Gloves

[Hooah4 12]

Just my 2cents but after trying the PG1's on for just a brief time they seem to be worth the $.

[Jason Harris 31]

Just my 2cents but after trying the PG1's on for just a brief time they seem to be worth the $.

Thanks for the compliment, Hooah, but I'm curious where you tried them on?

[Hooah4 12]

Chadd let me try on the ones you sent him. I was at his shop last weekend.

[Hooah4 12]

Just to clarify, the gloves make a great first impression, fit and style wise. I haven't used them. Although the L7's and the DR's were nice too. Maybe I'll just by a pair of each.

[puckmugger 0]

The ones from the manufacturers you like have to start at zero, as do the products from manufacturers you dislike.

Chadd,

There aren't really any companies I really dislike. Yes, I joking refer to the evil Nike Bauer empire, but that’s just my weird sense of humor. Admittedly I'm a little angry at Bauer for the Vapor line and I don't think Nike has quite figured out the skate thing yet. Nonetheless, I'm rooting for Bauer and Nike to improve. Nike has been a huge driving force in skate comfort. Frankly I think that Nike's protective line is excellent. I also think that the Supreme and 90 series skates from Bauer are still great products. I've given all of these items good reviews. I've also given very low ratings to CCM, Easton and other companies when they were due.

As far as starting at zero, that's not an easy thing to do. Suddenly I hate everything because I give it one star until we have proven durability and performance. I think you already know that I update my reviews based upon new information. I gave the Nike THG skates a four star rating when I first reviewed them and as durability issues became apparent I lowered the rating to two stars. It took almost a year of the item being on the market to reveal the fault in the V series skates. I liked my V series skates a lot when they first came out, but I felt horrible that people might have purchased them based upon my recommendation.

You bring up a good question though; how do you review something brand new? I cannot give a one star rating to everything on the market and wait to see. It often takes almost a year to realize the less apparent flaws in a product. Granted, serious defects rear their head in a couple of months or less, but durability issues take much longer. I’d certainly be open to any input on this.

Regards,

Scott

[Chadd 916]

That's why I don't value instant reviews. JR and I (and others) could easily review every product at the trade show in January but it's not responsible to do so.

I just don't see the need to push out a review on every product as soon as it comes out.

[Jason Harris 31]

JR and I (and others) could easily review every product at the trade show in January but it's not responsible to do so.

Well, only if you made it to every booth, eh?....... ;)

[Chadd 916]

JR and I (and others) could easily review every product at the trade show in January but it's not responsible to do so.

Well, only if you made it to every booth, eh?....... ;)

The free beer at the end of the day prevented me from hitting up every booth. ;) Plus my birthday was one of the days of the show and that didn't help matters.

[jimmy 194]

I made it to your booth, and I wasn't even drinking! :o

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

Ahh...Factory's booth. Very centrally located. I gulped like 6 of their beers in a minute.

Dude, I didn't even see your booth. Where were you?

[Jason Harris 31]

What's funny is I was next to Factory's booth!

They were on the corner but their tent had solid walls. Mission-Itech was on their left and I was on their right. I was probably peering around their wall waiting for another victim to walk down the aisle..... :lol:

[Chadd 916]

Ahh...Factory's booth. Very centrally located. I gulped like 6 of their beers in a minute.

Dude, I didn't even see your booth. Where were you?

I didn't get any from Factory. Around the end of the day they had some free swill... I mean bud light(?). The one night we had a couple and our Vaughn rep took us over to PF Chang's for dinner. The other night we had a bunch with Dr Kunz from t'blades, Scott from Fury, then more with my one rep. Then we made it out to the round bar in the casino and had a couple with our Mission rep and more with my the other rep again. I almost came home with a purple pimp hat, I just forgot to buy it.

Jason:

I swear I never saw your booth. It may have been because of the people gathered around the Factory bar, I mean booth. It was just too crowded and too much of a hassle to fight through there.

