Bright Eyes: American Idiots

[MNdgame 0]

I can't say that the war had nothing to do with oil and I didn't.  I said it wasn't all about oil.  It had some effect on it, sure.

But to say it was a big part of it really irks me.  John Kerry's wife said that and it was the worst thing that the thing said.  Undermines everyone who has died and fought there to try to make the world safer and to try to achieve democratic society there.

I didn't want to get dragged into this argument, but to say Iraq was totally for oil sickens me.

I didntt say that it was totally for oil either, I understand that there was other reasons... IMO none of which justify a war, but hey if its what the people in Texas want right?

[Chadd 916]

Maybe more then religion, I actually think he is one guy who is not afraid to face the worlds problems and say and do things that some others wouldn't.

I am not ashamed to say that I respect him, his goals, and all the troops that are trying to make the world safer.

Also, To make SS private would be a great move (In my opinion), as right now and through recent history, the whole concept has been a sham. The worst investment we make in our life is probably to SS.

The only problem I have had with the guy is that his handeling on the envirement has been atrocious in his first term. But there were more important matters to deal with anyways.

And Chris, iraq was not all about oil.

Ok, I'll bite on all of this.

If he honestly thinks he's doing the right thing and not just taking advantage of his position, I can respect that point of view. I just have a hard time believing that his decisions are based on "doing the right thing" as much as he claims.

SS was never meant to be the sole retirement plan for individuals. It was set up as something to add to whatever savings you could amass over your lifetime. If the accounts were privatized, what will happen to the people who invest it poorly? Will we force those people out on the street or do we pick up the tab? To me, privatization is not the best solution.

His environmental policies may be even worse than you describe. Despite the more important priorities you mention, he has still gone out of his way to gut most of the environmental standards set up in the last decade. That seems to be one of his priorities.

As for Iraq, I don't have a problem with the result. Saddam was a sadistic butcher. The motives are a little less clear. Does it make the world safer? Maybe. Does it resolve an old family grudge? Yes. Does it benefit his oil buddies? Yes. Does it benefit haliburton? Yes. Nobody outside of a select few really knows what this was about or why it was done. Anyone who claims they know is most likely a liar and just guessing like the rest of us.

[J-Shera 0]

I like Bright eyes, and Jay Leno, and hey, the fans cheered too.

[warrior37 0]

i hope everyone who disagrees with the war supports the men and women who fight it

[Chadd 916]

i hope everyone who disagrees with the war supports the men and women who fight it

I never quite got what that means, "supporting the men and women who are fighting". Obviously I want them all to come home alive, everyone should want that. Anyone who doesn't has serious issues. Putting a ribbon on my car isn't going to mean squat though.

[warrior37 0]

yea well i dont mean with those tacky ribbons, but only being 21 i find it sick to hear that when soilders came back from vietnam they were spit on at airports and in the capital, also i have a new found disgust for jane fonda

[kosydar 0]

SS was never meant to be the sole retirement plan for individuals. It was set up as something to add to whatever savings you could amass over your lifetime. If the accounts were privatized, what will happen to the people who invest it poorly? Will we force those people out on the street or do we pick up the tab? To me, privatization is not the best solution.

His proposal to privatize SS isn't to completely privatize it. The 6.2% that every individual pays out of their paycheck would be able to put into the stock market or other forms of investment. However, the additional 6.2% that the employer pays will still be kept in its traditional means. So if someone hypothetically loses all of their SS, they still have 1/2 of it left. While its not much to begin with, 1/2 of it is still something. By allowing people to invest their portion of it, it at least forces people to do some kind of planning for their retirement, because like you said, SS is supposed to be supplemental, not a full retirement. I'm not 100% sold on the idea of privatizing it, I'd rather see the retirement age moved up one or two years, plus move the maximum taxable income bracket from $89,000 to $140,000.

[asdfa 0]

pretty sure a US military advisor wouldn't say the war was over oil.

military = bush support      <--generalization

Given this administration's disdain for anyone who doesn't agree with or support their positions, He wouldn't be an advisor for long. Not to mention a current military officer could be charged with treason for saying those things.

woops, i made a mistake. first of all, this guy is was born in the uk, studied in the states and lives in canada and he's a military analyst, but has nothing to do with the us military, though he has participated in some of their meetings and breifings. though a lot of you probably disagree, i doubt the war was really that much about oil, because oil prices are pretty high right now...

