Foot slipping forward in boot

[Spacecowboy 0]

I have been skating in a pair of Bauer Nexus Freeze Pro + 7D which is an SMU skate a couple notches below their top end.  I fitted into this skate because I had an issue with volume in just about every skate I tried.  Bauer scan recommended a Supreme 7EE but even with that recommendation, the sides of the skate would bulge out so that you could see the felt on the sides of the tongue when laced (pencil test fail).  My previous skates were 7W Graf 703, which definitely had the same problem.  tried a Vapor in 7EE which fit great except that I had the depth problem again.  I thought the new bauer Fit#3 would be the solution, but it seems like the Fit#3 is basically a nexus fit that looks like a vapor or a supreme.

Nexus seemed to solve the problem.  Seemed like a great fit.  Right length, right width, no pain, etc.  If I lace them up I cannot get my heel to move even a mm.  

About 1 period into a game, my foot slides slightly forward.  I am always finding myself kicking the heels back against the bench between shifts. I think I am fitting really good in the front end of the skate and the depth, but from about midfoot rearward it is a little too wide.  

With playing only 1 or 2 times a week year round and a senior, I really don't want to drop $1,000 on custom skates, but can't seem to find a skate that accomodates the depth without being too loose in the heel.

Any suggestions?

[trtaylor 3]

Put skate on the smaller foot and leave untied. Tap toe cap until your toes are touching the toe cap. Now check and see how much room there is between your heel and the back of the skate. You should be able to slide something the size of a Bic pen (but no larger) in that area. Any more room than that and your skates are too big.

If you don't have excess room in that area, then I wonder how you are tying your skates.

Put skate on the smaller foot and leave untied. Tap toe cap until your toes are touching the toe cap. Now check and see how much room there is between your heel and the back of the skate. You should be able to slide something the size of a Bic pen (but no larger) in that area. Any more room than that and your skates are too big.

If you don't have excess room in that area, then I wonder how you are tying your skates.

[Vet88 674]

22 minutes ago, trtaylor said:

You should be able to slide something the size of a Bic pen (but no larger) in that area. Any more room than that and your skates are too big.

You should NOT be able to slide...

If you can slide a bic pen down the back of your heel then the skates are at least 1 size too big. Use an HB pencil, it's straight and slightly thinner and when you can't slide one of those down the back of your heel then you are about as close to a "perfect" fit for length that you will get from a retail skate. But perfect is subjective, some like toes just off the toe cap, some like them further back.

[Vet88 674]

41 minutes ago, Spacecowboy said:

tried a Vapor in 7EE which fit great except that I had the depth problem again.  

Any suggestions?

Go back to the vapour and use eyelet extenders to solve the depth issue?

https://www.greatsaves.org/product-page/skate-lace-eliminators

or make your own so they can fit anywhere on the boot. Have a look at this thread so you can see how another member solved this problem:

The singles are one the 3rd and 4th eyelets but you could fit them anywhere on the boot. pm me if you want more information on how to make your own.

[Spacecowboy 0]

Length is not an issue.  I should have mentioned that I’ve done this test and there is barely any room in the back.  When skates are on I brush the front of the tow cap.  
 

when skates are initially put on and not necessarily tightened very tight, foot is locked in as good as can be expected.  
 

once a little sweaty the slip forward starts. It’s not much but it is enough to not be good. I feel like it is the width just in front of the heel.   When it happens, toes are definitely uncomfortably against the toe cap.  I don’t necessarily feel and up and down slip but my foot is forward against the underside of the tongue.  
 

I thought about putting a layer of leather between the tongue and the laces to try to reduce the volume top to bottom and keep foot locked in. 

[trtaylor 3]

13 minutes ago, Spacecowboy said:

Length is not an issue.  I should have mentioned that I’ve done this test and there is barely any room in the back.  When skates are on I brush the front of the tow cap.  
 

when skates are initially put on and not necessarily tightened very tight, foot is locked in as good as can be expected.  
 

once a little sweaty the slip forward starts. It’s not much but it is enough to not be good. I feel like it is the width just in front of the heel.   When it happens, toes are definitely uncomfortably against the toe cap.  I don’t necessarily feel and up and down slip but my foot is forward against the underside of the tongue.  
 

I thought about putting a layer of leather between the tongue and the laces to try to reduce the volume top to bottom and keep foot locked in. 

How experienced of a skater are you? If boot fit (length) is as you describe, maybe you are skating standing up?

Don't be offended. But, if your knees are bent sufficiently, I am having difficulty understanding your problem in a boot that is sized for length correctly.

[Spacecowboy 0]

No offense taken but I would say that at the risk of bragging, skating strength is definitely not an issue.  

[Vet88 674]

31 minutes ago, Spacecowboy said:

when skates are initially put on and not necessarily tightened very tight, foot is locked in as good as can be expected.  
once a little sweaty the slip forward starts. It’s not much but it is enough to not be good. I feel like it is the width just in front of the heel.   When it happens, toes are definitely uncomfortably against the toe cap.  I don’t necessarily feel and up and down slip but my foot is forward against the underside of the tongue.  
I thought about putting a layer of leather between the tongue and the laces to try to reduce the volume top to bottom and keep foot locked in. 

