Hockey Shop Business

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

That is a pretty even price.

[JCYC5 0]

Wow...this is a great thread.

I will never purchase from a internet hockey store now.

[sk8ordie 0]

Yeah, a lot of people are always under the impression they are being ripped off for some reason. Buy as Jimmy says, they don't realize there are many other costs for running any business, not just hockey shops. I may be somewhat guilty in not trusting anyone. I always check the internet before buying anything but I'm only checking to make sure the price is reasonable. I'll pay the extra few bucks for the convenience and service but i won't pay double.

[UMWhockey 0]

I am in charge of starting a pro shop back up at my rink so i am kinda learning as i go here. First off i can't get the owner to get credit apps back to me, so it makes it hard to get a wide range of stuff in. For all you out there who have pro shops, what kinds of stuff sell the best. I really don't have a bunch of money to work with, so i need to be able to turn over products very quickly. I know that tape, mouthgards and stuff sell well, but what about equipment. I am trying to stock a lot of beginner equipment beause we have a lot of kids who want to try the game, but with all the other equipment i don't have the money to buy everything, so hence is my situation.

[Chadd 916]

I am in charge of starting a pro shop back up at my rink so i am kinda learning as i go here. First off i can't get the owner to get credit apps back to me, so it makes it hard to get a wide range of stuff in. For all you out there who have pro shops, what kinds of stuff sell the best. I really don't have a bunch of money to work with, so i need to be able to turn over products very quickly. I know that tape, mouthgards and stuff sell well, but what about equipment. I am trying to stock a lot of beginner equipment beause we have a lot of kids who want to try the game, but with all the other equipment i don't have the money to buy everything, so hence is my situation.

I'll put together a list and send you a PM tomorrow.

[Shorthanded67 0]

I am in charge of starting a pro shop back up at my rink so i am kinda learning as i go here.  First off i can't get the owner to get credit apps back to me, so it makes it hard to get a wide range of stuff in.  For all you out there who have pro shops, what kinds of stuff sell the best.  I really don't have a bunch of money to work with, so i need to be able to turn over products very quickly.  I know that tape, mouthgards and stuff sell well, but what about equipment.  I am trying to stock a lot of beginner equipment beause we have a lot of kids who want to try the game, but with all the other equipment i don't have the money to buy everything, so hence is my situation.

I'll put together a list and send you a PM tomorrow.

Wow, just talked about this topic driving home with my teammate an hour ago.

Our local rink is giving a third go at a pro shop. First time, the rink owners ran the shop. Second time, another LHS brought a good portion of their inventory down and ran the proshop. Finally I'm assuming the rink owners will be taking care of the proshop again.

In a rink proshop, I almost see a waste in carrying a large amount of skates and protective (and to an extent, a large supply of high-end sticks.) Generally, in a area where there are several great hockey shops around, most players already have their skates, protective, etc. I see the proshop's main function as carrying that last-second "oh crap it just broke" or similar kind of stuff as mentioned above such as tape, mouthguards, laces, spare parts, wheels, lower end sticks. Although as a manager in the retail business, I know firsthand that one cannot underestimate the power of that high-dollar impulse sale. (i.e; "MOM, I need that new Synergy!", "MOM I need new gloves", "MOM I need new shinguards!")

However as in JR's case (and probably others on MSH too), I realize that RDV is pretty much the only shop in town (that I'm aware of) so I'm sure they do very well with skates/protective/etc...

I guess it all depends on the local competition but in a proshop, it couldn't hurt to have a 24ft. wall of tape and 6 ft. dedicated to everything else, eh?

[Chadd 916]

Actually, you can do quite well by choosing brands and price points that other shops do not cover well. In our case there is a PIAS very close to our shop, literally a couple hundred yards away, so we shoot for more high end stuff. We also stock Mission/Itech much more heavily than they ever did.

Our low price gear is mostly from smaller manufacturers and often offers more bang for the buck then the low end gear from the big guys. It's a matter of evaluating the market and seeing what space is available and then fitting into that niche.

Keep in mind, it takes 18 months before you get to know the buying habits of the market and really understand what levels you need to stock.

[jimmy 194]

I think it's just how much money they make on raiing the price of what the products are worth, a guy at my LHS said they buy T-blades for around $13 and sell them for $22.

