jimmy

Perhaps you have an older holder. Behind the rear hole has a hump in the plastic, the slot is not as deep. That hump is the reverse of the cut out of the Elite, so the elite fits perfect. We tried to fit a PII and STEP in one, they both wouldn't fit. Customer tried at home and I tried as well. No go. I haven't tried it on a different pair yet, will do that when I get some time.

Yes, it's the same steel for the Eastons, same quality. I do a lot of them for my overseas customers because I'm not allowed to ship Easton steel outside the U.S. So STEP is my only option. It does not however fit in the new EQ line of skates, only the Elites fit in those. Looks like they changed the Razor holder.

Not necessary on the velo's, does nothing.

Are you kidding? No, the criticisms, are not accurate. The FBV has been out for 3 yrs now. IMO if someone doesn't like the FBV it is because whomever did their FBV likely didn't do it correctly, or their machine wasn't calibrated correctly, or they tried only one FBV setting and didn't try another. I would say less than 1 of every 1000 who switched to FBV didn't like it. The FBV actually holds edges LONGER than traditional hollow sharpening. With hollows, the edges are always wearing no matter what the skater is doing. With FBV, the edges only wear when turning or stopping. Most of my customers say the FBV lasts as long or longer than regular sharpenings, virtually none say it lasts less. This is no BS. I can't explain why more than 70% of my customers have switched to FBV, other than they love it and would never go back. Some have switched to the Z channel, but less than a hand full have gone back to hollows. The stone can certainly be "dressed" clean by the spinner. Also a smooth finish can be achieved easily. I'd love to talk to the douchebag sharpener who says this can't be done. I'll invite him to my shop and do it right in front of his eyes, over and over again. Dumba$$. Of course, if you have a bad sharpener to begin with, (which is very common), you will not get a good FBV. Recently one of my customers who couldn't make it to me, and he had his skates done by a shop in Wilmington, MA, they now do FBV. He showed up at my shop today, looking for me to fix it. I suspect, all the negatives associated with FBV's can be blamed on just poor sharpeners.

100/1 is very popular for goalies.

I have a name for that.... "Another $6.00" :-) Believe it or not, a lot of sharpenings are needed just because of that reason. Just look around your rink/bench next time you are at the rink, there are skate marks everywhere, on every stanchion, on every wall, under benches, on every screw that holds the thresholds down, literally everywhere.

The reason I do it is because I ship many runners all over the world and I can't be guessing if the sharpening is done correctly. Customers pay a lot for shipping and are relying on perfect sharpening when they receive their blades. Unlike a hollow sharpening, where the sharpener has a simple measuring tool to inspect the finished product, there is no such thing for the FBV. By ensuring in advance that the spinners are good and the holder/machine are aligned and operating properly, inspecting with the test runners each morning (and sometimes during the day if I think a spinner may be at the end of it's life) well this really reduces the chance that an FBV will come out bad. If a local customer gets a bad FVB, he can just come back and get it redone. With mail order it's a whole different issue.

This topic has really degraded. We don't need engineers, we don't need to do testing. There are so many variables, it cannot be debated accurately on a board. FWIW, I personally have done over 45,000 FBV sharpenings in the last 3 years. Is that a good sample size? Please, tell me if that is not enough to verify accuracy of spinners? I calibrate my machines daily, making a mold from a sharpened blade, (each spinner tested) then view the mold with a microscope to see actual results. I use and go through a LOT of spinners each month and have not seen ANY variation in results. So much for this "major Problem" with spinners. Next topic please.

You are exactly correct on both counts. If I've been skating on say 1/2" and I switch to 100/50 and like it a lot more, well, discussion over. SO many have done this switch that any questions about the FBV's function and popularity can now be laughed off. And I can guaranty that on ANY skate sharpening machine, when one factors in the slop in motor bearings, the drive shaft, the diamond arm, the diamond, the wheel, etc, the dressing of a regular hollow is not going to be exactly perfect each time either. It will be close that no one can tell the difference when skating, but still out of tolerances. We are not talking space program here, a tiny bit off tolerance is not going to be noticed by a skater. A sharpening by someone who doesn't know how to adjust for blade thickness, well that's a whole different story. Still, considering that most runners are now so close to 2.9mm, it's not very hard to adjust holder for a 1mm difference. Unlike the old days when CCM runners were 2.6mm and Tukk+'s 3.1mm and a lot of adjustment was required.

