TRUE TF9/TF7 skates

[pgeorgan 77]

On 3/14/2022 at 12:18 PM, Doodles said:

At some point the logical conclusion has to be drawn that these might not be the right skates for people who want to re-engineer the entire skate to match the feel of a previous owned skate. Easy enough to go back to what they had before and it's not that difficult to find second hand skates that have been hardly used, if you have the patience to search for them.

I'm sure a lot of people are going to attack me for this, but when I read about Trues, I can't help but think of the Steve Jobs "you're holding it wrong" meme. 

That being said, I am putting my money where my mouth is and did order a pair.

Edited January 2, 2023 by pgeorgan

[RodneyPierce 11]

27 minutes ago, pgeorgan said:

I'm sure a lot of people are going to attack me for this, but when I read about Trues, I can't help but think of the Steve Jobs "you're holding it wrong" meme. 

That being said, I am putting my money where my mouth is and did order a pair.

Haha, that's funny 🤣.  I do think you will like them!  And if not, it sounds like you have a Bauer that works well for you anyways.

I do recommend doing them exactly as directed with the stretch wrap after baking.  I think you will be impressed with the fit you get (likely have a hell of a time getting them off if I'm going to be honest 😁)

 

[pgeorgan 77]

11 minutes ago, RodneyPierce said:

Haha, that's funny 🤣.  I do think you will like them!  And if not, it sounds like you have a Bauer that works well for you anyways.

I do recommend doing them exactly as directed with the stretch wrap after baking.  I think you will be impressed with the fit you get (likely have a hell of a time getting them off if I'm going to be honest 😁)

 

Let's hope. 

However, I am leaning towards they'll end up too roomy in the mid foot to toe box region. I'm not really one to use power wedges or whatever insert in the toe, so we'll see. 

I counted 1 or 2 people on here that went to these from a Vapor 1x and their status is unclear to me on whether the skates are a keeper or not. The forum is hard to parse through in its entirety. 

Yes, the Machs are nice, but I'm greedy and think I could do better. 

Edited January 2, 2023 by pgeorgan

[Sniper9 530]

10 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

Rubbish.

Not sure why this is necessarily a bad thing. If Bauer have a winning retail formula, is that a negative checkmark against them? Their skates fit me fantastic. Contrary to what you claim, it is night and day after the 175x3min bake. Could they be better? Sure. There's always room for improvement, whether that's with Bauer, CCM or True. 

Which brings me to my next point. I tried Jetspeeds and Ribcors and I have to say, if they are more thermoformable, it was undetectable on my end. IMHO, I think it's a myth that might have something to do with their baking instructions being a healthy 45 degrees higher coming in at 220x2min per their package insert. And now that I'm thinking about it, maybe that had something to do with why my Ribcor cracked from a shot during the 90-day trial. Who knows. 

Reading up on True, it looks like 195 degree for 10 minutes. That's like cooking a chicken. 

At any rate, I'll be getting mine in a few days and will def. report back. Still unsure on the sizing, whether its half or full. Also not going to be thrilled about the smaller holder. Can't fault them though, nobody is perfect. 

Bauer not being as thermoformable isn't a bad thing but I was just stating which skates are most moldable in order. As for Bauer's always fitting you fantastic, you just said the last skates that fit you good we're the Bauer 1xs and that the new fit system pretty much messed it up for you. 

Ccm is more moldable. Take ccm and Bauer out of the oven and you'll see ccms quarter gets much softer and pliable. Regardless of whether you think this is a good thing or not doesn't matter it proves my point that it's more moldable. 

Trues baking instructions is what it is. All three brands use diff materials that react differently to heat. The reason I like ccm and true is bc both can conform to irregularities a lot better than Bauer. Very rarely will you even need to use a traditional boot punch for true and ccm as you can use the tissue technique or even ur thumb to press the pressure point out. 