How much did it cost him for shipping? That alone likely cost $1 per blade. What about customs broker fees and tarrifs? Another $1 per blade. What about interest on loan money to purchase and stock them? How about the employee wages to help the neophyte select radius and hollows? Insurance to cover theft and damage, Rent, electric, phone (to answer calls like "do you have xx t-blade in stock"?

All these add to the wholsale cost of the blade. It cost way more than $13 for a t-blade.

[jimmy 194]

I am in charge of starting a pro shop back up at my rink so i am kinda learning as i go here. First off i can't get the owner to get credit apps back to me, so it makes it hard to get a wide range of stuff in. For all you out there who have pro shops, what kinds of stuff sell the best. I really don't have a bunch of money to work with, so i need to be able to turn over products very quickly. I know that tape, mouthgards and stuff sell well, but what about equipment. I am trying to stock a lot of beginner equipment beause we have a lot of kids who want to try the game, but with all the other equipment i don't have the money to buy everything, so hence is my situation.

It's a no win situation. Hard to build up a nice inventory without capital. But, stocking just a few best selling products won't cut it. If you don't have SELECTION, the customer won't visit your shop. They like to browse and look at a large selection, even if they don't need anything.

When I first opened I tried that method, don't work well. If I stocked the Vapor 6 shin, customers would ask, where's the Vapor 8? If you don't have the Vapor 8, they go elsewhere. Some will special order if they really want it, but shipping on special orders kills the profit margin.

What I suggest is try to stock one of each. As it sells, replace it. For example, I have one each of each size of Bauer 8000 shins in stock. Not a dozen size 14's in the stockroom. This way you can have a nice display and selection for the impulse buyer. When I sell one, I reorder a replacement. Only without one in stock for a short time. Them when Bauer discontinues that model, I will only get stuck with a few instead of dozens.

Also, stock sticks!!!!!! This is the largest selling equipment item. Seems players have some obsession with collecting them, and trying every new one that comes out. :-)

[jimmy 194]

Jimmy, are you in the Dallas area? If so, where.

No, I use to live there years ago. We had one rink, no pro shops at all. That's where I learned to sharpen skates, the one kid at the one rink was terrible and never there. I hear Dallas has lots of rinks now and pro shops everywhere.

I really like Dallas. When I retire here, I may move down there and open a little sharpening business!

[warrior37 0]

oh does anyone work at or frequent any of the Peranis in Michigan?

[MDE3 0]

Question....(sort of)

Obviously "buying power" has a tremendous impact on the ability of any LHS to compete with the internet, particularily with "closeouts"

Sounds to me that there needs to be a strong LHS "Association" which can negotiate on behalf of a wide body of stores ..at least on the "closeouts" if not new equipment. New current model equipment would be more difficult....given the variety of contracts and products. Does this exist already?

If this is not already in place.....By organizing and getting a percentage of the "Association" to at least "bid" on closeouts, it would do a couple of things....if they were not susccessfull, it might raise the price of the closeouts by offering more competition for it. If they were successfull..even if say only 1/3 rd of the association participates in a given bid, then the "Association" members could have close out, low end inventory, which would rival the pricing of that on the internet, as well as reduce the access of the large internet stores to this equipment. Additionally, the money used for buying "closeouts, could replace some of the buying budget for low end new equipment....Eventually reduced sales of their low end lines, might force the manufacturers to look at how they are marketing their own equipment, and how they have forced this to come about.

This could give even evolve to where the Association has better buying power for volume buys of even some brands of new equipment.

In many cases local stores are competing with PIAS outlests, who have this same buying power. Also look at "trade-ins..to compete with PIAS....they make the highest margins on that stuff. Obviously store size could limit the ability of an individual store to do this, so maybe just skates.

No doubt manufacturers would not be too happy at first with this collective bargaining arrangement, but, in the end it might provide a much broader marketing tool for them as well.

I am probably naive here, as all this no doubt has been thought of previously, and perhaps even exists now..although I see no mention of it in this thread. It would require that all the LHS stores become members, or at least the majority, for it to work. Maybe an annual fee of say $250.00/year to belong.....enough to have a couple of permanent employees(of the "Association") running the show, but not "in charge" of the operation, so they could not abuse the system.

