Just an idea for a hockey product

[whbd18 0]

ogie,to patent something you have to think of a name for the product and then first see if the name is taken. Then you have to fill out a form and I think there is a fee(not sure though). Just google search for patenting a product.

[kovalchuk71 212]

ogie,to patent something you have to think of a name for the product and then first see if the name is taken. Then you have to fill out a form and I think there is a fee(not sure though). Just google search for patenting a product.

Yah, the patent costs a couple G's

[ktang 34]

Ill see what I can do....you might want to try getting one of those heat free welders if those even work....But ill try to make a design for you

Cool, I'll get you some dimensions later today. I have already thought how I can modify an old aluminum shaft (now I just have to get an aluminum shaft) and maybe even use wood inside the taper part for ease of the test mule as well as hoping it might aide in the feel.

If you are going to use wood in one of your prototypes, you could get a butt extension. Keep the original tenon the way it is, and fit that into the aluminum part that you are acquiring. Next to the tenon, sand / file / rasp / shave / chisel it down to tapered shaft dimensions.

[JR Boucicaut 3770]

The problem I foresee is that you have to make the aluminum flex the same as the shaft. Problem is, how do you make a 2.5 inch piece of aluminum flexible? Composite would be best for it for it to work as you can manipulate the flex or add a kickpoint in it. The flex point would be right where you cut the shaft - then it'd be rock-hard at the aluminum piece. Better use a cheap shaft - you'll snap it at the end.

[Kobe 0]

However, I think that this would really only work nicely for broken tapered ops's that have been cut to fit tapered blades. The added length to a tapered shaft would not be the 2-2.5 inches that you mentioned but rather about 6 inches (3 inch hosel + 3 inch tendon).

I did think about that. Not all standard blades have longer hosels, but you're right - most do. However, when I convert my Synnergy, I end up having to add 6 inches of but end to get it to the same length it was before. So, for me, this might be OK. I'll have to see.

I really don't mean to throw a wrench into your gears but I think that this is the crux of the problem with a device like this. There are no more retail standard blades in the market being manufactured with short hosels. As you said, the main purpose of the converter would be to add blade selection variety so this almost negates that benefit.

Almost nobody would buy something like this for a retail tapered shaft. Nobody would cut off another 6" off of the buttend (on top of what they've already cut to suit their height preferences) to use the converter. The much easier options would be to sell the tapered shaft and buy a standard one or just flip the shaft over if they're that concerned about costs. See it in the buyers eyes. If cost is the concern then why would they shell out money to buy a converter like this plus the added labor of having to cut the 6" off of their shaft when they can just flip the shaft over and install a standard blade at no extra financial cost? They would have to cut 3" off of one of the ends (probably the tapered end now since they're not concerned with that anymore) to make up for the hosel difference but it saves them the cost of the converter.

You would really have to come up with proof or some how convince the consumer that buying a device like this plus cutting 6" is much better than flipping the shaft over and cutting 3" off (at no cost). It just doesn't have to be better but much better in order to justify the cost of buying the device over the flipping method. There would have to be some sort of performance benefit (which I unfortunately do not see) to using the converter or some justification that the flipping method is a serious performance hindrance (like the flex point is totally messed up vs. using the converter and having a 3-piece flex point - again, it's hard for me to see a good justification here).

It's pretty much the same argument for a broken tapered ops shaft. Cutting 6" + the cost of the converter vs. flipping and cutting 3" at no charge. It might actually be even worse. Assuming that I am a consumer who does not know that much about equipment, I would almost demand that I know exactly where to cut my broken ops shaft to fit a device like this so that I don't screw up and feel "cheated" about buying the device. I guess most people would bring a broken ops it to their LHS and let them do it anyway but it really deters the whole "convenient and cost effective" purpose of the device when it says "bring it to a hockey shop and let them cut it for you" on the packaging. It's either that or include a manual with diagrams of all of the popular ops on where to cut them. This manual would of course have to be updated every equipment year assuming new ops's are released every year (which they pretty much are).

It's a tough sell but if you can make it work then more power to you.

[Ogie Oglethorpe 14]

ogie,to patent something you have to think of a name for the product and then first see if the name is taken. Then you have to fill out a form and I think there is a fee(not sure though). Just google search for patenting a product.

Actually, I did that (http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/howtopat.htm) found what kovalchuk71 already seems to know - it's costly.

If you are going to use wood in one of your prototypes, you could get a butt extension. Keep the original tenon the way it is, and fit that into the aluminum part that you are acquiring. Next to the tenon, sand / file / rasp / shave / chisel it down to tapered shaft dimensions

That's an interesting idea.