[Chris_H 0]

And Chris, iraq was not all about oil.

So once the main threats of terrorist activites have been immobilized the U.S continue to run Iraq as a colonly, using it's resources to support their own interestes. It was a mere imperialistic invasion, like Hitler and Austria, if we take the nievty of Chamberlain out of the equation, Germany needed resources and people to help build the Third Reich, and so it went after Austria. A vague analogy, but the principle reamins the same.

[#1STUD 0]

Wow Did you just compare Bush or are government to Hitler.

[sherwood21 0]

1. Learn how to sing. 2. Learn how to play the guitar.

Conor Oberst is arguably one of the best indie guitarists around right now. He has an unbelievable voice. Bright Eyes are also arguably my favorite band, so I'm biased. I would say other things too..but I don't get angry over the internet...

[Tricky4L 0]

These liberal teachers are killing this country...And others.

Anyways, To compare it to Hitler is a bit crazy.  For the previous 12 years we had warned Saddam to surrender any harmful substances and WMD's we (thought) they had.  Then you keep in mind that he was a tyrant who treated his people horribly and killed Children and women regularly.  Honestly, in my mind that is reason alone to stop him. And of couse he housed terrosist and terrorist networks.  That should be reason alone to get rid of both of them.  Especially after 9-11.  The last thing we need is for terrorists to be able to group and have a safehouse in a country that is controlled by a nutcase.

It is great that Iraq has undergone this transformation.  Maybe I missed some points or am not clear with some that I marked up there.  Just looking at the situation from afar, that is what I came up with.

Yup, he was a tyranical dictator and I don't think many will disagree. But my question is are the people of Iraq really safer now? IMO no. I feel as if the government in Iraq is more a dog and pony show for the media. On top of that I think Iraq will become more of a gangster lead country rather than a ideal democracy for the rest of the middle east to attain.

In the establishments of democracys thoughout the worlds history, it has only worked when it has been obtained by the people of a coutry not "given" to them.

As for supporting the troops...(this is kinda covering the whole topic), I prayed that the US troops would be safe and brought home without harm, I also prayed the the Iraqi forces would return home safe. I really see no overwhelming sucess in any aspect of this conflict. There is no need for massive military production insuring nation wide employment, after the lack of WMDs there is major conflict between the country, and the amount of money being spent there is absolutly obscene while our country is still suffering the effects of a recession. Ask any high level offical when the troops will be pulled out and you'll either get a statement that ends with a "?" or "when we get the job done" which is worth about the same as "?". By the by... are we still going to Mars??

I get sick when I see people spit at the troops, I also get sick when I see the troops pop a chub when they shoot something that moves or blow something up dispite whats known about it...*cough*asprinfactory*cough* (yea I know that was a different prez different situation).

While we are at it who knew that over 10,000 civilian Iraqis had been killed in the month of June last year? Better yet which US media outlet reported that...still can't think of anything? How bout this, whats the name of that damn NBA trophy anyway?

[mik3 1]

I've honestly had enough of Conor Oberst. This man is an admitted drug addict and an alcoholic. But he can tell his drone-like fans what they should believe when it comes to politics?

Those in glass houses.....

[Tricky4L 0]

Those in glass houses.....

Shouldn't sink ships

[hattrick74 0]

what, if anything, justify's a war? to me war is always an last option and should rarely be used, killing in anyway is never justifed IMO but is a necessary action in certian instances (self defense for one) i suport bush and co, voted for him, and am a christian, but i have a problem with anyone suporting capital punishment, but against abortion, this may get the topic on a whole different discussion, and i wouldnt be surprised if this is deleted...time will tell

[ajd91187 0]

Did anyone watch "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno" on Monday night? Their musical guest was absolutely terrible and inappropriate. They had a no talent ass clown on called Bright Eyes. This cocksucker had the balls to sing a factually incorrect protest song on top of the fact that he can't play the guitar for shit. Sorry about my language, but I missed it and had it Tivo'd. Just finished watching it. After hearing this absolute filth, I actually hate someone more than the French. And to all you anti-war dumbshits, if you are going to sing an anti-war song 1. Learn how to sing. 2. Learn how to play the guitar. 3. LEARN ABOUT FOREIGN POLICY AND TO WHAT THE WAR IS ABOUT BEFORE YOU SPREAD YOUR SHIT ON THE AIRWAVES! From now on, fuck Bright Eyes and boycott Jay Leno until he issues an apology for broadcasting this type of crap.