I cannot think of a better group to work on initiating this if it does not yet exist..than this group who started MSH...inventive, knowledgeable and dedicated.

[Guest Marcelo Cordoba]

The buying situation in the US is much different than in Canada where the buying groups have worked for many years.

Right now, the manufacturers are in the drivers seat, especially with the number of shops on the decline, and it will only get worse. They are in a position to demand from the dealer because some of them know that the store will have a hard time surviving without certain products.

The big 3 can demand what they want pretty much. Anyone outside of that, unless you are that niche brand that isn't in such demand, you are probably starting to change the way you do business.

MDE3, I would be willing to discuss this much more with you in private if you wish.

[awall 0]

Jimmy, are you in the Dallas area?  If so, where.

No, I use to live there years ago. We had one rink, no pro shops at all. That's where I learned to sharpen skates, the one kid at the one rink was terrible and never there. I hear Dallas has lots of rinks now and pro shops everywhere.

I really like Dallas. When I retire here, I may move down there and open a little sharpening business!

Hockey in the Dallas, Texas area has grown from what I understand. I imagine we owe that to the Dallas Stars. With the plethora of Stars centers and the pro shops in other rinks there is actually quite a wide range of shops within driving distance. I went to 3 different shops before I picked one that I felt I could call my own. I still visit the others, but I honestly try to keep my purchases and the one I call home.

What made me pick the shop I picked. Customer service. I went to one shop that was well stocked and tired on a pair of skates. I explained to the guy that I was just learning to skate, but wanted something that I could also play in within a year or so. He put me in a pair of bauer 6k's but I wasn't too happy with them so I didn't pick them up. I literally stumbled across a rink in Addison (Addison Square Garden) and went inside to look around. I had done some research by that time and learned that since I had wide feet CCM's might fit my feet better. I spent some more time talking with the owner and we went with a pair of Vector 6's because he coulnd't order any others in my size ( this was back in January of this year). Any way since I was taking my lessons at this rink I started stoppin in from time to time and it got to the point where I would always get a "Hi, Adam" when I walked in. I'll admit that I'm a sucker for this stuff, but I like to go some place where they know my name.

[Chadd 916]

Question....(sort of)

Obviously "buying power" has a tremendous impact on the ability of any LHS to compete with the internet, particularily with "closeouts"

Sounds to me that there needs to be a strong LHS "Association" which can negotiate on behalf of a wide body of stores ..at least on the "closeouts" if not new equipment. New current model equipment would be more difficult....given the variety of contracts and products. Does this exist already?

If this is not already in place.....By organizing and getting a percentage of the "Association" to at least "bid" on closeouts, it would do a couple of things....if they were not susccessfull, it might raise the price of the closeouts by offering more competition for it. If they were successfull..even if say only 1/3 rd of the association participates in a given bid, then the "Association" members could have close out, low end inventory, which would rival the pricing of that on the internet, as well as reduce the access of the large internet stores to this equipment. Additionally, the money used for buying "closeouts, could replace some of the buying budget for low end new equipment....Eventually reduced sales of their low end lines, might force the manufacturers to look at how they are marketing their own equipment, and how they have forced this to come about.

This could give even evolve to where the Association has better buying power for volume buys of even some brands of new equipment.

In many cases local stores are competing with PIAS outlests, who have this same buying power. Also look at "trade-ins..to compete with PIAS....they make the highest margins on that stuff. Obviously store size could limit the ability of an individual store to do this, so maybe just skates.

No doubt manufacturers would not be too happy at first with this collective bargaining arrangement, but, in the end it might provide a much broader marketing tool for them as well.

I am probably naive here, as all this no doubt has been thought of previously, and perhaps even exists now..although I see no mention of it in this thread. It would require that all the LHS stores become members, or at least the majority, for it to work. Maybe an annual fee of say $250.00/year to belong.....enough to have a couple of permanent employees(of the "Association") running the show, but not "in charge" of the operation, so they could not abuse the system.

I cannot think of a better group to work on initiating this if it does not yet exist..than this group who started MSH...inventive, knowledgeable and dedicated.

THG, SFS and others are already in place. Most associations like that get a % of sales, so you have to do a pretty high volume to make it work for your shop. Otherwise, the membership can cost as much as the discount.

Picking up closeouts from wholesalers can help on th bottom line too.

