Profiling question

[Hockeydad73 0]

My son is 15. Played Aa past few years now off to high school hockey. He’s been doing some summer hockey and we recently tried a new blade profile. He’s had a 9-10 for some time . We kept the 9-10 and just added a +2 forward lean. He says he feel like he’s on his toes instead of balls of feet and that he falls out of turns now. He’s a good skater , coached for a few years. Is this a break in period or what should we do ? He wants to give up on it. I think it will help with acceleration 

[Gswift 33]

I have so many questions....If he's been playing AA & you say he's a good skater, why are you trying the new profile? Is his acceleration the reason for AA instead of AAA? What do his AA/summer hockey coaches say about his skating? Who came up with the +2 idea? 

[BenBreeg 493]

You said you tried a new profile.  The first question is, why?  What were you trying to accomplish with the +2 to begin with.  If it is affecting his balance, why assume the pitch is correct and the skater needs to adapt to it?  The proper setup should work with the skater.  There is very little data available for picking profiles, BTW.  

[caveman27 208]

3 hours ago, Hockeydad73 said:

My son is 15. Played Aa past few years now off to high school hockey. He’s been doing some summer hockey and we recently tried a new blade profile. He’s had a 9-10 for some time . We kept the 9-10 and just added a +2 forward lean. He says he feel like he’s on his toes instead of balls of feet and that he falls out of turns now. He’s a good skater , coached for a few years. Is this a break in period or what should we do ? He wants to give up on it. I think it will help with acceleration 

Remove the +2 forward lean and keep the 9-10. It will grind a bunch of metal off to get back to what it was before.

If he wants more cut while accelerating or turning, remove the +2 forward lean and then you could try a 8-10 or 7-10, or maybe a triple or quad profile with the front radius being small.

 

Just for reference for others who are more knowledgeable in profiling, what is his height and weight, and skate size, and position?

Edited August 16, 2022 by caveman27

[Hockeydad73 0]

Yep. He’s had the 9-10 with 5/8 hollow for over a year no issues . Was the +2 we just put on his new blades that screwed it up. Was hoping to gain some acceleration with that but he isn’t pleased at all with it 

[Hockeydad73 0]

4 hours ago, Gswift said:

I have so many questions....If he's been playing AA & you say he's a good skater, why are you trying the new profile? Is his acceleration the reason for AA instead of AAA? What do his AA/summer hockey coaches say about his skating? Who came up with the +2 idea? 

It’s really not that involved. He just wanted to try. As far as most are concerned you can always be a bit faster. 

[Hockeydad73 0]

2 hours ago, caveman27 said:

Remove the +2 forward lean and keep the 9-10. It will grind a bunch of metal off to get back to what it was before.

If he wants more cut while accelerating or turning, remove the +2 forward lean and then you could try a 8-10 or 7-10, or maybe a triple or quad profile with the front radius being small.

 

Just for reference for others who are more knowledgeable in profiling, what is his height and weight, and skate size, and position?

15 years old. 5”11 170 lbs. Forward, mostly wing , on occasion center. Size 8 skate. Bauer hyperlite. 

[Hockeydad73 0]

2 hours ago, BenBreeg said:

You said you tried a new profile.  The first question is, why?  What were you trying to accomplish with the +2 to begin with.  If it is affecting his balance, why assume the pitch is correct and the skater needs to adapt to it?  The proper setup should work with the skater.  There is very little data available for picking profiles, BTW.  

[Hockeydad73 0]

A suggestion from a friend. Lot of forwards seem to be going to the forward lean here in MI. 

[puckpilot 312]

Nothing wrong with experimenting, but tweaks in equipment ideally should be skill enhancers not skill changers. If it's a definite nope, then it's a definite nope, don't try to conform the player to the equipment, especially if there's nothing wrong. If there was something wrong, then maybe stick with it for a bit, but it's like they say, don't fix what ain't broke.

For reference, I have an issue with my skating where I get way too much on to my toes. I'll spare the boring details, but what your son describes is what I feel. Well, what I used to feel. And that's not good. Would not recommend 0/10 stars. 😛 I experimented with profiling to help me a long, and each step of the way, I knew within a few minutes on the ice if a change was a step in the right direction. I actually ended up with a negative pitch in order to address things. So, I'd recommend just going back to what he likes.

my2cents.

[Hockeydad73 0]

10 minutes ago, puckpilot said:

Nothing wrong with experimenting, but tweaks in equipment ideally should be skill enhancers not skill changers. If it's a definite nope, then it's a definite nope, don't try to conform the player to the equipment, especially if there's nothing wrong. If there was something wrong, then maybe stick with it for a bit, but it's like they say, don't fix what ain't broke.

