Hockey stop and sharp turns outside edge right foot

[tenfour 1]

Hello guys!

I'm having major issues with hockey stops and sharp turns using the outside edge on my right foot. With the left foot I can do almost anything but my right foot is seriously lacking behind mostly due to the fact that I cant control the outside edge very well. Crossovers are fine but way worse backwards when my right foot is using the outside edges.

I'm on ice 3-4 days a week but I rarely get any opportunities to practice my right foot and when I do get some time it's very brief and I don't think that I'm getting anywhere. I have also built (according to my physiotherapist) a lot bigger muscles on my left side causing some muscle imbalances in my body. This leads to my back hurting on my left side, I guess because it's the side working the most during my skates.

Is there anyone that got any tips or drills I can use? Is there anything I can do off-ice?

Thanks a lot!

[mc88 160]

The following is a re-hash of a post I made another forum about practicing the hockey stop. Hopefully, it'll help you out (particularly the video portion)...

Chattering usually comes from these areas:

- Legs are too straight==>bend your knees more (straight legs cause too much angle on the blade too soon)

- Too much angle on the runner too soon== >lift your weight up, move your feet sideways, then sit and lean back; you'll be using lean angle and your weight to stop instead of trying to use JUST your leg muscles

- Weight is too far over the toes or heel==>bring it back towards the ball of the foot

- Runners are too sharp for your weight==>try a flatter radius (I'm around your height and weight, and I prefer a 5/8ths ROH; I could go all the way down to a 3/8" before I start to get chatter)

Imagine, if you will, taking a knife and cutting a very thin layer off of the top of a cheese block. If you add too much blade angle and try to take off too much, the knife will get stuck and won't budge--since you have forward momentum on the ice and a somewhat correct posture, instead of the runners getting stuck in the ice and you falling over, they'll just skip. If you start off by pressing too hard on the knife, it'll bend and start to dig into the cheese on an arc--again, the runners will dig too fast and too soon and cause it to skip across the ice. So what you want is a combination of correct angle, correct sharpness of the blade, smooth entry (not too hard, not too soft) and an even weight distribution.

Great video on quick, aggressive hockey stops (notice the thin to thick cone shaped scrape mark on the ice--that's a combination of all 4: correct angle, correct sharpness for the weight, smooth entry and a transition into an even weight distribution across the runner, meanwhile incorrect "choppy" scrape marks will look like a "Z" pattern on the ice):

(inside edge)

(outside edge)

(hockey stop)

If you can't do any of the techniques in the video (without chatter), then you'll need to work on your edge/weight/balance control.

[MThockeydad 469]

Jump to 3:22

[tenfour 1]

Thanks mc88, these videos are amazing! Very rich in detail. :)

[mc88 160]

Thanks mc88, these videos are amazing! Very rich in detail. :)

No problem. Here's another great video on a bunch of edge drills (practice makes perfect, there are no short cuts here--you'll need spend time perfecting the fundamentals before moving forward):

[Vet88 673]

Hello guys!

I'm having major issues with hockey stops and sharp turns using the outside edge on my right foot. With the left foot I can do almost anything but my right foot is seriously lacking behind mostly due to the fact that I cant control the outside edge very well. Crossovers are fine but way worse backwards when my right foot is using the outside edges.

I'm on ice 3-4 days a week but I rarely get any opportunities to practice my right foot and when I do get some time it's very brief and I don't think that I'm getting anywhere. I have also built (according to my physiotherapist) a lot bigger muscles on my left side causing some muscle imbalances in my body. This leads to my back hurting on my left side, I guess because it's the side working the most during my skates.

Is there anyone that got any tips or drills I can use? Is there anything I can do off-ice?

Thanks a lot!