Why should he apologize? This is a free country isn't it? Maybe Leno agrees with the guy, and if he didn't, the guy still has the right to say whatever the f*ck he wants to, its his first amendment right. Just cause you don't agree with him doesn't mean that he's wrong.

And does anyone honestly know what this wars about? sure, it was under the guise of removing Saddam Hussein, but we'll never know what Bush was actually thinking (if he, indeed, does think...). For all we know, he was using 9-11 as an excuse to bring down someone that tried to have his father killed and for oil.

Chris probably isn't too far off. To compare Bush taking over Iraq for whatever reason (most likely oil) to Hitler trying to take over Austria for resources makes sense, does it not? Oh no, i said Hitler and America in the same sentence, i must be a Nazi right? For chrissake people, he was using it as an analogy, not saying Bush was a Nazi....

And to all you homophobes (and lets make it clear I am NOT gay), how the HELL is it any of your business? Why shouldn't they be able to marry? Bush doesn't agree with it cause his church doesn't agree with it.

Ahhh, the close mindedness of conservatives amuses me.

[Chiles05 0]

For those that wish that everyone would at least be supportive of the individual troops that are serving the country, regardless of your opinion on the military, there are people like Michael Crook who produces this website: http://www.forsakethetroops.info/

Obviously, this guy might be better off living somewhere else.

[Smith 0]

I will give my 2 cents, I don't agree with what that guy said, but in a country of free speech you get the good with the bad, he is aloud to have is own opnion. And on the SS issue think of this. Most teachers, public employes, maybe most really big unions do NOT pay into SS. Why do all other people have to? I give him credit for trying to change it. It is not the answer for retirement. But would should it not be? If I used all the money I buy into SS, and just inverst it into cd's I bet I would have alot more money when the time comes.

[warrior37 0]

just checked and bright eyes will not, i repeat will not be at the austin city limits music festival this summer in austin texas, hmmmm

[mack 44]

Wow, this thread turned into a total shitfest. I win the pool.

[mack 44]

I like how the US can't account for roughly $100 million they spent over there. At least someone's making a nice fortune out of this.

[warrior37 0]

atleast its not you

[mack 44]

Yeah, being a war profiteer really wouldn't sit well with me as much as it would with some people.

[Chadd 916]

And Chris, iraq was not all about oil.

So once the main threats of terrorist activites have been immobilized the U.S continue to run Iraq as a colonly, using it's resources to support their own interestes. It was a mere imperialistic invasion, like Hitler and Austria, if we take the nievty of Chamberlain out of the equation, Germany needed resources and people to help build the Third Reich, and so it went after Austria. A vague analogy, but the principle reamins the same.

There is no connection to imperialism or Hitler's assimilation of European nations. English colonialism is the only marginally apt comparison and I don't agree with that arguement either. The plan was to allow them to have elections and determine their own future.

On the whole issue of supporting troops; unless you are actually doing something to help them, your support means nothing. Sending care packages or helping families with members overseas are just some of the ways you can actively support the troops. To simply say, "I support them" is noble but essentially useless in the- grand scheme of things. The company my wife works for sent several packages over when one of their employees was called up to active duty. We donated things they wanted just because it was the only thing we could do to help them. Nobody made a big deal about it and we made their experience over there a little more tolerable.

[ponty 0]

Alight here is my two cents. It could offend some but topics like these always do.

Relgion:

Its wonderful for those who choose to communicate with God in this fashion. For some like myself I choose not to go in that direction as "man" gets involved as well as politics. For me what your relationship with God has nothing to do if you Catholic, Jewish ...ect. Heck going to church has nothing to do with it as well.

My issue with religion is the whole attitude of "if you dont do this your not right ... live like me or else ..." This whole country was built on DIFFERENT ideas and viewpoints. You may not agree with everything but embrase the differences.

This country is moving away from this and that bothers me.

Will people disagree with me on this. Sure ... I expect it. Its what this country is suppose to be built on.

On the War?

Support our troops no matter what. Your viewpoint on Bush and the war ... thats up to you.