jimmy

There is a couple of reasons why a shop may charge more. FBVs have a performance edge over a regular sharpening. We pay more for OPS because we feel they give more performance, so same should apply for a FBV. In addition, it simply costs more to do FBV's. The initial machine costs are more, the diamonds cost more, and it may take a little longer to sharpen with FBV. Also, stones wear quickly going from 100/75 to 90/50 to 90/75 and back and forth. So, a little extra price for a performance sharpening is not unreasonable. I only charge $1 more. I don't think that is too much, and customers don't seem to mind paying it. No one else near me is doing FBVs, so I prob could charge more, but don't think that's right. At $1 more I'll recoup my costs, that's all I need. I don't think customers would pay double. Some gear whores maybe, but not most. But then again, people in NYC pay $20 for a regular.

Actually zoning issues are more of a problem for home based businesses than you would imagine. It's very hard to run a home based business, any home based business, where customers come to the location. Trust me, I've done it, or tried to do it. In most cases you are limited to just a few per day, or restricted. Most towns cities frown on lots of traffic in a residential neighborhood. Your neighbors wont like it either. Sole proprietors still need to be registered with the state, and need a Federal Tax ID. And income is income,you must report it, regardless if you are small scale. Taking money from friends to sharpen skates does make you a business. If you want to do it from home, just do it right. Look up the requirements, then follow them. Simple as that. I was naive many years ago and not up to speed on the rules. Sure making some $$ on the side is cool, until someone you are stealing business from finds out you are doing it under the table. You don't want to deal with that hassle.

I went with X02 just thinking that I would have more and more people wanting the FBV, and thus I would prefer the heavier duty of the 2 portables. I wasn't worried about breakeven or profitability. I do not charge people to try out the FBV, but if they like it, I'll charge $3-5 to sharpen depending on how much I like them. I knew how to sharpen skates, and since moving here I haven't been able to find a place I trust to do a good job. So I wanted to just do them myself for my family of 4 and some of the kids I coach. If sharpening other people's skates makes me enough money to pay for wheels and spinners, then it's all good. My experience so far, if you can do a good job sharpening, word spreads fast. Make sure if you are charging people that you have the proper city, state and federal business licenses, and report your profits to the IRS and your state. If you charge, you are no longer a home sharpener, you are a business. You don't want to get caught doing it under the table or without licenses. As soon as your LHS finds out you are, they'll drop a dime to the IRS, etc. You definitely don't want that.

I've only had a total of 3 people of about 800 who tried it who switched back. Two said the 100/75 wasn't sharp enough, one said he just liked his old hollow better, but didn't dislike the FBV. So, 3 of about 800 is pretty good results. I think once you find the FBV setting that feels best for you, you'll be happy. If you're looking for someone who might say, the FBV sucks, I just don't think that's going to happen. :-) it's just too good.

If you can bend over and tie your skates without any problems, you are NOT old! Perhaps the FBV will extend your career another 10-20yrs. :-)

my understanding is that 100/75 from the bite angle alone is closer to 3/8 - not 1/2 just check yourself @ http://www.flatbottomv.com/technical_data.pdf Yeah, according to the FBV chart: 100/75 fbv = 3/8" roh 100/50 fbv = 5/8" roh 90/75 fbv = 3/4" roh 90/50 fbv = 1 1/8" roh Just to clarify... it's Bob that calls the 100/75 a 1/2", not me. IMO a 7/16" would be more along the lines of a 100/60 or so. To clarify this AGAIN, when I first spoke to Steve at Blackstone, he specifically told me that the 100/75 had grip in the 3/8-1/2" range. As such, we called it the FBV 1/2. On our website we fully describe it as having bite in the 3/8-1/2" range, so there is no confusion to those who order this setting from us. Keep in mind that 99.9% of hockey players do not visit MSH, so they have no clue what a 100/75 means. For shops describing the FBV we have to make it easy to understand for the non gear-whores. Most players don't even understand what a regular hollow is never mind a FBV. We've found that most skaters who use regular hollows 1/2 or deeper find the 100/75 adequate for grip. That's what's important.