For reference, I have an issue with my skating where I get way too much on to my toes. I'll spare the boring details, but what your son describes is what I feel. Well, what I used to feel. And that's not good. Would not recommend 0/10 stars. 😛 I experimented with profiling to help me a long, and each step of the way, I knew within a few minutes on the ice if a change was a step in the right direction. I actually ended up with a negative pitch in order to address things. So, I'd recommend just going back to what he likes.

my2cents.

Sage advice man ! Thanks 

[VegasHockey 1280]

On 8/16/2022 at 12:25 PM, Hockeydad73 said:

Yep. He’s had the 9-10 with 5/8 hollow for over a year no issues . Was the +2 we just put on his new blades that screwed it up. Was hoping to gain some acceleration with that but he isn’t pleased at all with it 

Try a 10/13. That will give him a little more "on the toes feel" without pitching him forward. I would also move the pivot point back 10mm. 

https://ssmprodukt.com/produkt/4025-se-split-1/

[psulion22 402]

Has he gained any of that acceleration?  If not, then I’d say it’s a definite nope. If he has, then you’d have to look at the trade offs and maybe give it a little more time. Trying new things is great, but there have to be advantages to switching. If there’s nothing gained, then there’s no reason to switch. 
 

There are a lot of ways to get that extra acceleration. Try a different profile, or different type of profile - triple, center glide, quad, ellipse. Dial the +2 back to a +1 and see if that gives him the middle ground. Try a shallower hollow to reduce drag. Try a different type of steel, like Flare or Bladetech. Getting the right profile can make a huge difference in someone’s skating.  But finding that profile takes a lot of trying different things to see what works and doesn’t. My suggestion is to take all his old steel and have it profiled different ways. Then try it all out and see what sticks. If he doesn’t have a lot of old steel, find some cheap used sets on SidelineSwap. 
 

I just went through the same thing myself. I tried and tried to get input from different people here to avoid the trial and error portion. In the end, I just had 3 old sets profiled differently and tried them all out. I’m glad I did because the one that felt best was an Ellipse and given reviews and input, I probably wouldn’t have picked that. 

[BenBreeg 493]

If acceleration is a weak point of his, why not examine his skating mechanics and training first?  I would guarantee there is more potential there than with messing around with blade profiling. If I had a kid who claims he needs more acceleration, strength, explosiveness, and skating mechanics are the places I would be focusing on.

[Paluce 24]

On 8/16/2022 at 11:37 AM, Hockeydad73 said:

My son is 15. Played Aa past few years now off to high school hockey. He’s been doing some summer hockey and we recently tried a new blade profile. He’s had a 9-10 for some time . We kept the 9-10 and just added a +2 forward lean. He says he feel like he’s on his toes instead of balls of feet and that he falls out of turns now. He’s a good skater , coached for a few years. Is this a break in period or what should we do ? He wants to give up on it. I think it will help with acceleration 

For situations like this, I understand the issue. You want less steel at the toe for that acceleration, but on a 9-10 it is leaning him forward when he is on the Center of the blade.  I would bring him back to 0 and let the profile take the steel away from the toe. i.e. by using something like a custom OMNI 8-9-10-11.  It’s smoother and faster than a 7-10.  
 

I use this 8’ toe -> 11’ heal profile for a lot of players who give me the same feedback you wrote.  It is one of the easiest and smoothest profiles You can skate on. 

[Hockeydad73 0]

2 hours ago, Paluce said:

For situations like this, I understand the issue. You want less steel at the toe for that acceleration, but on a 9-10 it is leaning him forward when he is on the Center of the blade.  I would bring him back to 0 and let the profile take the steel away from the toe. i.e. by using something like a custom OMNI 8-9-10-11.  It’s smoother and faster than a 7-10.  
 

I use this 8’ toe -> 11’ heal profile for a lot of players who give me the same feedback you wrote.  It is one of the easiest and smoothest profiles You can skate on. 

So is there a similar prosharp profile ? How do U get the Omni done ?

[Paluce 24]

OMNI profiles are from Blackstone. Their profiles are continuously variable (like an elipse) except Blackstone tells you the exact radius at specific points. Unlike the elipse where it is a mystery. 
 

I profile using OMNI’s 90% of the time.  Their Quads are the same as Prosharp’s, just better and smoother.  
 

The closest Prosharp profile is the 9’/10’