ProSharp Q & A

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

21 minutes ago, Wolfpack_1986 said:

I think I have the same question. I wouldn't know where to start. 

Hopefully soon we can help out with that.

[pisani34 10]

21 hours ago, Wolfpack_1986 said:

I think I have the same question. I wouldn't know where to start. 

count me in to see the answer as well.  Noticed last time i was in my local pro hockey life they've got a new Prosharp AS2001 sitting in the shop.  I've never ever had any of my skates profiled before, just whatever is out of the box and sharpened, usually at 5/8" or now i'm on X7.  Skates for the foreseeable future are super tacks with the stock SB4.0 and SB Black, definitely interested to know what and how profile could help my game for sure!

[Shayne Toporowski 14]

this might help

 

https://issuu.com/elinmalmsten/docs/script-tryckfilus_64e6b4f0ed3b15

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

8 hours ago, Shayne Toporowski said:

this might help

 

https://issuu.com/elinmalmsten/docs/script-tryckfilus_64e6b4f0ed3b15

Thanks Shayne.  I think I'm still in the same boat on what I should start with. 

Im a small defenseman that relies on speed, and will often use that to lead the rush, pass it off below the net, and get back to the blue line once it's in the zone. I'm seeking gains in stability first and acceleration second. My holder size is.... 238.  That's the part that makes me nervous, since the more interesting profiles like the quads stop at 254. 

Edited March 22, 2018 by Wolfpack_1986

[mojo122 535]

Read through the profiling document, so thanks for that.  Looks like it need's to be updated since there are newer templates offered that aren't mentioned there?  For someone new to profiling, is it better to go from a stock radius to a double first, and then progress to a triple or quad?  Or is it an easy transition to go straight from stock to a quad?

Some of the recommendations are based on the player's position and skating ability, but especially when it comes to parents and their kids they often either understate or overstate their child's skating proficiency.  So profiling may help or hinder some skaters.  

[VegasHockey 1280]

7 hours ago, mojo122 said:

Read through the profiling document, so thanks for that.  Looks like it need's to be updated since there are newer templates offered that aren't mentioned there?  For someone new to profiling, is it better to go from a stock radius to a double first, and then progress to a triple or quad?  Or is it an easy transition to go straight from stock to a quad?

Some of the recommendations are based on the player's position and skating ability, but especially when it comes to parents and their kids they often either understate or overstate their child's skating proficiency.  So profiling may help or hinder some skaters.  

There are a few articles I have written on such:

Hockey Skate Blade Hollows

Hockey Skate Blade Profiling

Hockey Skate Blade Mounting

Deep Dive into Hockey Skate Profiling

The first thing to determine is what is the current profile/radius you are skating on. Then we take a look at what is currently not working for you or what you would like to enhance. For example, are you looking for more stability and top end speed or are you looking for greater agility? A single or combo radius usually requires a slight compromise since the front half is one profile while the other half is another. While this might be better for some than a single profile it's more limited than doing a quad combination profile. 

Do, first questions I would ask. What size skate do you wear? What size is the steel? What are you looking to change and why? Do you feel too far forward? Too much on your heels? Do you lack top end speed and endurance? Do you feel too flat footed and not agile? 

Let's start here first.  

[VegasHockey 1280]

20 hours ago, Wolfpack_1986 said:

Thanks Shayne.  I think I'm still in the same boat on what I should start with. 

Im a small defenseman that relies on speed, and will often use that to lead the rush, pass it off below the net, and get back to the blue line once it's in the zone. I'm seeking gains in stability first and acceleration second. My holder size is.... 238.  That's the part that makes me nervous, since the more interesting profiles like the quads stop at 254. 

Your steel size makes it very complicated for triple or quad combination profiles. What is your current profile you are using now? 

