme than the Vapor? If that's not just a misleading vision on my part, I could see how the Supremes yield more forward flex.

[vinprun71 61]

This is an interesting question. Does the L-shape promote forward flex or inhibit it?

I thought the L-cut was supposed to promote forward flex, as I recall the original Bauer Vapor 8's promotional materials featuring a diagram showing exactly that: L-shape Vapor for more forward flex and agility/finesse, C-shape Supreme for more power. But come to think of it now, I accepted the marketing of the promotional materials without thinking about it.

Edit: having their product images open in neighboring tabs and switching back and forth, is it just me or does it look like the uppermost eyelets more forward on the Supreme than the Vapor? If that's not just a misleading vision on my part, I could see how the Supremes yield more forward flex.

I see what you're saying here. I believe the wider boot on the Supreme, as well as what appears to be more forward pitch, contributes to what you're seeing here. The Vapor boot is definitely tighter with less space around the ankle. The Supreme has more space as designed.

[TyVan27 0]

How did you find the change from Vapors to Supremes? Huge difference?

[vinprun71 61]

How did you find the change from Vapors to Supremes? Huge difference?

It took me a game to get used to the new wheels. The immediate on-ice difference I noticed was blade height and feel. It was different. Not bad but different. Likewise, the fit was definitely different. There's less toe box room, it's snugger below the toes but before the heel. The heel has a standard fit, not narrow. Additionally, the boot depth was noticeable.

After a year and a half in Vapors, I got severe lace bite on my right ankle. After months of research and bunga pads, I came to the conclusion that while I might be able to get rid of the lace bite with time off, it would just come back again if I didn't get a deeper boot. I spent a lot of money moving to MX3s from perfectly (structurally) good Vapor APXs, but it was worth it. I'm able to lace all the way up again and not have pain while skating. My switch made hockey return to fun for me. I now look forward to playing games again and not the pain I'm going to have in the golf ball sized lump on my ankle.

In short, the Supreme fit isn't for all feet type. For me, when I put on Supreme skates at my LHS and laced them up, I knew immediately that this was the resolution to my lace bite issue that I was searching for. It took a while to come to grips with the money to correct the issue, but I'm happy that I did it.

[TyVan27 0]

I find the feel of the Supremes so much softer than Vapors. Went from Vapor X:60 to Supreme 190s.

[Zorlac 22]

almost identical STORY TO MINE. Came from original APX to MX3s. Lace bite and low volume destroyed my feet after a year or more in them. Now with MX3s, not only do I lace all the way up, but the forward flex hurts no longer.

If you refer to feel as less stiff of a boot, then yes. I agree. I still feel a bit "sloppy" in the MX3, but I'm getting used to it.

[A2rhino 63]

I find this all interesting. I could never fit in a Vapor size 9D due to it being far to tight in the forefoot and have been in Supremes (very comfortably) since the Total One, One100 first came out. I tried on the MX models and they fit my forefoot very tight the way the Vapor APX models do. I tried on the Vapor 1X a couple weeks ago and BINGO! I fit into it. Not sure why, but happy none the less.

[Zorlac 22]

My APX and APX2s BOTH have more width in the toebox than my MX3s. I'm DYING to try on some 1X skates. If the volume is right, I'm selling ALL my skates ASAP!

RHINO, do you see the 1X has comparable volume to the MX3?

[A2rhino 63]

Personally I found it to fit me exactly the way my current Supremes do. Room in the toe box and forefoot. Great wrap and best of all an even tighter heel lock.

[Bulawa 2]

I came from NXG and 20K to the MX3,totally adoring it for its lower cut. I feel a lot more agile. Unfortunately my foot has more of a Vapor shape and keeps widening so I'm forced out of my MX3...

[vinprun71 61]

I came from NXG and 20K to the MX3,totally adoring it for its lower cut. I feel a lot more agile. Unfortunately my foot has more of a Vapor shape and keeps widening so I'm forced out of my MX3...

Have you tried a wide Supreme skate yet? Might be worth a go if you like the skate otherwise.

[Bulawa 2]

Have you tried a wide Supreme skate yet? Might be worth a go if you like the skate otherwise.

Well I did and it's awfully wide at the heel. It comes quite unfortunate that Swiss resellers don't stock widths other than D and EE. I'll open up a thread on the issue later in the evening.