[kovalchuk71 212]

Factory as in the roller hockey wheels?

[Jason Harris 31]

Yes, they might have had roller wheels. ;)

People were periodically mulling around, and I thought there were giving away energy drinks, but somebody obviously discovered in an earlier life that a keg goes over well at tradeshows......

[Chadd 916]

Yes, they might have had roller wheels. ;)

People were periodically mulling around, and I thought there were giving away energy drinks, but somebody obviously discovered in an earlier life that a keg goes over well at tradeshows......

Just for the record (again) I am still disappointed at the utter lack of booth babes at the hockey trade shows. ;)

[DarkStar50 679]

I don't agree that there has to be a link between retail price and durability of the product when reducing weight and making the glove, stick, or skate as light as possible. The reason the glove, stick, or skate is made so light is for performance, not durability. It is an unfair attack against the manufacturer when the player complains that the item broke down or has worn out so quickly. The buyer has to know he is buying performance, not durability. I understand this as a seller in the pro shop and I let my customers know this. Don't buy Vapor XXX skates and expect 9-12 months on them if you pardon me, beat them to shit, never dry them out, and never even change the laces! The player's inability to take care of his gear is his responsibilty, not the manufacturers. The high end professional product is made that way for a reason. It is what the pros want and demand. If you are willing to accept that when you make the purchase, then be prepared for performance of the product at that level. So what if the pros get it "for free."

My Vapor XX skates are 14 months old and are in great condition playing twice a week. I pull the footbeds out and hang dry them after every skate. My OPS sticks last about 9 months and I don't ask for more than that. I know I would spend $150-$200 on woodies in that amount of time.

As a seller in the hockey industry, this whole idea of higher price = durabilty and longer usage is the customer's fantasy. It is not reality no matter how much you educate the customer or some reviewers.

[puckmugger 0]

:D That's great that your Vapors have lasted 14 months! I know a few people who have had theirs about that long and they still look good. However, I know a lot more who needed new skates in half that time.

When I'm reviewing, it is with Joe Regular in mind who expects a skate to last for at least a couple of years. I had a couple of customers who were perfectly happy to pick up a new pair of Vapors every six months because they liked them that much. I even had one kid who bought three pair before heading off to play Junior A hockey. But they were the exception rather than the rule.

Agreed, many people don't know enough to take their footbeds out and let their skates dry properly. This could be a major contributor to some of the Vapors failing in under a year. However, the when the average consumer buys a pair and they die in 9 months, all he knows is that his last pair of skates survived 6 years and he hasn't done anything different in taking care of them. Therein lies the problem.

Scott

[hockechamp14 0]

I see where you're coming from now on your v-force review.... I didn't realize the big deal in the skates dying in the amount of time they did. I managed to kill off my v-12's from march to july, just because of my skating, and how much I do skate.

[Jason Harris 31]

Just for the record (again) I am still disappointed at the utter lack of booth babes at the hockey trade shows. ;)

Prior to the show, I received an email from a modeling service in Vegas, so I gave them a call. Let's just say that I might have wanted to give you guys an X-Mas present, but not that nice of one.... <_<

[jimmy 194]

:D That's great that your Vapors have lasted 14 months! I know a few people who have had theirs about that long and they still look good. However, I know a lot more who needed new skates in half that time.

When I'm reviewing, it is with Joe Regular in mind who expects a skate to last for at least a couple of years. I had a couple of customers who were perfectly happy to pick up a new pair of Vapors every six months because they liked them that much. I even had one kid who bought three pair before heading off to play Junior A hockey. But they were the exception rather than the rule.

Agreed, many people don't know enough to take their footbeds out and let their skates dry properly. This could be a major contributor to some of the Vapors failing in under a year. However, the when the average consumer buys a pair and they die in 9 months, all he knows is that his last pair of skates survived 6 years and he hasn't done anything different in taking care of them. Therein lies the problem.

