Bitcoin

[Cosmic 178]

Anyone paying attention to Bitcoin, and the rest of the cryptocurrency market?

https://coinmarketcap.com/

Edited May 24, 2017 by Cosmic

[JR Boucicaut 3802]

@tryandstopme

[IPv6Freely 2093]

Yea a friend of mine bought a ton of it back when it wasn't worth anything. Lucky bastard.

[tryandstopme 35]

I bought some in 2013 when it dropped down into the 70 handle. Sold multiple chunks all at over 1000 per. The reasoning for the drop when I bought was purely emotional driven, not based on fundamentals. I always trade contrary to mass emotions, and this seemed like classic case of that. Too rich for my blood to trade now because (unless things have changed) you can't do margin accounts in BTC.

Cheers!

 

[Cosmic 178]

14 hours ago, tryandstopme said:

I bought some in 2013 when it dropped down into the 70 handle. Sold multiple chunks all at over 1000 per. The reasoning for the drop when I bought was purely emotional driven, not based on fundamentals. I always trade contrary to mass emotions, and this seemed like classic case of that. Too rich for my blood to trade now because (unless things have changed) you can't do margin accounts in BTC.

Cheers!

 

I am not sure what margining accounts means. I tried to read up on it, but reading traditional financial material just bores the hell out of me and puts me to sleep (from a quick Google search):

https://www.finra.org/investors/understanding-margin-accounts-why-brokers-do-what-they-do

If Tone Vays or Francis Hunt could explain it, in a video (I like their voices, they do not put me to sleep) then I could probably get it. I just buy it and sit on it, and am hoping for a Critical Mass Adoption Effect that is gonna make this jump. Sort of like "The Big Short," buying into this is like betting against the economy, which I tend to think to be a safe bet. Obviously, I know little on investing, and am admittedly not even terribly interested in the matter (I just require wealth to live on this planet, and am open to receiving abundance of wealth so I open the channels for reception and accumulation), so please do not take this as financial advice.

Anyway, on margining accounts, I doubt it is available. One of the apparent "points" of Bitcoin is P2P investing, selling, which would seem to inherently require having cash on hand and just doing it yourself. No market close, no loans, no calls. I know you can short a coin, with one app, but Francis Hunt advises against shorting, and I am not sophisticated enough anyway to start putting shorts out there. Margining accounts seems to be something that your broker (or whatever 3rd party) does (I got confused when they started talking about "Calls," and I am not researching that today HA!- maybe tomorrow I will learn it).

[tryandstopme 35]

Bitcoin just doesn't have the infrastructure yet for easy currency trading. It's way easier to trade the big currency pairs using Oanda or a similar platform. And yep, margin accounts are basically just leveraged/loan accounts. For example I'm long GBP/USD because everyone thought that the UK was going to go to hell in a handbasket due to Brexit, which I think (and so far history is backing me up) is manure. I'm long 10,000 units, but I've only got 1000 USD on deposit with the broker so in essence the broker has loaned me a little over 9000 USD. Calls kick in basically when your trade starts going against you. For example if the GBP went in the crapper, the broker would require me to put more money on deposit in order to keep my position or they will liquidate the position and any losses would be covered by me.

Out of curiosity why do you think betting against the economy is a safe bet? I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I'm interested to hear why you think that is the case.

 

[Jamarquan 201]

6 hours ago, tryandstopme said:

Bitcoin just doesn't have the infrastructure yet for easy currency trading. It's way easier to trade the big currency pairs using Oanda or a similar platform. And yep, margin accounts are basically just leveraged/loan accounts. For example I'm long GBP/USD because everyone thought that the UK was going to go to hell in a handbasket due to Brexit, which I think (and so far history is backing me up) is manure. I'm long 10,000 units, but I've only got 1000 USD on deposit with the broker so in essence the broker has loaned me a little over 9000 USD. Calls kick in basically when your trade starts going against you. For example if the GBP went in the crapper, the broker would require me to put more money on deposit in order to keep my position or they will liquidate the position and any losses would be covered by me.

Out of curiosity why do you think betting against the economy is a safe bet? I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I'm interested to hear why you think that is the case.

 

Because the economy tends to crash every ten years or so, and the last few have been due to negligence on the part of Wall Street, which has not been fixed - the big short is all about this - very good movie, it's on Netflix.

Disclaimer : I'm not old enough to have been alive for y2k so take that with a grain of salt.

[Cosmic 178]

14 hours ago, tryandstopme said:

Out of curiosity why do you think betting against the economy is a safe bet? I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I'm interested to hear why you think that is the case.

 

I should correct that, perhaps I am not betting against the economy. The gross economy may grow, but if this is simply due to the rich getting richer (the lobbied up corps and banksters), the middle class is squeezed out, and the poor just keep getting more poor, then is that truly growth? Will this situation lend itself to the masses continuing to have faith in traditional means of saving? I doubt it, so, thank you for inviting me to clarify. I consider myself to be betting against the masses continuing to buy in to the legacy institutions, which are not dynamic financial instruments at all.

For example, in my Roth IRA, in order to get tax amnesty, I need to go through some miscellaneous guy and his random company, pay them 1.5% of my capital, to then buy VanGuard. The guy says that the money is necessary to pay the people who administer the account. What the hell is so hard about ticking a box that says, in essence, "This guy is saving for retirement so he does not leech the system. Forgive him of his tax."

Legacy system - obsolete - evolve or dissolve, please. 

