Flare Skate Blade - Anyone seen this or used it? WIder than typical steel

[Tyler55 10]

7 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Tyler,

 

I have had 2 players come in with these. One Pro (NHL player) and one Minor Midget player. Both did not fit well on the new Blademaster holder as the blade was to close to the holder was not tall enough for the curves at the front and back of the holder. When I did get in a position that would sharpen consistently the steel itself was a pleasure to sharpen. As a sharpener I think there is some design work to be done to make it work better on the holders. Also no level I have goes on these to be able to make sure its a consistant level. (I have them all)

 

As for the 2 players the PRO player didn't like them at all. Although he admitted the profile felt way off even though the guy ( who he got them from) tried to adopt his profile to them from his old blades. 

The younger player really liked them but couldn't explain what it was he liked, The dad just spoke to whats on the website. These were the ones I spent the most time with. With no level it took a little longer to make sure they were as straight as could be.

Adjustments to sharpening I think would make it easier to push to players in retail. 

Another ting was the weight seemed to be a little heavier?? 

 

My 2 cents

 

 

 

 

We are currently finishing up a Flare Square that can be used to check edges. We partnered up with Blackstone to make it. All Flare Dealers will have one and they will be available to purchase for any shop that will be sharpening Flare Blades. The Blademaster BR1000 will work with the Flare Blade as well. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 9/12/2017 at 5:08 PM, Tyler55 said:

It is the same as whatever format you use. Example - Bauer LS2 is a 9', so our Flare Blade that fits an LS2 is the same. Flare for Graf would be 11'. We just copy the profile but you can always change it to whatever you like. 

I'm sorry, but this doesn't make sense. If I have a LS Edge holder it can accept LS 2/3/4 steel. LS 2 steel has an entirely different profile than LS 3/4.

By default, you have to have some standard I imagine. 

 

 

[JR Boucicaut 3793]

He is meaning that they have a LS2 and LS4 profile version, so two Flare blade versions that fit Bauer holders.

I'm sure they have one that fits CCM skates which follows the stock CCM profile, and one for Graf.

[JR Boucicaut 3793]

14 hours ago, Tyler55 said:

The Blademaster BR1000 will work with the Flare Blade as well. 

Love that thing.

[VegasHockey 1280]

10 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

He is meaning that they have a LS2 and LS4 profile version, so two Flare blade versions that fit Bauer holders.

I'm sure they have one that fits CCM skates which follows the stock CCM profile, and one for Graf.

I may just pick these up to do a video review. I recently reviewed Step, all versions, for the CCM SB 4.0 on a JetSpeed FT1. It wild be interesting to see how these compare. Are they are tall as factory or taller like Step? I like the added height so I hope they are tall. 

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

On 9/8/2017 at 6:48 PM, Tyler55 said:

You clamp the steel into the sharpening holder above the Flare so there is no special holder or adjustment needed. The steel above the Flare is the same thickness as the stock steel. So if your holder is set up for sharpening LS4 steel, you just clamp in a Flare and no adjustment of the clickers needed. Just dress the stone to whatever hollow you want to use.

The performance advantage doesn't come from the width at the bottom of the blade. The blade was designed to prevent guys from blowing edges when turning. I have watched WHL and NHL players try to blow an edge on these and they are laughing because they can't. The width is just the result of the angles. It comes from the 6 degree angle that the edges are on. The one thing that was discovered when the University of Calgary studied the blade design is that because the edges are not pointing straight down into the ice when gliding, you have over 20% faster glide. Since at least 1 or both blades are gliding when skating, this allows you to carry more speed. 

All information can be found at FlareSkateBlade.com or feel free to ask me. 

Tyler I still feel it doesnt fit int he holder as best as it could. I find it not very forgiving. 

[Skate Mod 4]

The biggest problem we have in our industry is the speed skating industry is our little brother that always wants to join our club. Speed skating industry is tiny in comparison to hockey as far as inventing a product and making enough money on it. So every year there is always a newer invention that is pushed on the hockey industry in trying to make a go of it where the focus is always on speed more speed more glide and more speed.

Hockey is not about speed it never was and never will be, because we have a limited box size, speed kills in our industry, that’s why very few super fast guys have long and prosperous careers in NHL.

