jimmy

Are you kidding? No, the criticisms, are not accurate. The FBV has been out for 3 yrs now. IMO if someone doesn't like the FBV it is because whomever did their FBV likely didn't do it correctly, or their machine wasn't calibrated correctly, or they tried only one FBV setting and didn't try another. I would say less than 1 of every 1000 who switched to FBV didn't like it. The FBV actually holds edges LONGER than traditional hollow sharpening. With hollows, the edges are always wearing no matter what the skater is doing. With FBV, the edges only wear when turning or stopping. Most of my customers say the FBV lasts as long or longer than regular sharpenings, virtually none say it lasts less. This is no BS. I can't explain why more than 70% of my customers have switched to FBV, other than they love it and would never go back. Some have switched to the Z channel, but less than a hand full have gone back to hollows. The stone can certainly be "dressed" clean by the spinner. Also a smooth finish can be achieved easily. I'd love to talk to the douchebag sharpener who says this can't be done. I'll invite him to my shop and do it right in front of his eyes, over and over again. Dumba$$. Of course, if you have a bad sharpener to begin with, (which is very common), you will not get a good FBV. Recently one of my customers who couldn't make it to me, and he had his skates done by a shop in Wilmington, MA, they now do FBV. He showed up at my shop today, looking for me to fix it. I suspect, all the negatives associated with FBV's can be blamed on just poor sharpeners.

You guys who don't like fitting fee's would change your tune if you were a store owner who repeatedly, every day, gets scammed by customers who sole intent is to get sized so they can buy online. I would also bet that if you took your business to another local store that didn't have a fee, it would only be a matter of time before that store started doing it as well, once they realized they were getting all the scammers now. We get scammed so much, more for goal equipment rather than skates. Nothing worse to spend hrs fitting a goalie, then seeing that same goalie at the rink the next week with "Hockey Monkey" exclusive color pads of the same make and model you spent all the time fitting. The answer for me is just to stop selling goalie equipment. Which I'm going to do. Skates may be next. It's just not worth the waste of time and money.

100/1 is very popular for goalies.

I have a name for that.... "Another $6.00" :-) Believe it or not, a lot of sharpenings are needed just because of that reason. Just look around your rink/bench next time you are at the rink, there are skate marks everywhere, on every stanchion, on every wall, under benches, on every screw that holds the thresholds down, literally everywhere.

The reason I do it is because I ship many runners all over the world and I can't be guessing if the sharpening is done correctly. Customers pay a lot for shipping and are relying on perfect sharpening when they receive their blades. Unlike a hollow sharpening, where the sharpener has a simple measuring tool to inspect the finished product, there is no such thing for the FBV. By ensuring in advance that the spinners are good and the holder/machine are aligned and operating properly, inspecting with the test runners each morning (and sometimes during the day if I think a spinner may be at the end of it's life) well this really reduces the chance that an FBV will come out bad. If a local customer gets a bad FVB, he can just come back and get it redone. With mail order it's a whole different issue.

This topic has really degraded. We don't need engineers, we don't need to do testing. There are so many variables, it cannot be debated accurately on a board. FWIW, I personally have done over 45,000 FBV sharpenings in the last 3 years. Is that a good sample size? Please, tell me if that is not enough to verify accuracy of spinners? I calibrate my machines daily, making a mold from a sharpened blade, (each spinner tested) then view the mold with a microscope to see actual results. I use and go through a LOT of spinners each month and have not seen ANY variation in results. So much for this "major Problem" with spinners. Next topic please.

You are exactly correct on both counts. If I've been skating on say 1/2" and I switch to 100/50 and like it a lot more, well, discussion over. SO many have done this switch that any questions about the FBV's function and popularity can now be laughed off. And I can guaranty that on ANY skate sharpening machine, when one factors in the slop in motor bearings, the drive shaft, the diamond arm, the diamond, the wheel, etc, the dressing of a regular hollow is not going to be exactly perfect each time either. It will be close that no one can tell the difference when skating, but still out of tolerances. We are not talking space program here, a tiny bit off tolerance is not going to be noticed by a skater. A sharpening by someone who doesn't know how to adjust for blade thickness, well that's a whole different story. Still, considering that most runners are now so close to 2.9mm, it's not very hard to adjust holder for a 1mm difference. Unlike the old days when CCM runners were 2.6mm and Tukk+'s 3.1mm and a lot of adjustment was required.

Only problem with that is all they have to do is dispute the charge. I did learn long ago if it's something I can't easily resell, I take full payment up front. It's just that the act itself that is wrong. BTW, I sell tons of 230 RBKs. :-) Less than 15 min ago my wife just finished sizing someone for RBKs. The mom was having the younger brother try on skates (he was same size as older brother) for a xmas present. After she was finished, she said great, now I can but them for $199 at hockey monkey. Ahhh. Now BANNED FOR LIFE.

Guy comes in and asks me if I can order his kid four of a certain model goal stick. I said sure, I'll order them and they'll be here in a week. Week goes by and I call him to let him know they are in. Oh, he says, I bought them elsewhere. So, should I ban him from the store? he's never bought anything here in the last 7 yrs, only sharpenings.

Nothing wore than some guy who does "research" at the LHS's, then buys online. And people wonder why their LHS no longer stocks high end gear. It couldn't be because DB's never buy anything, they just use them to fit, then buy online. Getting stuck with high end gear at end of season, only leads to a big loss for LHS owners. That's why more and more LHS's don't carry the stuff.

