smcgreg

I don't know the study to which you refer, but this confirms my intuition. If true, it should be posted on the banner... But of course, that would negate a lot of special profiling arguments wouldn't it? 😉

Not really passing thru, but after I drop my kids off at the rink, I should be there in about 15 hrs. Hope you've got plenty of pucks and sun tan lotion. I'm pretty pale. See you in a bit.

Ok, that's interesting. Confirmation bias is always nice 😉

So, I had a couple pairs of skates sharpened with a Sparx yesterday. I watched while they were doing it, and on one pair, the sound while the first couple passes were done was uneven, then it sounded like the sound got more even on the last two passes. In contrast, the other pair sounded more even from the start. So, the question is, is the sound during the passes indicative of the condition of the skates? The guy commented that the first pair were worse than the second and they were my sons, who is older and skates harder, or is at least harder on his edges, than his younger sister (the second pair). Thanks,

Ok, thanks for the detailed response. To be honest, I don't really know much about CCM and Bauer custom. I've been in Makos since they came out always figured if nothing else came along when I ran out of my stash (like from Bauer since they bought the Mako IP 😞 ) I'd go with Trues. I'd followed them and since they came from the MLX heritage, it was the most obvious option. This person I respect made a compelling (although not technical) argument and not being familiar with the custom process from the others, he got me thinking. Also, it seems like complaints from True buyers have increased lately. Maybe that's just a function of selling more. More skates sold means more mistakes simply due to mass action and hence more complaints. Re: Price... if you're spending a grand, +/- $200 is irrelevant to me if it gets you the better fitting skate. Anyway, thanks.

So, more to the original topic since my son and I are both in our last Makos (actually, he grew into my last pair that were still NIB). So, need to start thinking seriously about this problem, since he will likely need a new pair within a season and is at a critical point in his hockey "career" (for lack of a better term). The assumption was that he would transition into Trues when the time came. A friend of mine who is pretty well versed in skate fitting argues that for what you pay for Trues, you can get a custom skate from the other guys. No, they're not as moldable, but 1) they're truely (pardon the pun) custom. 2) lighter than Trues and 3) I know the True defenders will argue with this, but he has seen more problems with Trues than other custom skates. EVen True defenders should contend that the finish on them is not on par with Bauer or CCM. Aside from the fit argument, another argument would be, if you're paying a grand for skates, the finish should be friggin awesome. I personally don't care about aesthetics (heck I wore the first Makos... yuck), but the finish does speak to the Quality Control. There have been a number of complaints about little issues with Trues and then some others that are not so little. So, my question is this, why is my buddy wrong? A custom skate should fit like a glove, and Trues are the same price (roughly) as a custom from Bauer or CCM, so, why not the other custom options? I'm not beating up on True as a brand, that's why it's in this thread as opposed to the True thread. By rights, if paying that much, a custom skate should fit just as well, right? Thanks, Steve

Yeah, I've never understood the notion of buying Prostock "custom" skates. They're custom for somebody else, so, will likely fit worse than off the shelf skates.

As a Mako wearer who hated the pitch with two kids who have been wearing makos for 4+ yrs each (the end is nigh though),.. the best option in my view is simply to go with a negative pitch on the initial profile. Since Makos are +3 (including holder and steel), simply going -2 on the initial profile gets you to a +1, which is pretty much vapor pitch, I think. I've swapped out to TUUK holders for both myself and my son. Way too many rivets popping to make that swap worth it. The -2 pitch does essentially the same thing (-3 if you want more). He's been a -2 pitch since that first pair 4 yrs ago and it's worked great. My daughter has been -2 ever since she started on Makos about 3 yr ago. She's never had a rivet pop. My son puts a lot of stress on his edges, so, he does pop rivets even by simply going with the negative pitch. It's a heck of a lot better than the alterations at the holder though. For myself, I have shims under the holder and a different pitch on the steel on the left compared to right steel. My right steel has a -3 pitch, my left has a -1 (don't ask... ). My rivets are always popping, but I need the shims to be able to skate. Anyway, given the propensity for Mako rivets to pop more than probably any other skate, I would avoid 1) shims and 2) swapping holders as much as possible. I hope this helps. Steve

If I could get them through you, I'd be happy to do so. When I contact them, I'll let them know where I got the info. Thanks for everything. Steve

Yeah, that's me, always looking for the subpar job.... I get what you''re saying, but I'm not the problem 😉 Thanks for the referral. I'll reach out. Steve

Thanks. I guess they don't want to sell. Oh well

Did you ever find any info out about these? My son is still in Makos and actually wearing a pair I bought for myself when they went out of business. He's playing varsity HS now and I'm worried about taking a shot off the foot from an 18 yr old with a cannon. He's not concerned, but I"m sure he'll be bummed if he takes one off the foot in makos with no extra protection.

At the risk of getting too far off topic, it is possible to be guilty of plagiarizing oneself in a peer reviewed article. That being said, my original comment was ironically pointed at what appeared to be copying the Mako, since I'm well aware SVH was involved with DC on the MLX skate. The reason I thought it was worth noting was that if the heel had changed, maybe the boot had gotten lighter. It appears from subsequent comments that it has gotten lighter, although I'm not sure the heel has actually changed. Back on topic, if the weight has come down, that's very interesting. My son is a Dman and since he's a bantam, shots are starting to hurt the foot in Makos. I told him he should get a beefier skate and Trues are better for that, but he hated the weight when he tried them on. So, if the weight has come down significantly, but they are still more resistant to shots than the Makos, it might be time to switch.

