jimmy

I haven't tried it yet, not enough steel height left on my skates to clamp in the holder. I'll be getting new steel soon, but will try the 100/75 when I can because I like lots of bite.. Of my 4 teamates, two tried the 90/75, one loved it and said it was perfect for him, he normally skates on a 5/8 hollow. The other loved it but wanted more bite, so I just moved him to the 100/75. His normal hollow was 17/32. The other two I put on the 100/75 and they both loved it, one was on a 7/16 and the other on a 15/32 hollow so that made sense that they liked the FBV with more bite. Of my other "testers" who agreed to "experiment, all pretty much liked what I picked for them. I tried to get the high school kids to try it but the last two weeks they were all trying out and no one wanted to make any changes till they made the team. Irbinaid, glad you lied it!

Did I show up at the wrong rink? No way I get to that deflection without the FBV. I put 4 of my teammates on FBV's. In all cases, they were faster by leaps and bounds. One older, good but overweight player, was able to pull off 3 breakaways, something he was never able to do before. The only downside to the FBV is once everyone gets it, then we are all even again until the next breakthrough.

Excellent. And unlike some companies who market stuff without any independent testing, it's refreshing to see BS have all their ducks in a row, with quantifiable data.

Agreed.....I've never seen an oggie grip. In some ways, I think your impression of Oggie Grips being a bust is due to the internet. What I mean is there is a saying about "you don't know what you don't know" but it's the opposite here. I haven't spoken with Joe in a couple of months, but he said the sales of the grips have increased each year. Plus he's starting to get NHL players to use the grips, although sometimes he modifies the grips so much that it's hard to tell. In any event, let's go back 5+ years to before MSH (or the Easton board) were created. Let's say you've never heard about an Oggie Grip, but you noticed something real weird on an NHL player's stick, so you ask the guy at the shop what it is. No idea. Enough kids ask that question all year before the owner of the shop makes a connection that that was the booth he buzzed by at the trade show, then he remembers he saw an ad by them in USA Hockey, so he calls Joe to inquire about carrying the grips. That's a common chronology prior to the age of the message board. You wouldn't consider a product a bust because you'd have no idea how long it'd been on the market. In the case of Joe's product, I think it's crazy to suggest a product whose sales have increased annually is a bust, particularly when we know that NHL players using products help drive sales, and Joe didn't get NHL approval until last season (I believe). I realize the counter argument could come from a retailer like Jimmy saying they haven't sold well in his shop, which would mean Joe's happy because his sales have increased, but Jimmy's not happy because the products sat. That's a fair assessment, yet the products have always sold well during demo days, so it may just be that this product won't ever have explosive growth -- it's just going to be slow and steady over the years as more people try it. You are partially correct. However, also with the age of the internet and BB's, and hockey journals in every rink, many people are exposed to product advertising before a product even makes it to the stores. I judge popularity and sales potential by how many people ask me for a product, either phone calls or in the store. If there is enough interest, then I'll stock it. In the case of Oggies, I think I got a dozen from Ronnie B. at first. It took a yr to sell them. I think the problem was the amount of stick that had to be cut off to install them, people didn't want to risk it. it may be a great product, just lack of interest in our area for wierd butt plugs. FWIW, the angled ones didn't sell much either.

On that note - SmartHockey Stickhandling balls? I know every shop seems to have tons, but I don't think I've ever heard of someone actually buying or using one. we sell one or two a week. We've been selling them for 6 yrs. They sell great, not a bust for sure. I'd guess and say we sold approx 1000. Now Oggie grips.... that's a bust. But we also must take into account that some things sell better in different parts of the country.

For those unfamiliar: http://www.gohocks.com/hockey/index.php Yup, hocks were a bust for sure. I don't think I even sold one at regular price. I told them, they needed to make the upper in black, not white. They looked like a tidy whitey sewn onto socks. If they were black, they would have sold.

The Curtis Curve is not a bust, many love it and still use it. I had one, a VIC in the early 80's, in fact it's up in the rafters in my garage. for sale, best offer :) I personally didn't like it but I have lots of people ask for it. I've been selling the Eagle version, no problem. Goalies still like it.

How many cuts with the spinner do you get before it needs replacement?