Anyway, I ran the math, and 15% capital gains tax is about equivalent to this guy's 1.5% total wealth tax that he levies. I should add, that I get no choice at my work in regard to who "manages" my Roth IRA. I quote manage because I go into the software, and I pick the stocks. What the heck does my guy do for me? Nothing, except maybe file some forms to another legacy institution, which creates this nuisance in the first place, to then give this guy a role in the machine of futility.

Then banks, and bank accounts. So lame- where's my interest? 0.01% really? Ok, so I have ease of access to small amounts of my money, and what, this is so hard for the legacy system to manage, that they cannot pay me interest? Yea, ok. What do I look like I fell off the turnup truck?

Anyway, Bitcoin is all in one- an international bank account that gives big interest. I t can also serve as a Public Trust Social Security fund- at least that is how I plan to use it as I am in for the long haul. In the short haul tho, I like that I can do what I want, when I want, without needing to ask permission from people in expensive buildings with expensive suits (which we pay for) who help me get the bureaucracy that is them, out of the way. 

Just so analog, the legacy system. Anyway, I like to think I am ahead of the curve, in my realization of my underwhelmedness at the utility that the legacy system provides, in conjunction with my appreciation of this alternative. As more move to this headspace that I am in, I ought to be rewarded for getting here first, according to my understanding of the Bitcoin machine. Do I think this is "Fair?" Like I get to the bus stop first, so I get to choose where I sit? I do not care; I do not think in these terms. It is a means of generating an abundance of wealth (which appears to be a requirement for living on this planet), so I am generating wealth at Bitcoin speed. 

[Jamarquan 201]

I should really learn how to Bitcoin. Looks confusing. 

[IPv6Freely 2093]

39 minutes ago, Jamarquan said:

I should really learn how to Bitcoin. Looks confusing. 

 

[Cosmic 178]

On 5/26/2017 at 11:19 AM, tryandstopme said:

Out of curiosity why do you think betting against the economy is a safe bet? I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I'm interested to hear why you think that is the case.

 

PS- I was thinking further on that response that I wrote. Another (favorable) scenario for BitCoin, that is less "radical" than my skeptical and distrustful thinking on the established institutions is this:

If the Winklevoss brothers get their ETF, and the guys who make the investment retirement portfolios (or whatever you call them- 401Ks, Roth IRAs) for Americans who do not want to be bothered to select their assets in their portfolio, then I would imagine that the portfolio managers may throw some Bitcoins into the folk whose retirement goal is 5-20 years out. That drives the demand and price up of Bitcoin and gives it some traction amongst the mainstream. So yea, I do not really care one way or another if the system fails. I just abundance of wealth to be requirement for living on this planet, and see more scenarios where Bitcoin facilitates this. Again, this is not financial advice, just speculation, from a speculative, impulsive guy who does not want to give advice (and just appreciates hearing himself think, through this medium which is our Forum). 

[Cosmic 178]

9 hours ago, Jamarquan said:

I should really learn how to Bitcoin. Looks confusing. 

I like Tone Vays, who claims (or someone else claims about him) to be a former VP at JP Morgan:

 

I like Francis Hunt too:

I learned how Bitcoin worked from a guy in my office. Then, I backtracked and took a crash course essentially from these two guys, on how markets work. I've had hundreds of people try to explain markets to me previously, but their voices, their drones, ugh- they always just bored me to tears so I could never wrap my mind around the concepts. For whatever reason, Tone Vays and Francis Hunt, I find to be compelling- I think their voices, I just like. They are both traditional investors who are Bitcoin enthusiasts. 

[Cosmic 178]

And as I write this Bitcoin is all over the map lol

[IPv6Freely 2093]

I put $210 into BTC over the course of the last few months. Now worth $485. That’s some investment!

 

[IPv6Freely 2093]

Just dumped $2000 into it during its big dip late last week. It's already recovered and then some so things are looking good :)

[jlt73 160]

I have started tracking it.  I'm getting ready to dip my toes in and see what happens

[IPv6Freely 2093]

2 hours ago, jlt73 said:

I have started tracking it.  I'm getting ready to dip my toes in and see what happens

I use coinbase if that helps you. 

[jlt73 160]

30 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

I use coinbase if that helps you. 

That’s what I am using to track it.  Seems super easy to use.  Although I’m a little unclear on how selling works. 

[IPv6Freely 2093]

1 hour ago, jlt73 said:

That’s what I am using to track it.  Seems super easy to use.  Although I’m a little unclear on how selling works. 

In what way? It’s just like stocks. 

[jlt73 160]

On 11/18/2017 at 4:24 PM, IPv6Freely said:

In what way? It’s just like stocks. 

I've never really dabbled in stocks besides my 401K.  So its really just a learning process.

[IPv6Freely 2093]

2 hours ago, jlt73 said:

I've never really dabbled in stocks besides my 401K.  So its really just a learning process.

At this point it’s pretty simple. Buy some and watch it grow :) 

[jlt73 160]

20 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

At this point it’s pretty simple. Buy some and watch it grow :) 

And now I'm in the game!  

[IPv6Freely 2093]

2 hours ago, jlt73 said:

And now I'm in the game!  

Nice! Congrats :)

[IPv6Freely 2093]

On 11/21/2017 at 4:24 AM, jlt73 said:

And now I'm in the game!  

Hope you’re enjoying this ;)

[jlt73 160]

6 hours ago, IPv6Freely said:

Hope you’re enjoying this ;)

Yeah!  holy crap I can't believe this. I bought when it was 7995.