Scott

You are so correct. The problem is that adult buyers are USE to skates lasting 10-15 yrs or longer. They are in for a rude awakening when they see they need a new pair after 1 yr. We try to explain they are not as durable, but a lot of them don't understand. Besides you don't see in skate manufacturer's ads a mentions of less durability of their products. It's not fair to leave it up to the retailer to be the bearer of the bad news. When I say you have to dry skates, etc, the typical response is they never had to do that with their old skates.

[DarkStar50 679]

I believe it is the retailer's responsibility to educate the consumer. Don't sell him false expectations about the life of the skate. Tell him what he is buying, what the pros and cons are, and especially what the trade-offs are. If the customer wants the lightest and fastest possible, let him know what he is sacrificing. Sure, Bauer Custom 3000 lasted forever. They were built like tanks. And if the customer has been out of the skate market since 1993 it is your job to explain to him the new technology, the skate ovening, the open faced spread on the laces due to the extreme angle of the eyelets as compared to his Supreme 3000 from 12 years ago. If you educate him and make him understand what he is buying, then the responsibility is in the buyer's hands, not yours. Hey, tell the guy to take the footbeds out, that they act like a sponge and just soak up sweat which causes your skates to deteriorate. If he was never told these tips, that is why he comes to your shop in the first place: to get the knowledge he won't find on some hockeygiantmonkey.com. And if you set the guy straight from the start, he will probably come back for more gear because he knows that you know what you are talking about. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, educate the consumer!

Scott, Joe Regular needs to know what is going on when he buys product. If you review the product making it clear to everyone that not all players NEED Vapor XXX skates or an Easton Stealth Grip OPS at $200+, then you have done your job. Johnny Peewee AAA who weighs 80 lbs. with his gear on doesn't necessarily need V XXX skates but if they enhance his abilities, let him go with them. However, when his little brother walks in and he plays Squirt B, than V XXX are the last thing he needs. Don't over-match the player and the equipment. Part of our job in hockey retail is making the right marriage of the player and the equipment. That is all about taking the time to ask the right questions and make the player understand what level of protection he needs for the type of game he is in.

Just my two cents,

Peter

[jimmy 194]

Peter, you are correct, retailers play a big role, .... however it's hard to overcome all the advertizing hype. I tell EVERY youth (and their parents) they don't need a composite stick, yet nearly ALL of them get one, regardless of what we say. Similar with skates. We can talk till we are blue in the face.

[DarkStar50 679]

Yes sir, the marketing departments have the kids hypnotized with the product. Peewees and younger using OPS has killed the junior wood stick market. The big boys will break their OPS but the little guys will buy a new one long before the current one breaks. That is just a matter of keeping up with the Jones when they get the new OPS. I miss selling lots of wood sticks to little guys. There is something natural about learning hockey with a wood stick. Just to repeat the Paul Kariya quote again, "There is a whole generation of hockey players that will never use a wood stick."

Life goes on.........

[Chadd 916]

Just for the record (again) I am still disappointed at the utter lack of booth babes at the hockey trade shows. ;)

Prior to the show, I received an email from a modeling service in Vegas, so I gave them a call. Let's just say that I might have wanted to give you guys an X-Mas present, but not that nice of one.... <_<

Actually the show was on my birthday, does that help? ;)

[Chadd 916]

Peter, you are correct, retailers play a big role, .... however it's hard to overcome all the advertizing hype. I tell EVERY youth (and their parents) they don't need a composite stick, yet nearly ALL of them get one, regardless of what we say. Similar with skates. We can talk till we are blue in the face.

I couldn't agree more. Kids walk in knowing what they want, because the pros and the ads told them. It doesn't matter that the product won't work for them or is overpriced. The guys at the other shop said it's the best stick/skate/helmet ever. Sometimes mom and dad listen but they usually get junior whatever he wants, because a 12 year old has more equipment knowledge from seeing what pros wear or looking at ads in the hockey news than someone who sells gear for a living.