Hi, I know your predicament, I use to live in Southern Maryland and play up in Mt Vernon. I don't recall any LHS's in the area, I did all my business with a LHS near my home town. I really don't sell equipment like the online stores, I'm more of a local guy and really just sharpen skates my mail. Some MSHrs have asked me for stuff and I'm glad to help if their LHS doesn't have the product, but it's not something I want to get deep in to. I recommend you go to JR if you want something. This is his board, and from what many have said, he'll treat you right. If he can't then PM me and I'll see what I can do for you.

Jimmy: Actually, not to split hairs, I didn't misquote you, you mis-directed me to the "post above" rather than one 4 or 5 posts back. No wonder I was confused! And I remain confused in that you direct your customers to MSH so they can get information, yet you have repeated several times in this thread that you don't believe MSH should be "giving away information for free" because it is "cutting our own throats". As I said in my earlier post, from reading your comments in this thread... "Your stand seems to be, and I may be confused by this, that it is "much better to keep everyone UNINFORMED, so that I, the LHS, am the only source of product information and they are forced to come to me". Your second stand seems to be: "An informed person will rip me off/scam me by going and buying the product somewhere else."" Certainly the industry faces many challenges, and arguably the entire industry has been very slow to change. We agree, I believe, that brick & mortor businesses must evolve or die. Where we differ, I think, is where and in what way. I believe that a well-informed customer IS your best customer. Of all people they recognize the inherent value of a well informed and well stocked LHS. There are other areas to change; but of course, I'm not going to discuss that here, because it would be giving it away for free! Although I don't believe my business experience is relevant to the point, I'll satisfy your curiosity: Yes, I have owned a business; I am very much aware of profit and loss statements. I am now a marketing and advertising professor; I am well aware of the vast shifts in business practice and strategy as the world has transformed. And, just in case you subscribe to the adage "those that can, do: those that can't, teach" ... LOL, for many years I worked in advertising with experience in virtually every product and service category, (including both LHS and a hockey manufacturer) with a particular specialization in, and fondness for, retail. I have also developed business plans and strategies for on-line companies as well as developed strategies for retailers faced with stiff on-line and/or big box competition. I think your putting words in my mouth. I never said I want to keep customers MISINFORMED, that's your interpretation and your wording.. I have no problem ON THESE TYPE BOARDS, helping people find information about a product and do it quite often. Simply put, giving them exact instructions how to buy something on ebay or online is against my interests, and that of the local hockey stores in their area. I liken it to a auto mechanic or a doctor who worked hard learning his trade, then going on a board and posting info how to bypass their locals. The post I quoted is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. I notice you didn't have any comments about that, and that's fine. Well, got to go, I hear a guy at Coke is posting the secret recipe on a BB. :D

Hockeymom, I don't expect you to understand. Business has changed quite a bit since the online and ebay explosion. We brick and mortor stores have service as an edge over the online stores. Service includes the ability to feel, see and try on equipment and get proper fitting and advice. There is a price to pay for that service, yet some want to have it both ways. You misquoted the post I was referring about, here's the correct one: "I've got friends who recently bought skates of E-bay but used their LHS to try the skates on first to see if they liked them or not. Turns out that they saved about 400$ Cnd for XXX's. Now I personally think that it is not fair for the LHS owner as he provided a service but did not get any rewards. I think it sucks for the LHS. However, you can't blame the customer much either as he's saving a lot of money" My customers are not the enemy as you suggest. I actually have a MSH link on my website and encourage customers to visit this and other boards to get as much info as they can. Curious to know what your business is and what your internet competition is like.

I agree with you, those who don't have LHS's nearby have a dillema. When I was in the military and stationed at god-forsaken places that had no LHS's, I had to rely on advice given by phone from a trusted LHS in another part of the country. We didn't have online and ebay stores. However for every one person like you who doesn't have a LHS nearby and is using the board for true need, there are 20 who are on these boards just to save a buck, no other reason. You don't have to believe me, on this board alone you will find many posts from folks, who admit scamming their LHS, trying stuff on and then buying from ebay or online. Perfect example is the post above. Until you've been scammed, you really don't know how it feels.