We took all the end plugs off before we put them out. Heck, they steal the plastic plugs, not going to give them a chance at the weighted ones. I warned Easton about this months ago and recommended they put a shrink wrap cover on the end, but no...., that would cost .02 more.

It doesn't matter if they used salesperson help or not. Going into a LHS for sizing or to scout out something when you have intent in advance to purchase the item elsewhere is just wrong. It cost LHS money to have a retail showroom, it's not there for HM customers to check out the items. Let HM spend the money to set up a retail showroom. I'm still amazed people don't get it and try to justify this practice. More and more I tend to support locking everything up and charging sizing fees.

Knowing hockey is way different than knowing hockey equipment. Think about it, how many helmets has the average adult had in their lives, 3?? Most adults, who have played hockey for decades, don't have a clue how to fit, or adjust a helmet. Also, what's right for you may be wrong for someone else. Have to have an open mind. As a owner, I'm looking for someone like that, someone who can show up on time (always), someone who doesn't text while at work, and someone who is actually going to work hard for their salary. One kid who worked for me actually asked me when I was going to get a couch for the lounge. He worked 4 hrs max.

Here's one for you, same kind of thing. Coach coordinates a "Special" Team helmet deal using a LHS that's about 45 mi from where the players live and skate. Then tells them that my store and other nearby store have the helmets in stock, so use us as the "fitting" location. He even goes as far as posting this on the organization's website, directing them to come here. WTF? After the first 2 people came by to get "fitted", and one spilled the beans, we cut that off pretty quick. Sad thing is that if the coach has asked us about getting the helmets, we could have offered the same team discount.

Hope you're Ok, my wife still isn't the same after our accident. Never should have Settled so early. Sure send them up. kklinder is right. I you are an accomplished skater, the ZC will work very well for you, and performance can surpass other skate sharpening methods. The more you lean in turns, the better it grabs, and when out of the turn, lots of speed. Not for everyone, but certainly can be a better option for some. We are really still in infancy with this one, just too many settings possible. So, if you don't hit it right first time, making adjustments may require more experimenting than say a FBV, sometimes it's just making the channel wider, but other times a bit more complicated.

The difference is ZC is not sharpened like a regular skate, the channel width/depth/hollow is adjustable. Was that how the Perfecta was and why did the Perfecta not catch on? Got any pics of your blade, would really like to see it. Feedback from ZC users has been that the speed is incredible, so I don't think "drag" from ice build up is an issue. Yes, the FBV is great technology, so isn't the ZC. Like the FBV, don't knock it till you try it. Many were sceptical about the FBV as well. Some people like the FBV better, some like hollows better, some like the ZC better. It's just another option.

Well, what setting are they on now?

If they can't stop, they simply need to change to a FBV with more bite.

When we first started doing FBV, we gave a lot of them away for nothing, just to get people to try it, like it, so they could get hooked and tell their friends. Even today if someone tries a FBV and doesn't like it, we'll gladly let them try another FBV based on the symptoms they didn't like, and or go back to their regular hollow at no charge. Just makes sense when introducing new voodoo technology. It worked.

One of my customers, a college professor, get's 20hrs between sharpenings. He's not playing hockey, just skating for exercise. In hockey, how long edges last has so many factors so it's almost impossible to nail it down, but the majority of my customers tell me it lasts longer than hollows. They predict elections with a sampling of 800 people, so I will have to say based on feedback I've gotten from about 5000 skaters, I would be confident in saying for the majority it last longer. Results may vary. :-)

Goalie! Smart move. ;-) Yes, we can do goal skates, but I haven't got around to testing/experimenting with them yet. If you want to give it a free try, send them up but give me a few days. It's a pain in the @$$ to set up and align the machine and going back and forth between regulars and rockets or goal skates is very time consuming. Also there are hundreds of different ZC settings, including 20 channel widths for each hollow setting. We are literally at the crawling stage with testing each one, so if you do try it and don't like something, it can be adjusted just like we did when FBV's were introduced.

Great points. You sound like a good customer, honest and understand what goes on. Three shops in my area have recently closed. I wonder what people will do when the LHS is not around. I just bought 2 motorcycle helmets online, a lg, then a XL. Both did not fit, despite the sizing guide recommending a medium. I would never think of being a scumbag and going down to the local bike shop and sizing a helmet there before buying online. Instead, I suck it it up and if make a mistake with my online order, ow well, that's why online prices are usually cheaper.

Like JR said, it doesn't perform like it's equivalent hollow, what we are talking about when we say "feel" is really about the bite level. Each player has his/her level of bite that they like. All FBVs have great speed, but different bite levels. I've found many who were comfortably skating on a 1/2 hollow who preferred the say the 100/75 (3/8 bite) over the 100/50 (1/2 bite), yet the same person would hate skating on a 3/8 hollow. Go figure. That's why guides are not going to be real accurate, way too many variables.

Level of bite has so many factors. How many people could never skate on a 3/8 hollow, yet same skater loves the 100/75. A guide would be nice, but honestly, trial by each skater is the best way.

Which setting did we do? Just like FBV's when it came out, you may have to experiment with different settings to find the right one for you. The ZC offers unlimited amount of bite if you want it. There are literally hundreds of different bite/speed combos.