[Sniper9 530]

9 hours ago, stick9 said:

The 'bauers aren't as moldable as brand X' stance isn't entirely accurate. Ive seen some pretty wild punches on Bauer's. I've personally had Bauer's clamped and hand shaped to my feet. It took a bit more effort but it's definitely doable. 

You'd think if True and CCM had a distinct advantage in terms fit they'd have a bigger share of the pro player market. 

Pro player market is a diff beast as pro players get options that even the retail custom consumer won't ever get. 

[Sniper9 530]

5 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

Let's hope. 

However, I am leaning towards they'll end up too roomy in the mid foot to toe box region. I'm not really one to use power wedges or whatever insert in the toe, so we'll see. 

I counted 1 or 2 people on here that went to these from a Vapor 1x and their status is unclear to me on whether the skates are a keeper or not. The forum is hard to parse through in its entirety. 

Yes, the Machs are nice, but I'm greedy and think I could do better. 

The machs are very comfy. Prob one of the most comfy retail skates made in the last few years imo. U should try them on or at least the m5 pro. 

I know you're probably against it but you can easily wrap the forefoot area of trues to reduce volume in that area as well. 

[pgeorgan 77]

8 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

The machs are very comfy. Prob one of the most comfy retail skates made in the last few years imo. U should try them on or at least the m5 pro. 

I know you're probably against it but you can easily wrap the forefoot area of trues to reduce volume in that area as well. 

I'm using Machs now... they're a great skate. Only complaint is I don't need as much room in the toe box and they have a little more depth than I'd prefer, making them someone tricky to tighten right. 

I'm actually a barefoot skater and they work out nicely. I wonder how the velcro tongue will be on the TF9's. Some reviewers said it was digging into their toes, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say they skate in socks. 

[Sniper9 530]

11 minutes ago, pgeorgan said:

I'm using Machs now... they're a great skate. Only complaint is I don't need as much room in the toe box and they have a little more depth than I'd prefer, making them someone tricky to tighten right. 

I'm actually a barefoot skater and they work out nicely. I wonder how the velcro tongue will be on the TF9's. Some reviewers said it was digging into their toes, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say they skate in socks. 

I never had issues with the Velcro digging in. The Velcro is on top of tht tongue but there is an excess piece that goes into the toecap. I guess I never noticed bc I slide my tongue down a bit so it reduces the toebox volume. 

As for the machs being a bit too wide I'm assuming you're already in a fit 1? Bauer increased the width of the toebox in the mach and m5 pro in fit 1 and 2. Did you try the ultrasonics because those skates are noticeably tighter in the toecap and forefoot. The fit 2 in 3s pros where very narrow for me in the forefoot and for tht machs I was able to fit in a fit 1 with the only issue I noticed on my pinky toe during turns. Ultimately I think I should've gotten a fit 2 but I returned the machs altogether. 

[pgeorgan 77]

9 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

As for the machs being a bit too wide I'm assuming you're already in a fit 1? Bauer increased the width of the toebox in the mach and m5 pro in fit 1 and 2. Did you try the ultrasonics because those skates are noticeably tighter in the toecap and forefoot. The fit 2 in 3s pros where very narrow for me in the forefoot and for tht machs I was able to fit in a fit 1 with the only issue I noticed on my pinky toe during turns. Ultimately I think I should've gotten a fit 2 but I returned the machs altogether. 

The toe box is too tall. The width is fine. I prefer the flatness of the current Vapor toe box. This is one thing I missed when I was doing the CCM trial.

There is bit of stitching where the toe box meets the boot, but it only rubs my pinky toe if I over tighten. 

Do custom Trues have a bespoke toe box? That would be pretty amazing, though I'm doubtful. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by pgeorgan

[Sniper9 530]

1 hour ago, pgeorgan said:

The toe box is too tall. The width is fine. I prefer the flatness of the current Vapor toe box. This is one thing I missed when I was doing the CCM trial.

There is bit of stitching where the toe box meets the boot, but it only rubs my pinky toe if I over tighten. 

Do custom Trues have a bespoke toe box? That would be pretty amazing, though I'm doubtful. 