You seem to understand correctly that the radius is proportunate to blade size. A smaller radius will be used on smaller size skates than larger ones. Depending on your skating style and ability, a 7 or 8' is more in line with a size 5 skate. You will not feel "tippy". However if you had a size 10 skate and put a 8' on it, yes, you could feel "tippy." That's prob what your profiling guy meant (I hope). Weight has nothing to do with radius, that effects the hollow you use.

I didn't realize this was a for sale site. If that's the case, I have everything for sale, just call. ;)

If you think the XXX goal skate is better, wait till you see the new Vector and RBK goal skates. Replaceable stainless steel, lightened and lowered holder. Sweet. I just ordered a 9k pump for me. IMO, the replaceable steel is a breakthru that will be accepted by goalies like never before. The stainless is only icing on the cake. If it's flash you want, go for the bauer. If it's fit and function (and durability), the RBK is the way to go.

Yes, exactly.

Find a LHS that knows what they are doing, not just one that does 9' on everyone, or one that only offers two choices. What radius (rocker) you need is vastly different than what others need. Never go by a recommendation of another skater. Seek advice of a professional sharpener/radius technician who can talor the rocker to your ability, position, skating style, positional play, skate size, height, as well as matching it to compliment a proper hollow. BTW, Rockering is an old term, for a service that was done freehand. It's now evolved into profiling and radiusing. Do a Google search for those terms and you will find some very helpful info.

All I'm saying is store workers should not be helping folks so they can bypass ther local LHS's. This has nothing to do with my store, but the "hockey world" as you say, in general. IIt's a macro thing, not micro. If there is no reason to go to the local LHS because you can get free fitting advice from MSH, then less folks will go to their LHS, they'll shop ebay. BTW, I don't believe I've ever mentioned the name of my store on this board.

No one is talking about making a profit on members.

Since many manufactures visit this site, I'd like them to give me the plans, materials and trade secrets on how they make their composite sticks. This is an "informative' site after all, isn't it? I'll wait for all this information to be posted, so I can start up my copycat factory and have some chinese guy make it for cheaper. It'll be a cold day in hell before I get it, I assure you. Why, you should be smart enough to figure it out. Once the word gets out that Chadd or JR will help fit you for skates so you can make the sweet ebay purchase or buy from Isellhockeyeeuipmenoutofmygarage.com, why on earth would anyone visit their LHS. Stop trying to be the "nice" guy. Either you have a business to run or you don't. Don't get so hung up on the holy-er than thou, we're just here to help the poor guy who doesn't have a LHS that knows what they are doing. Yo're being taken advantage of and you don't even realize it. "Bla , bla, bla, what size Kor do I fit into?" ....great ebay price on Kors. Suckers.

I agree this is an informative site. That's what's great about it. Information on a certain stick is way different than skate fitting services, something our LHS customers pay extra for. It's your site, if you want to give free services, that's up to you. Us LHS's have quite a lot of competition with the online stores, I just see it against our interests to help people so they can shop online. What's the next step, inviting all MSH'rs down to our store so we can fit them in person for that sweet ebay deal. Just being realistic.

I think it could be of value. I know Chadd and I have helped each othe rout when needed. If I got a stick he don't have that one of his customer's wants, or vice versa. Or an emergency piece of steel or repair piece. Also should unite in other regards. For example, why are we giving skate sizing info to the general public?. When we do this we are cutting our throats, our livelihood, helping folks bypass the LHS so they can buy off ebay and internet stores, to save a measly buck. Part of the reason we have to charge more is for our advice and fitting tme/info. Shouldn't be giving that away for free. What if a surfer is one of our local customers. I myself will not help with sizing info, that should be left to the LHS. Yes, some have crappy LHS's, but how do you know.

Any chance a forum for LHS workers only?

I can't agree when so many people have never had that problem before using Vectors. It's a very common problem with the top couple models, but not with many other brands. Lace bite is just not common with Vectors here. Never had any customer complain of lace bite on a Vector, any Vector, and I sell lots of them. Compared to a high end Bauer, the toungue is much better and does not break down as fast. I don't see what the problem is.

Got that beat, there's a rink near me that has an old figure skate machine, they do all skates on it, golalie, figure, hockey, without ever changing a setting or hieght of holder.