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 3/19/2018 at 12:23 PM, pisani34 said:

count me in to see the answer as well.  Noticed last time i was in my local pro hockey life they've got a new Prosharp AS2001 sitting in the shop.  I've never ever had any of my skates profiled before, just whatever is out of the box and sharpened, usually at 5/8" or now i'm on X7.  Skates for the foreseeable future are super tacks with the stock SB4.0 and SB Black, definitely interested to know what and how profile could help my game for sure!

First thing, change the steel. Once you profile that factory stock ccm steel there will be very little life left. I would highly recommend ordering Tydan or Step and getting that steel profiled. The factory profile is a 10' roughly but as you sharpen and assuming you are getting them sharpened by hand and not on the PS machine you will likely have a 9' profile. What size steel and size skate do you have?

[pisani34 10]

34 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

First thing, change the steel. Once you profile that factory stock ccm steel there will be very little life left. I would highly recommend ordering Tydan or Step and getting that steel profiled. The factory profile is a 10' roughly but as you sharpen and assuming you are getting them sharpened by hand and not on the PS machine you will likely have a 9' profile. What size steel and size skate do you have?

 

I decided to do a little more digging on this whole subject and concluded that i did not want Pro hockey life handling my profiling and further sharpenings from here on out.  I've had decent consistency with them, but it hasn't always been perfect as you would expect with a big box store and high staff turnover.  I chatted with the pro shop guy there and he basically confirmed with me that most people at the store couldn't/shouldn't be trusted to do a pro job, and that they definitely are not always consistent.  With that being said i would be ok with them operating the prosharp machine, but not handling future sharpening jobs on it.  i agreed with all of this as i was convincing myself that a profile & sharpening are things that i want to be handled by 1 person, the same person i can go back to, and have the ability to discuss and talk with about any issues.  I was sick of the inconsistencies of my sharpenings and it was time to put an end to having to think about my skates & steel while on the ice when i should be focusing on the game.

 

I called around as there is no shortage of specialty shops here, and decided to chat with a guy from bladz pro shop here.  The owner/operator is out of a small shop in a nearby arena, and its basically all he does, skates and more skates.  He told me in full disclosure that he wouldn't profile my skates unless i was committed to going to him, or someone else competent to handle future sharpenings, as any big box guy he guaranteed would undo all of it (especially convincing that i talked to my usual big retailer first too).  We went over all the things that we should, weight, current abilities, what i wanted out of my skates, what i struggled with, etc, and i let him make the informed decision as to what profile he would want to start me on.   It does kinda suck that you mention profiling the stock still will leave me very little, but he didn't seem concerned about that and also i've only had them sharpened twice so far.  I'm in 7.5 super tacks, so a 263 holder.  He does not have a pro sharp machine and i'll report back later with the actual starting point he's got me at and see how it differs with what i've been on all my life.

Edited March 22, 2018 by pisani34

[VegasHockey 1280]

10 minutes ago, pisani34 said:

 

I decided to do a little more digging on this whole subject and concluded that i did not want Pro hockey life handling my profiling and further sharpenings from here on out.  I've had decent consistency with them, but it hasn't always been perfect as you would expect with a big box store and high staff turnover.  I chatted with the pro shop guy there and he basically confirmed with me that most people at the store couldn't/shouldn't be trusted to do a pro job, and that they definitely are not always consistent.  With that being said i would be ok with them operating the prosharp machine, but not handling future sharpening jobs on it.  i agreed with all of this as i was convincing myself that a profile & sharpening are things that i want to be handled by 1 person, the same person i can go back to, and have the ability to discuss and talk with about any issues.  I was sick of the inconsistencies of my sharpenings and it was time to put an end to having to think about my skates & steel while on the ice when i should be focusing on the game.