Yes, but I can't copy and paste myself in a publication... that's plagiarism. Just saying. Seriously though, yes, I know and I was kind of thinking the same thing, but at the end of the day Mako and True (VH) are two different skate lines, so, one would be imitating the other if the scenario played out. heck it would be very nice if somebody would simply imitate makos for real so I don't need to keep scouring the web for 5 yr old "new" skates for my kids. Oh well...

After looking at it again, maybe you're right. The picture made it look more like a mako heel, but I think it's just the lighting or something. Nevermind....

Um no. The heel of old Trues vs the heel of the new Trues, see the difference? What does it look like?

Less imitation? Hmm.... that back end looks a lot like another skate.... which one?? Hmmm....

As Vet88 writes above and I have commented on several times on this site, orthotics will only exacerbate pronation. My son has feet as flat as boards and orthotics made his pronation worse and killed his feet. For his flat feet, skates with no support feel best. He wears orthotics in his athletic shoes, which are necessary to avoid problems, but only make things worse in his skates. In my case, I pronate on my right foot, but am neutral on my left. In this case, it's not truly pronation, but the weight is inside the center of the foot and hence more on the inside edge, because with old age, my right knee has become Valgus. This was not an issue when I skated as a kid and young adult. It only became a problem when I started skating again in middle age. Anyway, the only thing that has worked for me is to have the blade moved inward to move it back under the center of pressure of my foot. This isn't sufficient alone, as I've also shimmed under the holder, but actually shimmed the outside of the skate rather than the inside (which is what one would do for pronation in shoes). Anyway, I would not look to orthotics to solve a situation where one "pronates" in skates. Again, this has been discussed extensively in various threads I've commented on.

I'm not in Trues, but when I went from Supremes to Makos I found a similar issue. I left the top two undone on my Supremes, but since the Makos were lower, I didn't feel like I could do that, so, I laced them all the way up and felt like I lost some forward flex. So, I went to 55 flex and that fixed the issue. Now, the problem is that 55 flex is no longer around (add it to the list of innovations that went away), so, I've had to get GREAT SAVES alternative. I actually don't like them as much as the 55 flex, but after some fiddling, got them to work like my old set up. So, my point is, if your other attempts don't work, you might want to try the lace extender to improve flex. Again, I felt exactly the same way when I initially moved to Makos.

As I said in the immediate previous reply to another poster, I had the same issue. I skate a lot and gave it 2 years. After 2 years, I gave up and got rid of the extreme pitch. Much better.

I skate 4-6 times per week and gave the aggressive pitch 2 years. I use a deep knee bend on a skate with neutral pitch. I don't need to skate in high heels to exhibit a deep knee bend .... when appropriate. That being said, I felt the exact same way, when not skating, but battling on the boards or in front of net, I continually fell forward. I was simply off balance. I also washed out a lot on turns. So, after 2 years, I had had enough. I had the pitch eliminated from the steel ( still have the holder pitch) and problem solved! In response to the poster wondering how to address the pitch, I've used both approaches. Both my son and daughter have Makos as well (I've stocked up 6 pairs for the kids to grow into). On my son's we put TUUK holders and LS runners. This would eliminate most of the pitch and matched his old Vapors pretty well. The problem is, the rivets pull out a lot. They don't align perfectly and are stressed too much. There have been a couple of times I've taken them in to get sharpened and loose rivets have been identified. In one case, we were in the middle of a tournament and they were so bad, J.R. had to redo one skate while I waited on a busy Saturday afternoon so, he could play 40 min later. (As always, great service J.R.) On my daughter's, we just went -3 on the pitch and that brings her close to her Jetspeeds, but still gives her probably a plus 1 pitch. They were +4 out of the box, which is crazy!

Your post is the perfect sales pitch for this product. The point in your comment that I underlined and bolded is the exact point that many people out in the world feel is the compelling reason to get the product. If you have "that guy" around the corner that does things the way you want it consistently every time, then the product is redundant and a waste of money. OTOH, not many people have "that guy" and the exact statement that "Too many unknown variables from one shop to the next at play here" is exactly what sells the product to many.

Agreed. Even the most innocuous pass can really sting if you get it on Makos. I'm a beer leaguer, so, don't worry about blocking shots anymore, but my son plays D and I've told him he should wear shot blockers for his. He doesn't want to, but I'm pretty sure he'll change his tune the first time he takes a shot.

As Althomas, I have stocked up. I've got a pair of Mako IIs and M8s for myself, I figure that will cover me for about 5 years and it was less than $500 for both. My son started in MIIs this summer and loves them, so, I just got him a pair for when he grows out of these . I figure between his current and this new pair, I should be covered for 2 years. We'll see what's available at that point. Hard to pass up these deals though. As he said, even if there is a comparable skate in the future, there's no way it will be even close to this cheap and may not even be as good.