The current machs toebox it too tall? It's shorter than all the other toeboxes Bauer has ever made. Hyperlites I think are shorter but everything pre hyperlite and ultrasonics, the Bauer toeboxes were big. 

True does not make a custom toe box for custom skates. However the new catalyst and svh customs have a lower profile toebox but look bigger than Bauer's asymmetrical toecap. 

Are you against using something like powefoot? It's a simple fix. I make my own form dollar store materials. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Sniper9

[pgeorgan 77]

13 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

The current machs toebox it too tall? It's shorter than all the other toeboxes Bauer has ever made. Hyperlites I think are shorter but everything pre hyperlite and ultrasonics, the Bauer toeboxes were big. 

True does not make a custom toe box for custom skates. However the new catalyst and svh customs have a lower profile toebox but look bigger than Bauer's asymmetrical toecap. 

Are you against using something like powefoot? It's a simple fix. I make my own form dollar store materials. 

They're all too tall, except for the modern Vapor iteration. It's not a deal breaker. They're still much smaller, historically. My biggest concern with the True's is it sounds like the toe box is massive.

Powerfoot didn't work for me. I couldn't move my toes at all and it was just a very strange feeling. It's not really a requirement I have anyway, but if something like the Vapor toe box is an option, I prefer it. 

[Sniper9 530]

29 minutes ago, pgeorgan said:

They're all too tall, except for the modern Vapor iteration. It's not a deal breaker. They're still much smaller, historically. My biggest concern with the True's is it sounds like the toe box is massive.

Powerfoot didn't work for me. I couldn't move my toes at all and it was just a very strange feeling. It's not really a requirement I have anyway, but if something like the Vapor toe box is an option, I prefer it. 

 Powerfeet is foam so you should be able to move your toes as the foam gives. Sounds like you want a very specific toe box height. Your best bet is to make ur own power foot so you can adjust the thickness of foam to the mm. Use Eva foam sheets that come in 1mm, 2mm etc thicknesses where u can pretty much customize it exactly. 

If the machs fit u perfect aside from a toebox that is a bit too tall, then I would just use ur machs and do the custom power foot diy. From what you're saying about toeboxes, you won't be happy at all with the trues. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Sniper9

[pgeorgan 77]

11 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

 Powerfeet is foam so you should be able to move your toes as the foam gives. Sounds like you want a very specific toe box height. Your best bet is to make ur own power foot so you can adjust the thickness of foam to the mm. Use Eva foam sheets that come in 1mm, 2mm etc thicknesses where u can pretty much customize it exactly. 

If the machs fit u perfect aside from a toebox that is a bit too tall, then I would just use ur machs and do the custom power foot diy. From what you're saying about toeboxes, you won't be happy at all with the trues. 

The Mach skate is fine for me. I'm just looking to see if there isn't something better. 

If the Trues are designed for people who desire large-ish toe boxes, then yes I will probably send them back. I said as much in a prior post.

Bauer and CCM both have sufficiently sized toe boxes that I don't require foam inserts to skate properly in. It sounds like True are bigger than both. 

In one of his videos, SVH said the skate last was designed from "tens of thousands of scans" and between regular and wide, would fit 85-90% of skaters. Given the thermoformability that everyone speaks of, I guess it was a huge oversight to create what sounds like a very spacious toe box.

I will know in a couple days when they are delivered. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by pgeorgan

[flip12 714]

3 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

The Mach skate is fine for me. I'm just looking to see if there isn't something better. 

If the Trues are designed for people who desire large-ish toe boxes, then yes I will probably send them back. I said as much in a prior post.

Bauer and CCM both have sufficiently sized toe boxes that I don't require foam inserts to skate properly in. It sounds like True are bigger than both. 

In one of his videos, SVH said the skate last was designed from "tens of thousands of scans" and between regular and wide, would fit 85-90% of skaters. Given the thermoformability that everyone speaks of, I guess it was a huge oversight to create what sounds like a very spacious toe box.