 

I called around as there is no shortage of specialty shops here, and decided to chat with a guy from bladz pro shop here.  The owner/operator is out of a small shop in a nearby arena, and its basically all he does, skates and more skates.  He told me in full disclosure that he wouldn't profile my skates unless i was committed to going to him, or someone else competent to handle future sharpenings, as any big box guy he guaranteed would undo all of it (especially convincing that i talked to my usual big retailer first too).  We went over all the things that we should, weight, current abilities, what i wanted out of my skates, what i struggled with, etc, and i let him make the informed decision as to what profile he would want to start me on.   It does kinda suck that you mention profiling the stock still will leave me very little, but he didn't seem concerned about that and also i've only had them sharpened twice so far.  I'm in 7.5 super tacks, so a 263 holder.  He does not have a pro sharp machine and i'll report back later with the actual starting point he's got me at and see how it differs with what i've been on all my life.

I can tell you that after profiling and blending the toe and heel you will lose at least 20% or more of the current steel with a profile. This is when using a ProSharp unit and can be more or less when doing it by hand with a template. Typically more. 

So what was his verdict on what he wanted to profile for you? 

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

48 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

First thing, change the steel. Once you profile that factory stock ccm steel there will be very little life left. 

...if you overgrind it.

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 minute ago, JR Boucicaut said:

...if you overgrind it.

Even if you dont, the factory CCM steel is quite short compared to Step or even LS3/LS3. Once you profile it, bled the toe and heel, and then sharpen the skates there is a substantial amount of steel lost. 

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

So is LS2.  And Tuuk C+.  But those sets have been profiled for years, if not decades.

Sometimes people don't want tall steel.  Dealing with a new profile is enough, now throwing in another variable (the height) makes things harder.   The more you can control, the better off you'd be.  

It's an issue that plagues the profiler - the pressure of trying to get it right the first time.  You have to be patient with the process.

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 minute ago, JR Boucicaut said:

So is LS2.  And Tuuk C+.  But those sets have been profiled for years, if not decades.

Sometimes people don't want tall steel.  Dealing with a new profile is enough, now throwing in another variable (the height) makes things harder.   The more you can control, the better off you'd be.  

It's an issue that plagues the profiler - the pressure of trying to get it right the first time.  You have to be patient with the process.

Not disagreeing but in personal experience profiling hundreds of skates its very unlikely to "hit the nail on the head" the very first try. I myself have probably used every single ProSharp profile on the market. Mostly because I wanted to tinker but also because I wanted to see first hand how each profile felt. It's one thing to have an understanding of the profile but entirely different actually using it and skating on it. 

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

15 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Not disagreeing but in personal experience profiling hundreds of skates its very unlikely to "hit the nail on the head" the very first try.

That's what I'm saying - less experienced/less qualified ones will try to do that.  Those are the shops who aren't willing to work with the skater, or do the "recommended" profile and have 95% of people in the same profile. Seen a lot of that in my 20 years. 

[sharkshockey20 0]

 

Does anyone in the U.S. offer ProSharp profiling by mail?

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

Just now, sharkshockey20 said:

 

Does anyone in the U.S. offer ProSharp profiling by mail?

 

On 3/18/2018 at 6:23 PM, JR Boucicaut said:

Hopefully soon we can help out with that.

 

[VegasHockey 1280]

5 hours ago, sharkshockey20 said:

 

Does anyone in the U.S. offer ProSharp profiling by mail?

Yes, SkateWorks in Seattle WA does. 

 

http://skateworksproshop.com/

Edited March 27, 2018 by Nicholas G

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

5 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

 

 

 that would be killer!

 

[Shayne Toporowski 14]

Lots of questions, Sorry trade show season.

 

We typically do testing with hundreds of players. We have a testing Bag.

Test blades and skates we use all edge LS3 5/8ths ROH after profile

Profiles to Try

Quad 1 4th place

Quad 2 Second place

Quad Zero - Most popular 

Zuperior S or M depending on size of runner 3rd place

9' or we think it is, right out of package this is the last test. Never once has a player picked this.

Transition and getting used to is immediate....you just feel more confident and secure on the ice, with upgraded benefits. of Agility, Mobility, Speed and stability.