There's not a lot you can do off ice except get some inline skates and practice the same drills as you would on ice for edge work. It's not exactly the same but it will help as you learn to use your edges. The first video link MTHockeydad posted is good, figure 8 edge drills are one of the best for learning inside and outside edges, you can never practice this stuff enough and I still do 40 minutes of these drills every day. Then slalom work. As you begin to improve your edges, check out the I-Train Hockey videos on you tube, they are a bit more advanced but have drills that are really good to practice from an early stage, especially the c cut bubble drills. They also give you some good explanations as to what your edges are meant to be doing and how you should be positioned on your skates which a lot of videos (and coaches) out there do not cover - here is their one on edge control, 40 minutes long but well worth the watch:

If you don't have time during your practices to cover these basics, you need to get to public skates and work specifically on this stuff, you won't get better unless you practice it and until you master these basics the rest of your skating will suffer.

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

it also maybe as simple as your holder is not aligned properly. the right skate is usually the skate that it happens to. I had 2 pairs in one hour yesterday that were!

[tenfour 1]

it also maybe as simple as your holder is not aligned properly. the right skate is usually the skate that it happens to. I had 2 pairs in one hour yesterday that were!

Hm, I will check this.

Had great progress the past days on public ice using the iTrain videos though :-)

[JAG 20]

The following is a re-hash of a post I made another forum about practicing the hockey stop. Hopefully, it'll help you out (particularly the video portion)...

Chattering usually comes from these areas:

- Legs are too straight==>bend your knees more (straight legs cause too much angle on the blade too soon)

- Too much angle on the runner too soon== >lift your weight up, move your feet sideways, then sit and lean back; you'll be using lean angle and your weight to stop instead of trying to use JUST your leg muscles

- Weight is too far over the toes or heel==>bring it back towards the ball of the foot

- Runners are too sharp for your weight==>try a flatter radius (I'm around your height and weight, and I prefer a 5/8ths ROH; I could go all the way down to a 3/8" before I start to get chatter)

Imagine, if you will, taking a knife and cutting a very thin layer off of the top of a cheese block. If you add too much blade angle and try to take off too much, the knife will get stuck and won't budge--since you have forward momentum on the ice and a somewhat correct posture, instead of the runners getting stuck in the ice and you falling over, they'll just skip. If you start off by pressing too hard on the knife, it'll bend and start to dig into the cheese on an arc--again, the runners will dig too fast and too soon and cause it to skip across the ice. So what you want is a combination of correct angle, correct sharpness of the blade, smooth entry (not too hard, not too soft) and an even weight distribution.

Great video on quick, aggressive hockey stops (notice the thin to thick cone shaped scrape mark on the ice--that's a combination of all 4: correct angle, correct sharpness for the weight, smooth entry and a transition into an even weight distribution across the runner, meanwhile incorrect "choppy" scrape marks will look like a "Z" pattern on the ice):

(inside edge)

(outside edge)

(hockey stop)

If you can't do any of the techniques in the video (without chatter), then you'll need to work on your edge/weight/balance control.

This dude is an awesome skater, and an even better teacher. I love his videos, I've been skating since I was 6 and I am still learning by watching this guy. I wish I had a coach like this when I was a kid... or even had these videos when I was a kid.

[caseyjones 26]

Hm, I will check this.

Had great progress the past days on public ice using the iTrain videos though :-)

You should also look into finding a knowledgeable physical therapist who can help with your posture and pelvic alignment. Perhaps you can do some research on posture, pelvic alignment and muscle imbalances. Your description of your over/under developed muscles leads me to believe that your body is out of alignment. This gives the false sense that one leg is longer than the other which may be contributing to your difficulty witht one side

[tenfour 1]

You should also look into finding a knowledgeable physical therapist who can help with your posture and pelvic alignment. Perhaps you can do some research on posture, pelvic alignment and muscle imbalances. Your description of your over/under developed muscles leads me to believe that your body is out of alignment. This gives the false sense that one leg is longer than the other which may be contributing to your difficulty witht one side

Yeah. Actually, I have been visiting three different physio therapists, one napraprath and one masseur because of a related issue. My left lower back hurts after intense skating sessions. I think it could probably be related to my heavy use of the left foot.