I will know in a couple days when they are delivered. 

My view on the tall toe box was they wanted the players to have the option of a roomy cap or repositioning the tongue down inside the cap to make it snug. Since they’ve gone to shallower toe caps in everything after TF, it seems the optional stuffing route didn’t work out the way they were planning.

[pgeorgan 77]

8 hours ago, flip12 said:

My view on the tall toe box was they wanted the players to have the option of a roomy cap or repositioning the tongue down inside the cap to make it snug. Since they’ve gone to shallower toe caps in everything after TF, it seems the optional stuffing route didn’t work out the way they were planning.

Well, if the stuffing route works(ish), I'm still willing to try them out. If it doesn't, then I guess that's the end of the journey. Doesn't sound like I'll even have to bake them to get my answer. 

How wide are we really talking here for the toe box? Clown feet wide? 

To be clear, my concern is in the width, not height. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by pgeorgan

[Sniper9 530]

13 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

The Mach skate is fine for me. I'm just looking to see if there isn't something better. 

If the Trues are designed for people who desire large-ish toe boxes, then yes I will probably send them back. I said as much in a prior post.

Bauer and CCM both have sufficiently sized toe boxes that I don't require foam inserts to skate properly in. It sounds like True are bigger than both. 

In one of his videos, SVH said the skate last was designed from "tens of thousands of scans" and between regular and wide, would fit 85-90% of skaters. Given the thermoformability that everyone speaks of, I guess it was a huge oversight to create what sounds like a very spacious toe box.

I will know in a couple days when they are delivered. 

The toe box is better made larger than too small especially of you can decrease the volume quite easily sliding the tongue lower or with Powerfeet so it's not really an issue for most people. You seem very particular which isn't a bad thing, but it also doesn't mean true should redesign their skate because of the small percentage of people like yourself. True did redesign their toebox since the tf9 but I've yet to try the catalyst skates on to see how it compares to my tf pro customs. To be their big toebox was more of a negative for esthetics than performance. I lowered the tongue slightly into the toebox and added some diy power foot with a couple mms of Eva foam and I have literally only 2mm above my toes of wiggle room. 

[Sniper9 530]

9 hours ago, flip12 said:

My view on the tall toe box was they wanted the players to have the option of a roomy cap or repositioning the tongue down inside the cap to make it snug. Since they’ve gone to shallower toe caps in everything after TF, it seems the optional stuffing route didn’t work out the way they were planning.

Have you tried the catalyst and the new toecaps?  From pictures and looking at the demo models they looks very similar in size to the tf line. 

[pgeorgan 77]

47 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

The toe box is better made larger than too small especially of you can decrease the volume quite easily sliding the tongue lower or with Powerfeet so it's not really an issue for most people. You seem very particular which isn't a bad thing, but it also doesn't mean true should redesign their skate because of the small percentage of people like yourself. True did redesign their toebox since the tf9 but I've yet to try the catalyst skates on to see how it compares to my tf pro customs. To be their big toebox was more of a negative for esthetics than performance. I lowered the tongue slightly into the toebox and added some diy power foot with a couple mms of Eva foam and I have literally only 2mm above my toes of wiggle room. 

The trend in skates is toward smaller toe boxes. CCM and Bauer have figured it out, and the new Catalyst is a de facto admission by True of the same. So, it seems that I'm probably in the majority.

Are True not the skates for "particular" people? We have a 50 page thread about using plastic wrap, clamps, foams and the like just to get a proper skate fit...

43 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

Have you tried the catalyst and the new toecaps?  From pictures and looking at the demo models they looks very similar in size to the tf line. 

The Catalyst and TF9 are for different strides. It seems that whatever the successor to the TF9 is will probably be right in my wheelhouse. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by pgeorgan

[flip12 714]

3 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

Well, if the stuffing route works(ish), I'm still willing to try them out. If it doesn't, then I guess that's the end of the journey. Doesn't sound like I'll even have to bake them to get my answer. 