 

People ask about nailing it the first time...for $30-40 it is a very cheap solution to becoming a better skater and the most important skill, besides hockey sense. Parents spend 200-300 on a hockey stick to find the right curve and flex, spend $30-40.and your player will be better off. even if they need to try 2 -3 different profiles.

[VegasHockey 1280]

I have seen the following

1: Quad .5

2: Quad 2

3: Quad 0

4: Quad 1

5: 12'

6: 13'

7: No one that has gotten a Zuperior liked it or never gave themselves a chance to adjust. 

[mojo122 535]

Shayne,

Can you describe what the differences are besides channel size between the S, M, and L Z Channels?  What is the benefit of one channel over the other and whether there are specific recommendations  as to which channel size to select?

[puckpilot 312]

 

On 3/21/2018 at 5:27 PM, Wolfpack_1986 said:

Thanks Shayne.  I think I'm still in the same boat on what I should start with. 

Im a small defenseman that relies on speed, and will often use that to lead the rush, pass it off below the net, and get back to the blue line once it's in the zone. I'm seeking gains in stability first and acceleration second. My holder size is.... 238.  That's the part that makes me nervous, since the more interesting profiles like the quads stop at 254. 

 

I'm in the same sized steel as you, and for the first time in 30 plus years of my hockey life, I got my skates profiled. I'm on size 4.5 N9000s, and I was running stock LS3 on stock profile, with a 3/8ths hollow. I followed Nicholas G's recommendation of a 12' single radius to start with. He also recommended a neutral pitch, but I went with a +1 and 5/8ths hollow. I specifically bought new LS3 steel to experiment on, because I'm in the middle of playoffs right now and wanted to be able to turn back if I had to. 

One of my biggest issues was my underpush slipping out on me when I tried to drive into it. Always thought it was user error, but after a few minutes on my profiled steel, I knew I made the right decision. It felt like every aspect of my skating had levelled up. For 4.5 hours I was trying everything from stop-starts to tight turns to one-foot slaloms, but most of all, I was working the crossovers. It all seemed to be clicking. I was able to push things so hard on turns and stop-starts, one of my laces broke. After 4.5hrs, I still didn't want to leave the rink because I was so excited about trying stuff just to see if I could do it.

I'm usually a center but from time-to-time I fill in at defense. One of the things that I'd dread was the forward stop transitioning into the backward's crossover. It was always 50/50 whether the inside leg would slip out from under me. With the new profile, my leg wasn't slipping, and the only time I blew a tire was when I was trying to see how far I could push before it blew.

For me, I didn't notice any detriment to my agility or turns. I think it might be in part to me feeling steadier on crossovers and hard turns. Or maybe it's because of the small runners. I'm liking it so much, I'm considering going up to a 13' radius, and maybe in time, I'll consider something more complex.

Now, this isn't to say that I'm suddenly Connor McDavid. Not even close. I'm just saying that before, parts of my skating seemed to be stagnant. I wasn't making any progress no matter how much I practised or how much I studied technique. But making this adjustment feels like it pushed me free of that stagnation, and now, doors to being better are open.

Any way my 2 cents. It's worth what you paid for it.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2018 by puckpilot

[Shayne Toporowski 14]

@puckpilot nice to here and great feedback, Everything you have felt is what most people experience...now time for quad zero, it will feel better. Skating on blades out of the box is just very uncomfortable and insecure feeling.

[Shayne Toporowski 14]

@mojo122 the channel size vary, small .75mm, medium 1.0mm, large 1.25mm

Reduce hollow 20% for small channel ,25% for medium channel ,30% for large channel.

For instance using 5/8ths as a current ROH

Small Channel Z,  Now sharpen 3/4 add small channel ,this will give the same feeling as 5/8ths

Medium Channel Z , Now sharpen at 7/8ths add Medium channel ,this will give the same feeling as 5/8ths

Large Channel Z , Now sharpen at 1" add large channel, this will give the same feeling as 5/8ths