Hockey is about agility, agility equals – longevity, we have sudden directional changes, that creates an inconsistent playing field, so any product that is aimed at increasing only one aspect of the game at the expense of the other would not be consistent enough over a long period of time. That is why speed skating industry and its inventions never worked in our industry.

If we look at the tests they did, no one skates like that in real life in a straight line with perfect angles, all these “Fixture” tests are always in one direction so no turning, stopping or any agility testing is done at different angles, it would be impossible to create such a precise test. So this loophole is always explored, if we can’t disproof it that means it’s good for us.

NHL and it’s EQM can afford to invest in custom sharpening equipment if they saw a significant advantage to this technology, in fact they don’t need to invest, they can afford to discard each blade after each period and never resort to any sharpening at all.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

1 hour ago, Skate Mod said:

So every year there is always a newer invention that is pushed on the hockey industry in trying to make a go of it where the focus is always on speed more speed more glide and more speed.

That is why speed skating industry and its inventions never worked in our industry.

To be fair, the speed skating industry gave us the MLX/Mako and the VH/True so it’s certainly far from a sure thing that speed skating tech will fail in the hockey world.

[Skate Mod 4]

Last time I checked Kor, MLX, Mako are buried, I think there is a free spot reserved for VH in the same cemetery. Innovation and new fresh ideas is always a good thing, hockey is too advanced of an industry for hobby type approach.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

6 hours ago, Skate Mod said:

Last time I checked Kor, MLX, Mako are buried, I think there is a free spot reserved for VH in the same cemetery. Innovation and new fresh ideas is always a good thing, hockey is too advanced of an industry for hobby type approach.

MLX became Mako, and Now Easton doesn’t exist. Had nothing to do with the skate.

True/VH isn’t going anywhere anytime soon unless something major changes. 

[flip12 712]

8 hours ago, Skate Mod said:

Last time I checked Kor, MLX, Mako are buried, I think there is a free spot reserved for VH in the same cemetery. Innovation and new fresh ideas is always a good thing, hockey is too advanced of an industry for hobby type approach.

"Hobby type approach," what do you mean exactly?

[Zac911 317]

 

[Skate Mod 4]

11 hours ago, flip12 said:

"Hobby type approach," what do you mean exactly?

R&D or in their case lack of R&D

[flip12 712]

1 hour ago, Skate Mod said:

R&D or in their case lack of R&D

Both Flare and Scott Van Horne's work are based in university research. I'm trying to follow your logic, but I'm missing the connection.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Let’s go ahead and get this back on track, folks. If you want to make ignorant comments about VH, do it in the VH thread. Thanks. 

[flip12 712]

5 minutes ago, IPv6Freely said:

Let’s go ahead and get this back on track, folks. If you want to make ignorant comments about VH, do it in the VH thread. Thanks. 

It should probably be a new thread: @Skate Mod's thesis is broader than just VH, Flare, etc.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

On 9/24/2017 at 5:30 PM, Skate Mod said:

Last time I checked Kor, MLX, Mako are buried, I think there is a free spot reserved for VH in the same cemetery. Innovation and new fresh ideas is always a good thing, hockey is too advanced of an industry for hobby type approach.

So is that why 70% of the NHL goalies are in VH/True? And the number of players increases daily? Might want to think again on that one. As for the Flare blades here is my issue along with another company. You sell your product online so it makes it a little harder for us Brick Types to Stock all that extra steel. If I was to say make an order for the shop is the profit there if I don't sell it? No I am stuck with it unless you have a return policy for unsold items? Just so many blades out there these days you cant stock everything.

[Skate Mod 4]

2 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

So is that why 70% of the NHL goalies are in VH/True? And the number of players increases daily? Might want to think again on that one. As for the Flare blades here is my issue along with another company. You sell your product online so it makes it a little harder for us Brick Types to Stock all that extra steel. If I was to say make an order for the shop is the profit there if I don't sell it? No I am stuck with it unless you have a return policy for unsold items? Just so many blades out there these days you cant stock everything.

Goalies do not skate, they need more anatomical boot then players because of different bio-mechanics. The number of players that try the skate does increase key word here is "Try"  NHL players can afford to try anything, give them one or two years skating 5 days per week on rigid carbon fiber and then come back we'll see how many still skate without complications.