Hope you're Ok, my wife still isn't the same after our accident. Never should have Settled so early. Sure send them up. kklinder is right. I you are an accomplished skater, the ZC will work very well for you, and performance can surpass other skate sharpening methods. The more you lean in turns, the better it grabs, and when out of the turn, lots of speed. Not for everyone, but certainly can be a better option for some. We are really still in infancy with this one, just too many settings possible. So, if you don't hit it right first time, making adjustments may require more experimenting than say a FBV, sometimes it's just making the channel wider, but other times a bit more complicated.

The difference is ZC is not sharpened like a regular skate, the channel width/depth/hollow is adjustable. Was that how the Perfecta was and why did the Perfecta not catch on? Got any pics of your blade, would really like to see it. Feedback from ZC users has been that the speed is incredible, so I don't think "drag" from ice build up is an issue. Yes, the FBV is great technology, so isn't the ZC. Like the FBV, don't knock it till you try it. Many were sceptical about the FBV as well. Some people like the FBV better, some like hollows better, some like the ZC better. It's just another option.

Well, what setting are they on now?

If they can't stop, they simply need to change to a FBV with more bite.

When we first started doing FBV, we gave a lot of them away for nothing, just to get people to try it, like it, so they could get hooked and tell their friends. Even today if someone tries a FBV and doesn't like it, we'll gladly let them try another FBV based on the symptoms they didn't like, and or go back to their regular hollow at no charge. Just makes sense when introducing new voodoo technology. It worked.

One of my customers, a college professor, get's 20hrs between sharpenings. He's not playing hockey, just skating for exercise. In hockey, how long edges last has so many factors so it's almost impossible to nail it down, but the majority of my customers tell me it lasts longer than hollows. They predict elections with a sampling of 800 people, so I will have to say based on feedback I've gotten from about 5000 skaters, I would be confident in saying for the majority it last longer. Results may vary. :-)

Goalie! Smart move. ;-) Yes, we can do goal skates, but I haven't got around to testing/experimenting with them yet. If you want to give it a free try, send them up but give me a few days. It's a pain in the @$$ to set up and align the machine and going back and forth between regulars and rockets or goal skates is very time consuming. Also there are hundreds of different ZC settings, including 20 channel widths for each hollow setting. We are literally at the crawling stage with testing each one, so if you do try it and don't like something, it can be adjusted just like we did when FBV's were introduced.

Like JR said, it doesn't perform like it's equivalent hollow, what we are talking about when we say "feel" is really about the bite level. Each player has his/her level of bite that they like. All FBVs have great speed, but different bite levels. I've found many who were comfortably skating on a 1/2 hollow who preferred the say the 100/75 (3/8 bite) over the 100/50 (1/2 bite), yet the same person would hate skating on a 3/8 hollow. Go figure. That's why guides are not going to be real accurate, way too many variables.

Level of bite has so many factors. How many people could never skate on a 3/8 hollow, yet same skater loves the 100/75. A guide would be nice, but honestly, trial by each skater is the best way.

Which setting did we do? Just like FBV's when it came out, you may have to experiment with different settings to find the right one for you. The ZC offers unlimited amount of bite if you want it. There are literally hundreds of different bite/speed combos.

We don't push anything on anyone, but if you'd like to try it and compare it to the FBV, we strongly recommend it. Tom, next time you are in, give it a try. JR, send me a set with a SASE, I'll hook you up. We've been testing it in detail for a while now and results have been amazing. There are so many options with the ZC. It's not a "clone" of the FBV, not even remotely similar, but gives similar performance results, some say even better. Personally, I couldn't imagine anything better than FBV, but this is right up there. If any of my regulars are on this board, send me a set for a free testing. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Contouring does not have to be done with a horizontal wheel/hollow set in, but the benefit of this over using a crossgrinder is that less steel is taken off the runner during the process of radius and finishing. Necessary, nope, but it does save steel and some like that.

A spec of dust can throw off a gauge by 1/1000" or more, same for a little wax on the side of the steel. When you say way off, how much do you mean? If you are within 1-2/1000" it's unlikely it can be felt or noticed on the ice.

Tagging on to what Chadd said, for low volume like yourself, you won't go through much in a year. However, if you are going to want every FBV spinner, that can tack a lot on to initial price.

LG, yes, if you had a deep hollow on your RBK goal steel, it will take a lot of grinding to get it out, then put in the flat. As you know that steel is very hard and needs extra passes anyway, even to reestablish hollows. Changing hollows takes more passes as well, especially from a deep to a shallow. Once the flat is in, shouldn't be too hard to resharpen, but those blades will need minimum of 10 passes ea to refresh the FBV. Curious did your sharpener have his holder set for goalie width's? I'm guessing he did but it shouldn't have been that perplexing to get in the FBV.