jimmy

The reason I do it is because I ship many runners all over the world and I can't be guessing if the sharpening is done correctly. Customers pay a lot for shipping and are relying on perfect sharpening when they receive their blades. Unlike a hollow sharpening, where the sharpener has a simple measuring tool to inspect the finished product, there is no such thing for the FBV. By ensuring in advance that the spinners are good and the holder/machine are aligned and operating properly, inspecting with the test runners each morning (and sometimes during the day if I think a spinner may be at the end of it's life) well this really reduces the chance that an FBV will come out bad. If a local customer gets a bad FVB, he can just come back and get it redone. With mail order it's a whole different issue.

This topic has really degraded. We don't need engineers, we don't need to do testing. There are so many variables, it cannot be debated accurately on a board. FWIW, I personally have done over 45,000 FBV sharpenings in the last 3 years. Is that a good sample size? Please, tell me if that is not enough to verify accuracy of spinners? I calibrate my machines daily, making a mold from a sharpened blade, (each spinner tested) then view the mold with a microscope to see actual results. I use and go through a LOT of spinners each month and have not seen ANY variation in results. So much for this "major Problem" with spinners. Next topic please.

You are exactly correct on both counts. If I've been skating on say 1/2" and I switch to 100/50 and like it a lot more, well, discussion over. SO many have done this switch that any questions about the FBV's function and popularity can now be laughed off. And I can guaranty that on ANY skate sharpening machine, when one factors in the slop in motor bearings, the drive shaft, the diamond arm, the diamond, the wheel, etc, the dressing of a regular hollow is not going to be exactly perfect each time either. It will be close that no one can tell the difference when skating, but still out of tolerances. We are not talking space program here, a tiny bit off tolerance is not going to be noticed by a skater. A sharpening by someone who doesn't know how to adjust for blade thickness, well that's a whole different story. Still, considering that most runners are now so close to 2.9mm, it's not very hard to adjust holder for a 1mm difference. Unlike the old days when CCM runners were 2.6mm and Tukk+'s 3.1mm and a lot of adjustment was required.

Hope you're Ok, my wife still isn't the same after our accident. Never should have Settled so early. Sure send them up. kklinder is right. I you are an accomplished skater, the ZC will work very well for you, and performance can surpass other skate sharpening methods. The more you lean in turns, the better it grabs, and when out of the turn, lots of speed. Not for everyone, but certainly can be a better option for some. We are really still in infancy with this one, just too many settings possible. So, if you don't hit it right first time, making adjustments may require more experimenting than say a FBV, sometimes it's just making the channel wider, but other times a bit more complicated.

The difference is ZC is not sharpened like a regular skate, the channel width/depth/hollow is adjustable. Was that how the Perfecta was and why did the Perfecta not catch on? Got any pics of your blade, would really like to see it. Feedback from ZC users has been that the speed is incredible, so I don't think "drag" from ice build up is an issue. Yes, the FBV is great technology, so isn't the ZC. Like the FBV, don't knock it till you try it. Many were sceptical about the FBV as well. Some people like the FBV better, some like hollows better, some like the ZC better. It's just another option.

Well, what setting are they on now?

If they can't stop, they simply need to change to a FBV with more bite.

When we first started doing FBV, we gave a lot of them away for nothing, just to get people to try it, like it, so they could get hooked and tell their friends. Even today if someone tries a FBV and doesn't like it, we'll gladly let them try another FBV based on the symptoms they didn't like, and or go back to their regular hollow at no charge. Just makes sense when introducing new voodoo technology. It worked.

One of my customers, a college professor, get's 20hrs between sharpenings. He's not playing hockey, just skating for exercise. In hockey, how long edges last has so many factors so it's almost impossible to nail it down, but the majority of my customers tell me it lasts longer than hollows. They predict elections with a sampling of 800 people, so I will have to say based on feedback I've gotten from about 5000 skaters, I would be confident in saying for the majority it last longer. Results may vary. :-)

Goalie! Smart move. ;-) Yes, we can do goal skates, but I haven't got around to testing/experimenting with them yet. If you want to give it a free try, send them up but give me a few days. It's a pain in the @$$ to set up and align the machine and going back and forth between regulars and rockets or goal skates is very time consuming. Also there are hundreds of different ZC settings, including 20 channel widths for each hollow setting. We are literally at the crawling stage with testing each one, so if you do try it and don't like something, it can be adjusted just like we did when FBV's were introduced.

Like JR said, it doesn't perform like it's equivalent hollow, what we are talking about when we say "feel" is really about the bite level. Each player has his/her level of bite that they like. All FBVs have great speed, but different bite levels. I've found many who were comfortably skating on a 1/2 hollow who preferred the say the 100/75 (3/8 bite) over the 100/50 (1/2 bite), yet the same person would hate skating on a 3/8 hollow. Go figure. That's why guides are not going to be real accurate, way too many variables.