How wide are we really talking here for the toe box? Clown feet wide? 

To be clear, my concern is in the width, not height. 

Ah. Gotcha. I was indeed focused on height, in the line of the Powerfoot solution.

 

8 minutes ago, pgeorgan said:

The trend in skates is toward smaller toe boxes. CCM and Bauer have figured it out, and the new Catalyst is a de facto admission by True of the same. So, it seems that I'm probably in the majority.

Are True not the skates for "particular" people? We have a 50 page thread about using plastic wrap, clamps, foams and the like just to get a proper skate fit...

That Catalyst and TF9 are for different strides. It seems that whatever the successor to the TF9 is will probably be right in my wheelhouse. 

The replacement for the TF looks like it has a sleeker toe cap. I’m not sure about toe cap width after the TF because I haven’t been able to try on Catalysts yet.

I vaguely remember the TF toe being pretty wide, but it’s been quite a while since I tried them on.

[pgeorgan 77]

1 minute ago, flip12 said:

Ah. Gotcha. I was indeed focused on height, in the line of the Powerfoot solution.

 

The replacement for the TF looks like it has a sleeker toe cap. I’m not sure about toe cap width after the TF because I haven’t been able to try on Catalysts yet.

I vaguely remember the TF toe being pretty wide, but it’s been quite a while since I tried them on.

Are there any pics out? Or are you referencing the Catalyst? 

[beedee 227]

I don't own TF's or Catalysts but can tell you from trying both on, back-to-back the TF was much more hotdog in a hallway feeling in the toe cap area compared to the Catalyst. I tried on the same size, and one half-size within the other for both as well. Catalyst felt like there was a liner bunched up in the end of the toe-cap, where the TFs didnt have anything.

[Sniper9 530]

4 hours ago, pgeorgan said:

The trend in skates is toward smaller toe boxes. CCM and Bauer have figured it out, and the new Catalyst is a de facto admission by True of the same. So, it seems that I'm probably in the majority.

Are True not the skates for "particular" people? We have a 50 page thread about using plastic wrap, clamps, foams and the like just to get a proper skate fit...

The Catalyst and TF9 are for different strides. It seems that whatever the successor to the TF9 is will probably be right in my wheelhouse. 

The trend towards smaller toecaps is a good thing. I like them too. I was referring to the specific dimensions that you want out of a toecap along with not liking the option or power foot inserts. 

The tf retails will be replaced by the hzrdus skate which will also have the "carv" toecap the catalyst has. The hzdus looks hideous imo. True dropped the ball on the design especially after a big improvement on the catalyst in the looks department 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Sniper9

[pgeorgan 77]

22 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

I was referring to the specific dimensions that you want out of a toecap along with not liking the option or power foot inserts. 

Not sure I mentioned an actual dimension. Just saying that anything in a modern CCM/Bauer is fine for me and that if the True's are materially more voluminous, it could be a problem. I guess I was under the impression that the entire skate was thermoformable, not just the aft 2/3rds.

I've watched the SVH videos and have seen the one-piece co-molded skate last. In theory you'd think they'd have been able to make the front 1/3 of the skate more narrow and allowed for it to be widened during the baking process. 

Am I misunderstanding? This seems more suited for someone with a Colorado Avalanche foot

Edited January 3, 2023 by pgeorgan

[flip12 714]

34 minutes ago, Sniper9 said:

The trend towards smaller toecaps is a good thing. I like them too. I was referring to the specific dimensions that you want out of a toecap along with not liking the option or power foot inserts. 

The tf retails will be replaced by the hzrdus skate which will also have the "carv" toecap the catalyst has. The hzdus looks hideous imo. True dropped the ball on the design especially after a big improvement on the catalyst in the looks department 

Even the Catalyst line got a lot of hate.

[pgeorgan 77]

2 minutes ago, flip12 said:

Even the Catalyst line got a lot of hate.

Catalyst Pro in all black is great. I don't care for the yellow.