NHL ice is softer then most rinks, take that into consideration when the biggest target market for hockey is 12-16 year old that don't skate on soft ice nor weigh 200+ lb.

If you can prove to me from an engineering point of view how is True skate different from Kor, MLX, Mako and what makes it more unique or better then I'll listen.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Again, back on topic please.

[kyleo29 58]

On 9/24/2017 at 4:30 PM, Skate Mod said:

Last time I checked Kor, MLX, Mako are buried, I think there is a free spot reserved for VH in the same cemetery. Innovation and new fresh ideas is always a good thing, hockey is too advanced of an industry for hobby type approach.

Have you tried the flare blade? Or mako and vh? If you don’t like these products and see them as a gimmick then don’t buy them. If other people like them, who cares. 

Edited September 26, 2017 by kyleo29

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

8 hours ago, Skate Mod said:

Goalies do not skate, they need more anatomical boot then players because of different bio-mechanics. The number of players that try the skate does increase key word here is "Try"  NHL players can afford to try anything, give them one or two years skating 5 days per week on rigid carbon fiber and then come back we'll see how many still skate without complications.

NHL ice is softer then most rinks, take that into consideration when the biggest target market for hockey is 12-16 year old that don't skate on soft ice nor weigh 200+ lb.

If you can prove to me from an engineering point of view how is True skate different from Kor, MLX, Mako and what makes it more unique or better then I'll listen.

Well I got a phone call today from one of those so called guys "Trying them out." Gemel Smith from the Dallas Stars. His comment was "man these skates changed my game. Im the only 2 way guy left up. And I have been told Im staying as of right now." No he is not a big league guy but for a guy thats a fringe player to say they dramatically improved my movement on the ice? I could actually go on and on with many of the guys I have worked with. As for them with Flare blades if Flare made the adjustments I would want to see as a sharpener I would give them a serious try. You always have to give things like this a try and now that I am closing in on 500  pairs of VH skates sold I would say my success rate is pretty darn good. Even more so that most of my clients 85 % are 10 to 18! And most of those are some of the top players on their teams. And only 9 Hall of Famers but Im working on that.

 

Also pretty sure Mitch Marner and Tyler Bozack are pretty decent players and they seem to like them! I will leave the Goalies don't skate comment to the goalies to respond to! LOL

Edited September 27, 2017 by oldtrainerguy28

[flip12 712]

16 hours ago, oldtrainerguy28 said:

Well I got a phone call today from one of those so called guys "Trying them out." Gemel Smith from the Dallas Stars. His comment was "man these skates changed my game. Im the only 2 way guy left up. And I have been told Im staying as of right now." No he is not a big league guy but for a guy thats a fringe player to say they dramatically improved my movement on the ice? I could actually go on and on with many of the guys I have worked with. As for them with Flare blades if Flare made the adjustments I would want to see as a sharpener I would give them a serious try. You always have to give things like this a try and now that I am closing in on 500  pairs of VH skates sold I would say my success rate is pretty darn good. Even more so that most of my clients 85 % are 10 to 18! And most of those are some of the top players on their teams. And only 9 Hall of Famers but Im working on that.

 

Also pretty sure Mitch Marner and Tyler Bozack are pretty decent players and they seem to like them! I will leave the Goalies don't skate comment to the goalies to respond to! LOL

Also, from browsing KHL photos, VH was already really catching on there and True seems at least to be continuing that trend if not improving on it.

[IPv6Freely 2092]

Guys, once again... let's keep this on-topic. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

We just started to carry these in bulk and I have to admit they are on to something. We are working to make a jig so that you can sharpen these steel in or out of a skate holder on any ProSharp AS machine. We tested sharpening on Sparx as it actually works fine. As noted, most regular skate sharpeners, the (big boys), work just fine. They also released an edge checker which it looks like they had Blackstone manufacturer and it works excellent. I tried them for the first time myself and was very impressed but they still need to be profiled slightly.  I moved from a 3/4" ROH with ZC to a 1.5" ROH with ZC and the only complaint I have is the heel is too rounded. 

 

[JR Boucicaut 3793]

What's the issue on the Prosharp?

I have a set of Flares that I haven't sharpened yet because I don't have a spinner shallow enough at the moment.