[kasparaitis 0]

Question....(sort of)

Obviously "buying power" has a tremendous impact on the ability of any LHS to compete with the internet, particularily with "closeouts"

Sounds to me that there needs to be a strong LHS "Association" which can negotiate on behalf of a wide body of stores ..at least on the "closeouts" if not new equipment. New current model equipment would be more difficult....given the variety of contracts and products. Does this exist already?

If this is not already in place.....By organizing and getting a percentage of the "Association" to at least "bid" on closeouts, it would do a couple of things....if they were not susccessfull, it might raise the price of the closeouts by offering more competition for it. If they were successfull..even if say only 1/3 rd of the association participates in a given bid, then the "Association" members could have close out, low end inventory, which would rival the pricing of that on the internet, as well as reduce the access of the large internet stores to this equipment. Additionally, the money used for buying "closeouts, could replace some of the buying budget for low end new equipment....Eventually reduced sales of their low end lines, might force the manufacturers to look at how they are marketing their own equipment, and how they have forced this to come about.

This could give even evolve to where the Association has better buying power for volume buys of even some brands of new equipment.

In many cases local stores are competing with PIAS outlests, who have this same buying power. Also look at "trade-ins..to compete with PIAS....they make the highest margins on that stuff. Obviously store size could limit the ability of an individual store to do this, so maybe just skates.

No doubt manufacturers would not be too happy at first with this collective bargaining arrangement, but, in the end it might provide a much broader marketing tool for them as well.

I am probably naive here, as all this no doubt has been thought of previously, and perhaps even exists now..although I see no mention of it in this thread. It would require that all the LHS stores become members, or at least the majority, for it to work. Maybe an annual fee of say $250.00/year to belong.....enough to have a couple of permanent employees(of the "Association") running the show, but not "in charge" of the operation, so they could not abuse the system.

I cannot think of a better group to work on initiating this if it does not yet exist..than this group who started MSH...inventive, knowledgeable and dedicated.

I remember when Jimmy(Hoffa) used to run things this way. :D

[MDE3 0]

.

THG, SFS and others are already in place. Most associations like that get a % of sales, so you have to do a pretty high volume to make it work for your shop. Otherwise, the membership can cost as much as the discount.

Picking up closeouts from wholesalers can help on th bottom line too.

Sounds like you need more of a "buyers co-op" than these other entities, which sound like "for profit" ventures...Perhaps where only an fixed annual fee tied to projected overhead would be charged, and where surplus$ at year end, would be reflected in a pro rated (based on $ spent) discount/rebate to each store....

[Chadd 916]

.

THG, SFS and others are already in place. Most associations like that get a % of sales, so you have to do a pretty high volume to make it work for your shop. Otherwise, the membership can cost as much as the discount.

Picking up closeouts from wholesalers can help on th bottom line too.

Sounds like you need more of a "buyers co-op" than these other entities, which sound like "for profit" ventures...Perhaps where only an fixed annual fee tied to projected overhead would be charged, and where surplus$ at year end, would be reflected in a pro rated (based on $ spent) discount/rebate to each store....

To get someone good, it has to be worth all of the time they will have to put in. Unless you get a huge number of shops, that's a significant cost per shop. That's why the current systems do it the way they do.

Once we franchise, we'll do a buying group. ;)

[GekigangarIII 0]

The hockey industry is so strange... It's one of the few industrys where the manufacturer thinks they're doing you a favor by "letting" you sell their products... how bass-ackwards is that??

[sabresfan11 0]

sharpenings:  our LHS went from $5 - $6 this January.. I dont have a problem with that...is this in range with other shops??

Tape..well I buy it by the case to avoid the $3.50 a roll at the shop/...

My LHS has equipment a bit more than online shops, so tax vs shipping are generally a wash.

I alternate purchases from online and the LHS to make sure I am seen and heard with the $$$ and not just for sharpenings(I also go off hours for sharpenings to get a good one..lol). And My miracle stone stretches that out now as well...

BUt  today I was there...Buddy with me wanted to try an Itech grille/shield combo.. sticker said $79, he said $66 would buy it. He hemmed and hawed, went online and found it for less...

not sure my point here, but its hard to be a LHS with all the online shops... Also, the sales and closeouts are lacking at the LHS ...synergy grips are still $160, yellows 150  for example...

but..a LHS in not something I could live without.

great thread

Iceholes....do you go to Mckie's?

