"Advanced age" - learning backwards crossovers?

[proth0303 29]

I've been skating/playing hockey for a bit over 3 months now and with a whole lot of ice time and coaching I'm starting to feel much more comfortable.  Hockey stops and forward crossovers on my weak side were once completely foreign to me and now I'm finding myself using them in games.  I attribute a lot of my growth to learning the mechanics from my coaches and working on them during public skates with my wife.

My question is for those that learned to skate at an "advanced age" (or maybe those that teach adults?), was there a specific technique and/or video that helped you learn backwards crossovers?  I have looked at several videos and I seem to struggle with finding one that really resonates with me as it feels as if the videos go from basic steps 1 and 2 to steps 3,4,5,6,7,... (this is meant to imply that steps 1 and 2 are covered deliberately and slowly and steps 3-... are done in a fraction of a second).  

Thanks!

[marka 526]

Howdy,

I've got another year or so on you, but otherwise similar.  I'm at the point now where I can do backwards crossovers in either direction without worrying about it much when I practice.  In games I think it happens occasionally, but honestly don't know.

I don't think there's any magic bullet in terms of learning to do them.  Doing backwards c-cuts around a circle helps some to get most of the motion down (remember, your outside leg steps over your inside leg).  One foot backwards glides helped me get a little more steady on one leg going backwards which helped.

After I could sorta do them, another thing that helped for confidence for me was doing alternating backwards crossovers going backwards in a straight line.  You can see what I mean in this vid (at 26:45, if the start time thing doesn't work) :
 

Don't get discouraged that you can't do it anything like what this guy can do... Neither can I or most anyone else I know.  There's a reason he's doing youtube skating vids and I'm not.  :-)

 

Anyway, that's mostly kinda a rhythm thing, and after a number of "no fucking way, I can't make that work" things, I started to feel it.  That, by itself, made me much more confident on my outside edge during backwards crossovers.

 

Hope some of this helps!

Mark

[proth0303 29]

Thanks Mark!  I'm still "drinking from a fire hose" so while I have watched this video before, having someone point out one specific drill to work on is much appreciated. :)

 

[psulion22 402]

See if you get video of yourself trying the crossovers.  You'll be able to get much more constructive input on here.

Without actually seeing what you are doing, it would be hard for me to say what you should be doing.

What about the back crossover are you struggling with?  This video is very good.  I'm going to watch it a few times.  But it's geared for those who have the basic fundamentals down and are trying to improve their technique by using more edges.  If you don't know the basis for a back crossover, this isn't going to help you.  

I'd maybe see if you can find an adult beginner figure skating course.  No, it's not hockey.  But skating is skating and those classes break down technique and build teach things step by step.

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

It's all about your edges and knowing how to use them.  Go take some figure skating lessons.  Figure skaters spend the majority of their time skating backwards, and really know how to engage their edges for speed, agility, and efficiency.  

[proth0303 29]

31 minutes ago, psulion22 said:

See if you get video of yourself trying the crossovers.  You'll be able to get much more constructive input on here.

Without actually seeing what you are doing, it would be hard for me to say what you should be doing.

What about the back crossover are you struggling with?  This video is very good.  I'm going to watch it a few times.  But it's geared for those who have the basic fundamentals down and are trying to improve their technique by using more edges.  If you don't know the basis for a back crossover, this isn't going to help you.  

I'd maybe see if you can find an adult beginner figure skating course.  No, it's not hockey.  But skating is skating and those classes break down technique and build teach things step by step.

I appreciate the thought but I literally do not have the mechanics in my head down so any video would be of me sitting there with smoke coming out of my ears wondering what the hell I should be doing. ;) 

I am enrolled in a hockey class (80% skating/20% hockey); however, we have not spent much time on backwards crossovers yet.  While I'm not a participant, I watch my wife's figure skating lessons to see what I can pick up but they aren't to backwards crossovers yet either.  I was simply looking for advice from others that found something specific that helped it "click" for them.  A good example of this was the specific drill in the video that Mark provided.

[marka 526]

Howdy,

Speaking of other vids that helped me... This one was one that was good.
 

 

The first part is just all about crossing your legs over one another and it applies to both forward and backward crossovers.  It was from an adult skills class rather than this vid, but one of the things I did that helped get me more comfortable was to go from one side of the rink to the other, just stepping across my body like he's showing there.  At first, it felt really unnatural to be crossing my feet.  I'm still not some whirling dervish of spraying ice chunks like the good people, but at least now I get over there without using a sundial.  :-)

 

The second part in the vid is what I was talking about re: doing c-cuts around a circle as a building block.  And this is probably obvious, but just in case... Jeremy goes from doing those c-cuts to immediately crossing over after about two circles around the ice... I would say that for me to get to the first bambi like cross over took me more like 100 circles around the ice.  :-)

Mark

[psulion22 402]

Take the figure skating class with your wife.  It will teach more than the hockey class will.

The backwards crossover drill is a good one, especially to increase the power and speed of the crosses by getting better edge contact.  it's not going to help you if you can't do them at all.  The reality is that skating is a very specific skill that requires instruction.  Self teaching is incredibly difficult because if you don't have the technique correct, you can't see what you are doing wrong.