The problem I foresee is that you have to make the aluminum flex the same as the shaft. Problem is, how do you make a 2.5 inch piece of aluminum flexible? Composite would be best for it for it to work as you can manipulate the flex or add a kickpoint in it. The flex point would be right where you cut the shaft - then it'd be rock-hard at the aluminum piece. Better use a cheap shaft - you'll snap it at the end

Yep, not sure about the stress/flex factor. I plan to use it on a converted Response OPS (now shaft) to see how it works. If it breaks, I don't really lose anything. Worse that happens is it breaks a few inches off the shaft, then I just cut it up higher to take a regular shaft and/or give it to a kid to use.

I really don't mean to throw a wrench into your gears but I think that this is the crux of the problem with a device like this. There are no more retail standard blades in the market being manufactured with short hosels. As you said, the main purpose of the converter would be to add blade selection variety so this almost negates that benefit.

I'm not sure if it would or wouldn't. Only way to find out, is to try. BUT, yes, the kick point would be different and higher up. But, again, you'd be trading some performance (which is likely somewhat already lost if used on a converted OPS) for versatility/utility. BUT, I do happen to have a short hosel std blade, I could try both to see what the difference is.

Almost nobody would buy something like this for a retail tapered shaft. Nobody would cut off another 6" off of the buttend (on top of what they've already cut to suit their height preferences) to use the converter. The much easier options would be to sell the tapered shaft and buy a standard one or just flip the shaft over if they're that concerned about costs.

What's funny is, you mention flipping the shaft over - if they're willing to do that, they're sacrificing ALL benefits of the taper and kickpoint. At least with my idea, they get to keep some of it.

If cost is the concern then why would they shell out money to buy a converter like this plus the added labor of having to cut the 6" off of their shaft when they can just flip the shaft over and install a standard blade at no extra financial cost? They would have to cut 3" off of one of the ends (probably the tapered end now since they're not concerned with that anymore) to make up for the hosel difference but it saves them the cost of the converter

BUT, it's not JUST for converted OPS. It could just be a regular tapered shaft, you've broken the blade, and you want a different blade now... perhaps one that's in your closet....

You would really have to come up with proof or some how convince the consumer that buying a device like this plus cutting 6" is much better than flipping the shaft over and cutting 3" off (at no cost). It just doesn't have to be better but much better in order to justify the cost of buying the device over the flipping method.

There would have to be some sort of performance benefit (which I unfortunately do not see) to using the converter or some justification that the flipping method is a serious performance hindrance (like the flex point is totally messed up vs. using the converter and having a 3-piece flex point - again, it's hard for me to see a good justification here).

We're just talking $10 - again, you comment that there's some loss in performance, you lose EVERYTHING in the flip method (and have a weird handle shape to boot). Also, I'm not sure it'd be 6 inches or not (nor am I sure you'd have to cut the shaft - hopefully not, but that'd depend). If it's a real tapered shaft, then they may already have to have a long plug in it. The TFlex (with plug) is fine for someone who is 5ft 9, but anyone over 6ft has to add a longer plug. This might make that immaterial. AGAIN, it's not for everyone, but there'd be some who might be interested (and this isn't a scheme to get rich on - just something I've been toying with in my head). After all, if it cost $10, the profit margin would have to be HUGE and I'd have to sell a TON in order to make any sort of significant money.

I guess most people would bring a broken ops it to their LHS and let them do it anyway but it really deters the whole "convenient and cost effective" purpose of the device when it says "bring it to a hockey shop and let them cut it for you" on the packaging.

I don't really see it JUST being for converted OPS, but I REALLY don't see LHS's doing the cutting for the consumer, you're right (although, I wonder if LHS's ever put thought into taking money to convert OPS for their customers? Maybe $10/pop? Just thinking out loud. Not related to this idea, but just a wonder).

It's either that or include a manual with diagrams of all of the popular ops on where to cut them. This manual would of course have to be updated every equipment year assuming new ops's are released every year (which they pretty much are).

That's a good point. The manual was someone else's idea, but it's an interesting one too. Guess you could have some basic directions and a website with a password to check for updates? Not sure. Either way, that'd be tricky. I haven't really put much thought into that.

It's a tough sell but if you can make it work then more power to you.

Yeah, it'd be a small market thing (AT BEST) for sure. But, I want one (for myself), so I'm at least going to try just for grins and giggles if for nothing else.