What I've found is those who thought the 100/75 had too much bite, and the 90/75 not enough bite, they liked the 100/50. So far so good, it's filling the spot.

You'll need the xo2 to do the FBV. I think mini-spinners are $65 in addition to cost of machine. Use a 100/75 for your son to start.

Curious if anyone has found the 100/75 does not have enough bite? particularly on push offs. Also a funny story about the FBV, last night one of my teamates, a holdout who finally agreed to try it after hearing all the other guys raving about it, finally got to skate on the FBV for the first time. Only problem was, last night we played a team full of ringers, ex-college and AHL players. Poor guy looked so slow out there it was pitiful.

What I was implying was not the use of the "medium" forward pitch, 8/13 compound radius(that would be what you are claiming I implied). I was implying a common use of a compound radius with a forward pitch, in general. No one is "dumbing down" numbers. When I first spoke to Steve at Blackstone, he had only 2 FBV's and the way he explained them to me was that the 100/75 had bite in the 3/8 to 1/2 range and the 90/75 had bite in the 5/8 to 3/4 range. I checked my notes that I took while speaking with him, that's exactly what he told me. I'm assuming he used this description to cover a wide range of hollow equivalents as those 2 FBVs were the only avail. I've been very clear to my customers that the FBV 1/2 that's on the order section of my site gives a bite in the 3/8-1/2 range. I call it 1/2 because what else can we call it when it has a range and is not a direct crossover to a single hollow. 100/75 don't mean squat to anyone. We need to make this easier to understand. This is new technology and hard for even the advanced gearhead to understand, especially when most don't even understand regular ROH's. We'll make adjustments as more info is avail. What I do know is, that those skaters who are skating on 1/2 or deeper hollows, adapt very nicely to the 100/75. As for recommending radius and pitch on feedback from the skater, that's just something I've been able to do after having done tens of thousands of radius. In most cases I don't need to see them skate, my evaluation form gives me most of what I need. If I have to make adjustments, I will. In a perfect world, seeing someone skate would be optimal, but not always necessary. I have a lot of test skaters that I use to evaluate, and I watch them skate before and after i apply different settings, so I have a real good idea what works for certain level skaters and what doesn't. In fact I have 5 skaters on FBV's who don't even know they are on them. I evaluate them weekly. If you don't agree or don't like what we do, don't use our service. No one is forcing you to do anything. So just skate on your 9' and be satisfied. I don't advertise on MSH, I don't push anyone on MSH, I don't promote on MSH. In fact, if you have a professional sharpener near you that does what I do, I recommend you use them. I don't know what your agenda is or what you have against me or our service, again, I didn't approach you or try to get your business, you contacted me. Just go play hockey.

Wow, you must be proud of yourself, you found 5 people on MSH that have a similar radius. You get a gold star for that one. We do a lot of 8/13's as that combo works great, especially on the common skate sizes in the 8-10 range with skaters of similar styles. If you are trying to imply that 8/13 is all we do, you are sadly mistaken. We offer a variety of radius and combo radius and pitches and use them all. Mods, let's keep this thread on the FBV track, if you want to move this garbage to another thread, go for it.

I'm not at the store today but I'm sure I have 263, will have to check tomorrow on the 254. As for the goalie steel, I had ordered a bunch and had not looked at the price. I promptly returned them after seeing what they cost. IMO, the RBK steel is superior and no reason to go with STEP, unless you need the extra height.

We get our Step from Midwest who is a wholesaler, I'm not sure if they sell retail but you can try. I've found that they don't keep a lot of Velocity in stock as every time I try to refill my stock, they have to order them from Canada. I try to keep graf and LS2 in stock, but it's getting more difficult. I'm sure it has to do with demand, not much because of the price.

Yes, the 100/50 fits in between the 100/75 and the 90/75 in terms of bite. He got the 100/50.