Level of bite has so many factors. How many people could never skate on a 3/8 hollow, yet same skater loves the 100/75. A guide would be nice, but honestly, trial by each skater is the best way.

Which setting did we do? Just like FBV's when it came out, you may have to experiment with different settings to find the right one for you. The ZC offers unlimited amount of bite if you want it. There are literally hundreds of different bite/speed combos.

We don't push anything on anyone, but if you'd like to try it and compare it to the FBV, we strongly recommend it. Tom, next time you are in, give it a try. JR, send me a set with a SASE, I'll hook you up. We've been testing it in detail for a while now and results have been amazing. There are so many options with the ZC. It's not a "clone" of the FBV, not even remotely similar, but gives similar performance results, some say even better. Personally, I couldn't imagine anything better than FBV, but this is right up there. If any of my regulars are on this board, send me a set for a free testing. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Contouring does not have to be done with a horizontal wheel/hollow set in, but the benefit of this over using a crossgrinder is that less steel is taken off the runner during the process of radius and finishing. Necessary, nope, but it does save steel and some like that.

A spec of dust can throw off a gauge by 1/1000" or more, same for a little wax on the side of the steel. When you say way off, how much do you mean? If you are within 1-2/1000" it's unlikely it can be felt or noticed on the ice.

Tagging on to what Chadd said, for low volume like yourself, you won't go through much in a year. However, if you are going to want every FBV spinner, that can tack a lot on to initial price.

LG, yes, if you had a deep hollow on your RBK goal steel, it will take a lot of grinding to get it out, then put in the flat. As you know that steel is very hard and needs extra passes anyway, even to reestablish hollows. Changing hollows takes more passes as well, especially from a deep to a shallow. Once the flat is in, shouldn't be too hard to resharpen, but those blades will need minimum of 10 passes ea to refresh the FBV. Curious did your sharpener have his holder set for goalie width's? I'm guessing he did but it shouldn't have been that perplexing to get in the FBV.

The dressing system uses long bits with the shape in it. Doesn't use spinners. I have a pic of the dressing bits, but don't remember my photobucket password and that's only way to post it on this board. Perhaps I can get it up later. The Swede's aren't real good at details. Magnus Erikson however, explained to me that they tested the FBV in Europe and their players didn't really notice much difference, primarily because most of them are skating in the 3/4-1" hollow range. He said the FBV also lost an edge too easy for them. Said it worked well for skaters who were on deeper hollows but it really wasn't suitable for the average European player. Since that's their primary market, that's why they developed the Channel... to get more speed but not lose edges. So far for now we all will have to guess (as we did for the FBV) until we can skate on it and compare it to the other methods. It may have it's niche, so why not another option. It's good for hockey.

Neither the dressing system or shape is anything similar to the FBV. No copyright infringement at all. I've been talking to Prosharp for quite some time about the Z and it sounds interesting and it has been tested pretty well in Sweden and by prosharp in Canada. I should be set up to do it in 2 weeks or so, after a few delays, my equipment has been shipped from Sweden. After we do the blind testing we'll see how it compares to the FBV. The FBV is going to be hard to beat for sure.

because the rink is literally a mile away. we have it worked out. i need a free hand to carry beer. and thanks for being my accountant, jimmy. i need tax advice from modsquad like i need a hole in my head. Nothing to do with accounting, more with legality. So many people think they can buy a sharpener to make a few extra $$$, but fail to realize (or in some cases ignore), the proper legal way to do it. If you do it legally, it can be a nice side business.

Make sure you guys who are getting your machine to run a home business/charging people, get the appropriate federal, state and local business licenses and also report your income using a Schedule C. In the first year you can claim the machine/supplies as a business expense, which works out pretty good, offsetting what you make. Also check with your town, many do not allow or limit foot traffic to a business at your residence. This can be a show stopper. And if you think you can do it under the table, trust me someone will report you, most likely your local LHS who finds out your stealing their business. If you do it on the up and up, everything will go smooth for you.

I asked my diamond company(diamonds is all they do). After examining a used one I sent them, they said they couldn't do it. if you find a place, please let us know.

I was skeptical of the benefits of the machine as we really had no problems fitting skates without it. However, since we've had it, I've changed my mind, it works great and does a much better job than just sitting in the skates. Customers love it as well. We use it on all brands. Combined with sizing, heating, punching, and stretching, it provides the total service package. A good addition for any pro shop. f2racer, sorry we held you captive in the machine longer than necessary. :D I'll have to scold the front desk folks and also restock the magazine rack.

My daughters boyfriend decided he wanted to learn to skate and play hockey. I started him on a regular hollow but after a couple of skates he said he wanted to try the FBV. he's been on it ever since and after completing a 8 week, learn to program, he's skating pretty good, stopping, crossovers, not bad. I wouldn't rule it out, just try it, it's no big deal to go back to a hollow if for some reason it doesn't work for you.