I have coached beginner adults in the past.  I can tell you that I have never seen a true beginner player improve substantially from just taking those clinics.  There isn't enough time to go over one specific skill and build one to the next, unless you are going to use the whole clinic for that.  You need to have at least a base of skills to work with to get any real benefits.  I have also never seen a player who will work on things on their own after the clinic improve.  They typically aren't doing things correctly and don't know how to fix it.  I have, however, made corrections to those players and gotten them to do what they wanted in a relatively short period of time.  (I taught a girl to do back crossovers in about 15-20 minutes)  Your time is going to be better served if you either spend it working on things you know and can improve or get private lessons.  I know you're anxious to be the best player you can be.  But I'm sure there are a lot of things you can work on without worrying about a skill you haven't been taught yet.  Improving your forward skating, crosses, and stops, plus shooting and especially making/receiving passes is going to make you a much better player than worrying about a skill you may not use that often in a game.  I've seen a lot of guys get focused on perfecting some skill they won't use, like picking the puck up on their blade or even taking one-timers, and neglecting everything else.  Great, you have this awesome slapshot.  Too bad you can't skate well enough to ever be in a position to use it.  (I'm not saying this is you, just giving you perspective)

Back crossovers can be taught with a building block process.  Work on being able to move yourself sideways with just a back wards c-cut.  That's it.  C-cut right, so you move left.  Do that slowly around a circle, only pushing on one side.  Then go the other way doing the same thing.  Remember to keep your knees bent, butt low, back straight, and head up.  If you don't get the knees bent and butt down enough, crossing will be difficult because you will restrict your range of motion. something to focus on is engaging the outside edge of the glide skate.  It is what is going to control your movement and provide stability.  Try to roll your ankle slightly to get more edge down.  When you can do that quickly and under control and maintain balance and stance, add a cross with the push foot.  C-cut and then bring the foot over the other.  Engage the inside edge and just skate with your legs crossed, both skates on the ice, respective edges engaged.  Get that feeling of how to balance your weight to make it stable.  Sometimes thinking of crossing the back foot under and behind rather than the front foot over will help.  Just go around the circle liek this, both directions, until its comfortable and stable.  Once there, you can work on returning by making an outside edge c-cut on the back leg.  You'll engage the edge near the toe and make a cut, and pull that leg back underneath you.  After that, it's just repetition and pushing how quickly and powerfully you can do that.

[krisdrum 233]

Totally agree on the figure skating instruction.  I just signed back up for some locally after starting with this about 3 years ago.  Before life got out of control, within the span of 6-9 months of weekly group skating lessons (I was a complete beginner at the start, barely stand up or forward stride), I was just getting very comfortable doing backwards crossovers and mohawk transitions.  It has been 2 years since lessons and no consistent ice time and it is VERY clear I need to get back to basics and build my skills back up. 

[Vet88 674]

Bottom line for a backward crossover (or any crossover for that matter) is the ability to balance on the inside and outside foot. If you can't do that you can't crossover. One foot balance drills, one foot slaloms, one foot inside and outside edges, straight line one footed c cuts, all good drills for one foot balance control. Then the c cut in a circle drill is one of the next steps, it's not the c cut you are really working on at first but the ability to maintain your balance and an outside edge on the inside foot as you perform the c cut and turn in a circle. As you practice this and your balance gets better then you are able to start transferring weight and power to the outside foot. Then you can start to do drills that involve lifting the outside foot such as push it out with a c cut then halfway thru the c cut you lift the outside foot off the ice then bring it back in to the inside foot. You are now almost at a crossover.

[proth0303 29]

15 hours ago, marka said:

Howdy,

Speaking of other vids that helped me... This one was one that was good.
 

The first part is just all about crossing your legs over one another and it applies to both forward and backward crossovers.  It was from an adult skills class rather than this vid, but one of the things I did that helped get me more comfortable was to go from one side of the rink to the other, just stepping across my body like he's showing there.  At first, it felt really unnatural to be crossing my feet.  I'm still not some whirling dervish of spraying ice chunks like the good people, but at least now I get over there without using a sundial.  :-)

 

The second part in the vid is what I was talking about re: doing c-cuts around a circle as a building block.  And this is probably obvious, but just in case... Jeremy goes from doing those c-cuts to immediately crossing over after about two circles around the ice... I would say that for me to get to the first bambi like cross over took me more like 100 circles around the ice.  :-)

Mark

Thanks again!  I had watched that video before and it was very similar to the one hockey session I had where we started to work on backwards crossovers.  For whatever reason, I wasn't able to notice the specific mechanics/nuances until I watched the specific drill you pointed out in the "Train the Trainers" video.  

I had been trying to become more proficient at my weak side forward crossovers and despite several efforts I wasn't feeling any more comfortable.  All it took was a couple "new" coaches (substituting for my normal coaches that were off at a tournament one weekend) that said a few different things and all of a sudden it clicked!  

While I certainly have a long way to go, the mechanics are starting to make sense and is something I can work on.  

Cheers! :)     

[proth0303 29]

Well, it's been about 4 weeks since my post and I'm happy to report that I'm actually able to do backwards crossovers.  As with any skating skill I've learned so far, I'm certainly stronger in one direction but at least have the mechanics down to start building from.  Ironically enough what helped was a little bit of everything that was posted.  I worked on what was in the videos and started to feel better but what really made it click for me was watching my wife's figure skating lesson.  I noticed how they were doing a drill of backwards C cuts and doing crossovers without lifting either foot off the ice (they weren't crossing over very far).  It was just a drill but when I tried to do this on my own it helped me really feel how my feet would work together during the crossover while still maintaining my balance.  Sure enough, once I started to feel more comfortable I found myself lifting my feet off the ice to reach out for a stronger pull. :)

[Amazinmets73 69]

I've been skating a little over a year and a half. This is going to sound cliché, but the best advice I can give you for backwards crossovers is practice, practice, and more practice. It took me 6 months of skating before I could preform backwards crossovers on my dominant side during game intensity and over a year for weak side.

Weak sides are a real bitch. I recommend focusing the majority of your attention on weak side, as we have a natural inclination to focus on our dominant side