[Kobe 0]

Hey like I said, more power to you if you're going to give it a go. I was just thinking out loud on a more larger scale about possible manufacturing. It's a great idea in theory but it's difficult to see it working in reality. As with the Oggie grips, it's a great idea for guys who are tall and already need an extension. I would love to try an Oggie grip but I wouldn't sacrifice cutting my shaft any further to keep my stick height preference. Your converter will indeed work nicely for those tall players who are looking to save some money on tapered blades. If the Oggie grips have been selling well then maybe this converter may be plausible if there is a large enough market (I guess they would be taller guys who have tapered shafts but want the selection of standard blades). You could somehow market it as having the performance of a z-bubble but with ANY tapered shaft. On the other hand, you would really have to prove one way or another that the inclusion of the converter to make the stick a 3-piece setup does not have any negative effects on performance. Good luck in finding a solution or some kind of middle ground. Keep turning those gears in your head and let me know how that prototype works out.

[Jason Harris 31]

As with the Oggie grips, it's a great idea for guys who are tall and already need an extension.  I would love to try an Oggie grip but I wouldn't sacrifice cutting my shaft any further to keep my stick height preference.

Kobe, I know this is an aside for this topic, but the main function of the Oggie Grip isn't as an extension.

It's designed to increase stickhandling and shot speed. The increased shot speed has been measured by radar, whereas the stickhandling is dependent on the player's current style. Those players who hold their pinky off the knob may find it uncomfortable, but friends who have used it during warm-ups -- and don't hold their pinky off the knob -- say it's more comfortable.

[Kobe 0]

I didn't say that the main function of the grip was an extension. I just said that it's not worth it for guys like me who don't need an extension to have to further cut their shafts in order to use the grip and stay with their preferred stick height. I would definately try one if I was a taller guy who usually needs an extension but I personally would not lop off another 3+ inches to what I've already cut in order to use one.

[Jason Harris 31]

I'm sorry, I misunderstood what you were implying previously.

I understand why you say it's easier for taller guys to test the Oggie without knowing whether it improves performance. At this point, I'm sold, but there's no doubt it's frightening taking the plunge into the deep end when we're talking about $150 sticks! :)

[jrhky36 1]

ogie

sent pm.

great idea. good luck with it.

[Ogie Oglethorpe 14]

As with the Oggie grips, it's a great idea for guys who are tall and already need an extension. I would love to try an Oggie grip but I wouldn't sacrifice cutting my shaft any further to keep my stick height preference

That's a good, and fair, point. Fortunately, I'm just a bit over 6ft, and tend to like my twigs a little longer anyway ;) but I agree that it's unlikely to be a big hit with those that would end up needing to cut the shaft to make it work.

[Jason Harris 31]

Fortunately, I'm just a bit over 6ft, and tend to like my twigs a little longer anyway ;)

Well, as a strapping lad just over six feet, it sounds like Ogie is a candidate for Oggie..... B)

[Ogie Oglethorpe 14]

I don't know if "strapping" would fit, but sagging might (sure, I'm in shape, it's just that that shape is round)

[Jason Harris 31]

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son, eh? :D

[Ogie Oglethorpe 14]

Yes, but what do you think about my pledge pin on my uniform?

[ktang 34]

How about putting the cut-up aluminum shaft piece around the end of the tapered shaft, instead of inside it? I think that's how the Stealth attaches its blade to its shaft.

If you do that, you would not have a stress point where your adapter flares from the inside dimensions of the tapered shaft all the way out to standard dimensions within a short length.

That's not a bad thought, however, since you are attaching it to a tapered shaft how do you get it to fit well (since the taper lengths differ, the shaft dimensions differ). Also, how would you get it to stay? Would glue be enough?

If it ever was marketed, one version should be sold as the "Composite Repair Kit" with directions for the average joe about where exactly to cut the stick and maybe a measuring device

Interesting....

I didn't read this set of exchanges before, so my belated ideas are:

About the "composite repair kit" to re-use the shaft: if the sleeve goes on the outside there would be no need to chisel away the inside (KISS factor). The measuring point for the cut would be at the dimensions matching the sleeve.

About different taper lengths = different taper angles: if the sleeve is only about the length of a standard tenon (about 2"), the angle won't make that much of a difference, and the hot-melt-glue might be strong enough to bond the sleeve to the end of the taper. However, if different tapered shafts have wall thicknesses that differ too much, or if a shaft is too concave or convex, this won't be one-size-fits-all.

[Ogie Oglethorpe 14]

However, if different tapered shafts have wall thicknesses that differ too much, or if a shaft is too concave or convex, this won't be one-size-fits-all.

That's a good point. Only way to assure it cater to a wider audience, then, is to have it go on the inside of the shaft.

[roadrunner 12]

Ogie, I've tried this about 3yrs ago with a broken Response and a Z-Carb.

This is what I did:

1.I took the tenon of a broken T-Flex graphite blade.

2.Inserted half of it at the end of the Response.

3.Inserted the other end to a cut of piece of graphite that I cut from the top end of a Z-Bubble because it was to long. Added tape to tennon.