[iceholes 0]

sharpenings:   our LHS went from $5 - $6 this January.. I dont have a problem with that...is this in range with other shops??

Tape..well I buy it by the case to avoid the $3.50 a roll at the shop/...

My LHS has equipment a bit more than online shops, so tax vs shipping are generally a wash.

I alternate purchases from online and the LHS to make sure I am seen and heard with the $$$ and not just for sharpenings(I also go off hours for sharpenings to get a good one..lol). And My miracle stone stretches that out now as well...

BUt  today I was there...Buddy with me wanted to try an Itech grille/shield combo.. sticker said $79, he said $66 would buy it. He hemmed and hawed, went online and found it for less...

not sure my point here, but its hard to be a LHS with all the online shops... Also, the sales and closeouts are lacking at the LHS ...synergy grips are still $160, yellows 150  for example...

but..a LHS in not something I could live without.

great thread

Iceholes....do you go to Mckie's?

yes...McKies is one of them!

Love em!!!

[atomicpunk5150 2]

Great topic, I always like to hear different opinions from other shop guys on what they go through.

When the shop I work at opened 7 years ago it was a different world. We are inside a 2 surface rink and owned by the rink owner. Back then most of our customers only shoped at the local shop, nowdays almost everyone uses the internet. You just can't stock skates like you used to, we are down to just a few different lines from Bauer/Nike & CCM, just enough for a few different price points. You also have to be smart with your buying $$, if you get stuck with a dud you will loose your ass.

I had a hockey dad this week yell at us as he walked out the door because our Easton Comp stick blades were to damn expensive. They were $1 higher then the big online sites. I get sick of hearing "I'll just go buy it online".

Sharpenings keep us at going. We have a Blademaster and 2 Incredible Edgers. We do a ton of hockey sharpenings at $7 each for 30 Adult League teams, 15 Travel Teams & 15 House teams. For Figure skates we get $10 to $15 depending on the blade. It is California after all, stuff is $ expensive here. We have earned a reputation as the best around. I know that this is a hockey board, but we do a ton of figure skate sharpening. These girls have skates that range from $100-$1000 dollars and they are getting them sharpened every other week. They are demanding customers, so you better be doing good work, but it is a money maker. You also wouldn't believe how many $100 dresses each of these girls buy, insane.

Tape, mouthguards and other small stuff is great. You also gotta carry a decent amount of sticks. People like the selection. This has been one of the toughest years picking out sticks for the booking order, so many different models from each company. Is it worth carrying a bunch of Stealths? Most of ours are still on the shelf, Is $200 and up too much for the hockey buyer nowdays. With almost all of our shop guys and Instructors using Bauer, we sell a lot more Vapor sticks. We still sell a ton of wood sticks got to love the Sherwood 5030 & the Bauer 3030, money.

As for protective you gotta carry Bauer & some CCm/Jofa. BUT, one of our best sellers is the Itech Hockey package stuff. We sell a ton to all the new youth and adult players, great bang for the buck.

A tough business to turn a buck. I bet that you will see less and less Pro Shops in the future. Or maybe a change to just Sharpenings and Tape, LOL.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

Are you using the Incredible Edgers strictly for figure? Just curious.

[predshockey17 0]

The only things I buy on the internet is for Roller Hockey. No one in Western Michigan carries Abs blades. Well good ones not those crappy koho ones. Otherwise all my stuff is from my LHS. I would like to run my own Lhs when Im older but it doesn't sound like a good idea now.

[jimmy 194]

I can get closeout items but.... I can't afford to buy 1/2 million at a time like the big buying groups, so I can't get the big discounts they do.

BTW, have you ever been to a PIAS or chain sporting goods store? They usually don't know squat about hockey. In a store that stocks baseball, golf, football, snowbards, etc.... you can never get real "good" at one sport. Heck, I spend so much time studying the catalogs, talking to customers, on BB's like these, learning hockey and hockey equipment and trends. I could never do that if I had to learn baseball, golf, bball, etc. If you are going to be good at something, you have to devote your full attention to it. The PIAS just can't. Your lucky if their employees even know the difference between a wood and composite stick, nevermind explain flexs, curves, lies.