Your experience is odd, we've found that skaters are actually getting more interval between sharpenings. There are so many variables involved, so it's kind of hard to actually quantify, I guess time will tell. As for my customers (another 82 converted this week) I haven't had anyone come in earlier for re-sharpening (although that would be nice for $$$ in my pocket) than usual. We've renamed the FBV, the UFB! Un (you insert word here) Believable! Oh, ... Fence?? That's so 1970's!

Sizing charts are often wrong. The only proper way to size is to get the actual 3-digit number that's on your holder.

Yes, it's called adjustments. You have to adjust height of holder depending on thickness of the steel. A caliper is a good tool to have, both for measuring thickness of blades and height of holder.

Come on guys, it'd only be mean if it was true. <_<

John, it's real odd that you are experiencing too much bite with the 90/75. From what I've found is skaters crossing over from 9/16 and shallower have found the 90/75 perfect. You have 2 sets of steel, send them back and we'll redo it again, don't give up!

Lefty, had the same issue on the first sharpening but on the second one it isnt an issue. I believe it may take the 2nd sharpening to have the blades set up properly. I will also have the guys do a couple other passes when changing a sharpening from a "normal" to FBV. I've found depending on what hollow is in the skate before the first FBV will dictate how many passes it will take to put the FBV in. Fist time, I'm averaging 10 passes (5 against the rotation) and that seem to work well. Skates like Mission or Rockets may need near 20 passes. I watch the flame and railroad tracks on the stone, when the tracks go away, you're halfway there. When the FBV is in, you'll get a nice thick solid flame at the stone. I think if someone is fishtailing, the shape is not in the stone all the way.

And the Boston version of Dboard! They trash everything, but mostly talk about MILFs

Ok guys for real now is there anyone that does NOT like the way this system works? Had anyone of your customers want the old sharpening back? I want to know getting flack on another board!!! ANYONE??? OTG, of the 300+ I've done, only 1 went back to a hollow but really didn't have a good reason. He didn't have any problems, just had a bunch of games coming up and wanted old hollow for comfort sakes. Before I offered it to the public, all my employees and many of the guys on my team test it for me. I wanted to make sure I got good feedback, as well as being able to witness them skating on it. Hands down, all positive, no one wants to go back. As for the other board, you can't always believe everything you read, who knows it could be someone from another machine manufacturer stirring things up. All I can say is folks, try it, you have nothing to lose, going back to your old hollow is easy should you not like it.

The way it was explained to me, that the 100/75 has a bite in the 3/8-1/2" range and the 90/75 in the 5/8-3/4 range. It's too difficult to explain it that way. nevertheless, I've found that those skaters who were on 9/16 and shallower hollows love the 90/75 and haven't reported any issues. Those who tried the 90/75 who skated on 3/8-1/2 hollows found the 90/75 didn't have enough bite. Once they changed to the 100/75, all was OK.

You aren't supposed to be feeling a difference in bite. Think of it this way, you're keeping the bite you had before and getting the extra glide for free. Normally you would lose a lot of that bite in order to get the extra glide. Well said Chadd! That's it in a nutshell. I'm assuming BS will offer a setting with more bite than the 100/75 for those who want more bite than the 1/2".

I haven't tried it yet, not enough steel height left on my skates to clamp in the holder. I'll be getting new steel soon, but will try the 100/75 when I can because I like lots of bite.. Of my 4 teamates, two tried the 90/75, one loved it and said it was perfect for him, he normally skates on a 5/8 hollow. The other loved it but wanted more bite, so I just moved him to the 100/75. His normal hollow was 17/32. The other two I put on the 100/75 and they both loved it, one was on a 7/16 and the other on a 15/32 hollow so that made sense that they liked the FBV with more bite. Of my other "testers" who agreed to "experiment, all pretty much liked what I picked for them. I tried to get the high school kids to try it but the last two weeks they were all trying out and no one wanted to make any changes till they made the team. Irbinaid, glad you lied it!