It sounds like you have too much volume, it's the 3rd, 4th and 5th eyelets down that control the lock of the heel into the heel pocket. As you have suggested, try slipping something under the tongue, if it eliminates the slip forward you know what the problem is, the boot has too much volume for you unless you add mods to it.

[krisdrum 233]

Re-heat and mold them again.  Paying particular attention to the mid-foot to heel section.  If you are comfortable baking them yourself, get them pretty pliable.  Lace them up and get someone to help you massage the mid-foot rearward of the boot, pressing it into your foot.  Or if you have to do it solo, try either plastic wrap or an ace bandage to compress the boot to try to get a better mold.  Might also be worth looking into insole with a bit of arch and a good heel cup to lock your foot in even better in the boot once things start to get sweaty. 

[Spacecowboy 0]

Thanks for all of the tips so far. 

[VegasHockey 1280]

I would use a pair of Bauer Speed Plate insoles as they have grips on the insole to keep your foot planted in place. Also maybe add a pair of Power Foot. I find the stock insoles, when your feet sweat, allows your foot to move too much. The Power Foot will take up the negative space in the toe cap which will also lock your heel in place as well since your foot won't be able to slide forward. 

https://www.bauer.com/en-US/hockey-skates/skate-parts-accessories/speed-plate-2.0-658507.html

https://www.adrenalinedesign.ca/product/powerfoot-performance-insert/

Edited February 4, 2021 by PBH

[puckpilot 312]

Maybe try this lacing method. It's what I use. When you do the final tug, it's like your foot gets sucked back into the heel pocket. Give it a try at home off-ice. You should be able to feel a significant difference. 

 

[Spacecowboy 0]

12 minutes ago, PBH said:

I would use a pair of Bauer Speed Plate insoles as they have grips on the insole to keep your foot planted in place. Also maybe add a pair of Power Foot. I find the stock insoles, when your feet sweat, allows your foot to move too much. The Power Foot will take up the negative space in the toe cap which will also lock your heel in place as well since your foot won't be able to slide forward. 

https://www.bauer.com/en-US/hockey-skates/skate-parts-accessories/speed-plate-2.0-658507.html

https://www.adrenalinedesign.ca/product/powerfoot-performance-insert/

Funny, but I have both the speed plate and the power foot.  Power foot was definitely needed as the toe cap seemed huge going to a nexus from a Graf!  I like the feel of the power foot but I didn’t feel like the speed plate was much improvement over the stock insole. 

[stick9 890]

Sounds like your footbed or innersole is what's moving. If you want to reduce the skates volume try some SuperFeet yellow. You'll need to re-bake the skates afterwards. 

[Spacecowboy 0]

48 minutes ago, stick9 said:

Sounds like your footbed or innersole is what's moving. If you want to reduce the skates volume try some SuperFeet yellow. You'll need to re-bake the skates afterwards. 

hmmm....never thought that the speed plate itself could be moving.  

Is the Superfeet Yellow thicker than the Speed Plate?  if so, this solution interests me just from the volume aspect. 

[krisdrum 233]

2 hours ago, Spacecowboy said:

hmmm....never thought that the speed plate itself could be moving.  

Is the Superfeet Yellow thicker than the Speed Plate?  if so, this solution interests me just from the volume aspect. 

Not sure about thicker, but I bet will elevate your arch, which could help provide the sensation of reduced volume in that area and help hold your heel back. 

[Spacecowboy 0]

Interesting point about the speed plate itself moving. My skates are a Nexus 7D. 
The Speed Plate that was sold to me is a 7. 
I was reading the fitting instructions from Bauer.  If the skate is a 1/2 size or a wide, they say to go up a size on the speed plate.  
Since a Nexus 7 is close to a Supreme EE I should have been sold an 8 Speed Plate.  
 

The 7 SP is 2-3 mm shorter that the inside of my skate.  If I completely unlace the skates and push on the SP, it will slide forward and back.  I am now thinking that once sweaty, the SP is sliding forward, which makes more sense than my foot sliding up the arch support. 
 

So...thanks Pure Hockey for a year of poor fit and a waste of $50!!!!

 

[Vet88 674]

1 hour ago, Spacecowboy said:

The 7 SP is 2-3 mm shorter that the inside of my skate.  If I completely unlace the skates and push on the SP, it will slide forward and back.  I am now thinking that once sweaty, the SP is sliding forward, which makes more sense than my foot sliding up the arch support. 

Even if the SP is 2-3mm shorter than the inside of the skate, it shouldn't slide forward if your foot was secured properly by the laces into the boot. If you are saying it is slipping under your foot then thats a poorly fitting insole as your foot should lock it in place.

You have said you are sitting on the bench and kicking the heel back into the pocket. That's not because of the insole, that's because your foot has slipped forward due to too much volume.

[Spacecowboy 0]

Well then...so much for that theory. 
 

still not happy about the fit on the insole.  

[hockeydad3 51]

The speed plates have the right size, rebake them. 

Try to find socks that don't slip on your insoles. 

The quarter package of your skate is not heat moldable. Your only way to reduce volume is trying to use a thicker or padded tongue, a thicker insole, ankle booties and tying tight with waxed laces. 

[Spacecowboy 0]

Thanks.  Pretty sure it is heat moldable. ...

 

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[hockeydad3 51]

Sorry, didn't Google the + version. Try baking with the shrink wrap method to get a better wrap and heellock. You can find it on YouTube for True skates.