4.Then I inserted the Z-Carb in the open piece of graphite.

My Opinion on it: It felt pretty sturdy but very weird. It felt dead and flexed alot on shots. It provided a decent shot. The reason why I ditched it was because the balance was very odd. I can only imagine how it would feel with aluminum parts. If they were to make one with Xn10 material maybe I could see the balance pan out.

Thoughtful idea nonetheless.

[kovalchuk71 212]

Your tennon wasnt long enough, you didnt have enough for the piece of z-bubble.....The wood pieces were gonna make are probably going to be around 6-8"

[Ogie Oglethorpe 14]

So, how did you "shim" the difference between the tapered tenon on the inside of the sr. hosel? Just tape, correct?

Did you add a screw or anything to make it sturdier than having just used tape? If not (and presuming I understand you correctly, i.e., that you used tape to make up for the difference in widths) then it's possible it flexed too much for two reasons: ONE, the tape isn't "firm" and didn't make up for the 3/16's difference in widths between tenons (i.e., it would wiggle a bit, and perhaps even shift because it's just tape). TWO: because you just used the tenon width, you would have had to put a large portion inside the cut end of the sr. part of the shaft. So, in other words, instead of being 3 inches inside the tapered shaft, there was only 1.5 inches. This could also account for extra flex/shifting (just thinking out loud).

HOWEVER, this might be interesting to try with a longer tenon. Someone else mentioned using a plug and shaving down the tenon to fit, then putting a piece of that in the peice of senior sized graphite extention. That would add to the length added to the shaft though (since you'd have to put a portion, say, 1 inch inside the tube), and I still question how you would get it to stay (not sure glue would be enough to hold a 1 inch section or not).

[LegoDoom 0]

The main problem I see is that you're losing 2" of taper and throwing off the balance of the stick because of the added weight at the end of the stick (although it's not that much, it's in a spot where you can feel small differences). But if you can get it to feel and perform right....

[LegoDoom 0]

The problem I foresee is that you have to make the aluminum flex the same as the shaft. Problem is, how do you make a 2.5 inch piece of aluminum flexible? Composite would be best for it for it to work as you can manipulate the flex or add a kickpoint in it. The flex point would be right where you cut the shaft - then it'd be rock-hard at the aluminum piece. Better use a cheap shaft - you'll snap it at the end.

Shouldn't the flex point be above the inserted tenon? With the shaft taking most of the force?

[Ogie Oglethorpe 14]

Theoretically, yes. However, what I think MIGHT happen is that due to the longer tenon, it will exert more force at the fuse point/point of connection (similar to what happens with a crow bar). That will cause the tenon to move more within the shaft (since the top part won't be as tight against the shaft wall due to it being wider). I don't know if this will cause more stress on the "conjoined area" or not.

I'll have to wait and see (buying a alumn shaft from Kovy and will tinker with it when it arrives. I already have the plans scratched out on a piece of paper, and will be ready to go when it gets here).

[Oggie Grip 0]

Well Ogie. You do have a killer name, but I think YOU missed a G in there somewhere................

Anyhow, I've got a few broken composites that we use for demos to show people the benefit of using Oggie grips as an extension for your broken composite. Depending on where (and when) a composite breaks, they are almost always too short to be used again on ice with your skates on, (I have one ultra shorty that was even too small for an Oggie Grip, but I still kept it for street hockey)

But most composites do break at the taper. For around 24 bucks, you can put an Oggie Grip on your broken composite and install a 15 dollar 2 pc blade and you’re good to go. I tell people who are skeptical to try an Oggie Grip that a perfect time to try is when you break your composite. Many kids also first try them because they grow too tall for their composite and they need an extension. And remember, you can always pull the grips out and use them on another stick later. Once most people try them, they have no trouble cutting their next new composite.

For me, I'm 5'-10â€, I have brought broken composites back to life in 2 ways:

When broken at the taper, I have cut the shaft at the frayed and broken area of the taper. I then measure the final cut area on the shaft with a dial caliper, and simply file down the insert area leaving a .005†clearance on the insert area of a new blade. (Actually, I mounted it in a milling machine and used a taper end mill to get the desired taper and final size, but a file will work just as well as long as you keep measuring) A little more work, but you keep the taper.

Also, I have cut the tapered end out altogether far enough back up the stick and installed a new non-tapered blade along with an Oggie Grip and it got me to the exact height as before. This is one way to address the adapter that you’re talking about. The stick may be a bit stiffer than before, but it is compensated by the flex built into the Oggie Grip. So in most cases, you eliminate the need for the adapter.

The Oggie Grips will give you a 7" extension for the Ergo and a 7 1/2" extension for the Classic if you use them to repair your broken composite.