The therapists have all said that I need to build a better core which I have been working quite hard with and I was given a kind of strap to put around my core to relax the back muscles while skating. They also tell me I have muscle imbalances but have no real solution to this (I was given some kind of spacer to put in my boot to make up for the length imbalance). My masseur tells me that I need to stretch or foam roll my hip flexors.

None of this has actually helped my lower back pain issues..

Good news is that I'm getting better on my right foot though, just through simple plain practice on public ice. My hopes is that when I can master the right foot like my left one the imbalances are going to be worked away and the pain like so :-)

[IPv6Freely 2083]

I actually get quite a bit of hip pain during public skates because it's the same edge in using for the entire time. I wish they'd switch directions occasionally.

I've stopped going to those and just go to stick times now. Sucks having to be in full gear just to skate, but at the same time I can push my limits because I'm not afraid of falling.

[Vet88 673]

Stat from a uni study, for 85% of a game players are changing direction. Skating straight lines and then the corners at public sessions is really a waste of time if you are there to try and get better at skating. I spend a lot of time giving players I coach drills they can do at public sessions that work all edges, challenge them without putting other skaters at risk and are based around continual changes of direction. If you are on one edge for most of the time you need to rethink what you are trying to achieve during that skate.

[IPv6Freely 2083]

Wow Vet88 that 45 min video is... really friggin good.

[Vet88 673]

Wow Vet88 that 45 min video is... really friggin good.

Yep, these series of itrain vids (train the trainers) are some of the best around. Those bubble C cut drills are brilliant, you can see what you are trying to achieve (the vid), you can listen to what you are trying to do (the grind) and you can measure how you are going (listening and by looking at the cut in the ice). This is the kind of stuff I get my players to work on at public skates. It's amazing how many of them think they can skate but you cover a simple drill like this and it shows up weaknesses immediately in their technique.

And just for interest sake, if you want to see what a REALLY REALLY good skater looks like, take a look at this. I never thought I'd see an elite NHL skater be made to look ordinary. Watching Besa is like watching liquid in motion, he is just so smooth....

[caseyjones 26]

Yeah. Actually, I have been visiting three different physio therapists, one napraprath and one masseur because of a related issue. My left lower back hurts after intense skating sessions. I think it could probably be related to my heavy use of the left foot.

The therapists have all said that I need to build a better core which I have been working quite hard with and I was given a kind of strap to put around my core to relax the back muscles while skating. They also tell me I have muscle imbalances but have no real solution to this (I was given some kind of spacer to put in my boot to make up for the length imbalance). My masseur tells me that I need to stretch or foam roll my hip flexors.

None of this has actually helped my lower back pain issues..

Good news is that I'm getting better on my right foot though, just through simple plain practice on public ice. My hopes is that when I can master the right foot like my left one the imbalances are going to be worked away and the pain like so :-)

Unfortunately, finding a PT who is knowledgeable about alignment and how to fix it are few and far between. Once your pelvis goes out of whack then it sends your shoulders and upper body out of whack too. Generally, when a muscle is tight its because something is out of alignment that is making it tight. So stretching a muscle that is already being outstretched (tight) because of misalignment is generally counterproductive. It may feel good when you stretch it, but you can be assured that it will always return to being tight until you fix the cause of the misalignment. You can foam roll and stretch (mainly for other reasons), but it will never fix the problem. Misalignment will also be a major contributing factor to over/under developed muscles since it is causing your muscles to fire in proportions they arent designed to. Ive had this PT open my eyes to what is really going on in your body with issues such as yours. If you just sit back and think about it, it makes perfect sense.

I would continue to work on core strength and to work on isolated glute exercises. Your glutes are one of the most powerful muscles in your body and you want them firing. You can also google postural and/or pelvic alignment exercises. Its tough to navigate the internet sometimes, but i would research your symptoms and focus on alignment more so than imbalances. You need to fix the alignment first. Anyway, glad to see that you have been getting better at your stops despite your other issues.

[MikeBoyarchuk 45]

There is so much great content in this thread! Thanks guys, going to look through these so I can have the drills set for my boys on the backyard rink.