Joe's Last Draw

[chippa13 1844]

As for the negative stuff about Joe that's come out since, that is all just part and parcel of being dealt from the Bruins.  The Bruins management and media love to kick guys on their way out the door.  Dupont especially had an axe to grind with Thornton.

You're right about that, Chippa.

I get NESN on DirecTV, so I Tivo SportsDesk -- man, am I commercialized or what? :P -- and Dupont was on that night. I figured he'd be like most of us, expressing shock at the trade and saying the Bruins didn't get full value. Instead, he told good ol' Hazel that it was a "great trade for the Bruins." The thing that got me is he said the fans might really like Thornton, but the "trained hockey observer" could see Thornton was blah, blah, blah.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that he appeared to have a beef with Joe directly, although that's possible, but it was definitely at least an "I told you so about Joe."

Every time I see Duponts name associated with something lately he sounds like a jackass. During the lockout he ran some nasty columns that were pretty unprofessional.

I assume he totally sided with the owners?

He did coin JSNPA (Just Say No Players Association) so I think you can draw your conclusions from that.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Copied from the Boston Globe.  Guess he didn't catch it on tv afterall.

As for the negative stuff about Joe that's come out since, that is all just part and parcel of being dealt from the Bruins.  The Bruins management and media love to kick guys on their way out the door.  Dupont especially had an axe to grind with Thornton.

Is that all their was Chippa? This is how it unfolded as either him or his agent outlined it

He saw it on TV, called O'Connell and asked, Told Joe to go out to dinner, then called him and told him he was traded. So he heard it first, didn't get confirmation, then did later on.

I could just be screwing this up, but I remember something happened and he wasn't told by O'Connell. He called then went to dinner. It may have been a friend calling to tell him or something, but it wasn't right from him apperantly. I do remember he was out for dinner with his family when O'Connell did talk to him though.

[Chadd 916]

As for the negative stuff about Joe that's come out since, that is all just part and parcel of being dealt from the Bruins.  The Bruins management and media love to kick guys on their way out the door.  Dupont especially had an axe to grind with Thornton.

You're right about that, Chippa.

I get NESN on DirecTV, so I Tivo SportsDesk -- man, am I commercialized or what? :P -- and Dupont was on that night. I figured he'd be like most of us, expressing shock at the trade and saying the Bruins didn't get full value. Instead, he told good ol' Hazel that it was a "great trade for the Bruins." The thing that got me is he said the fans might really like Thornton, but the "trained hockey observer" could see Thornton was blah, blah, blah.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that he appeared to have a beef with Joe directly, although that's possible, but it was definitely at least an "I told you so about Joe."

Every time I see Duponts name associated with something lately he sounds like a jackass. During the lockout he ran some nasty columns that were pretty unprofessional.

I assume he totally sided with the owners?

Yeah and pissed on the NHL in general a few times. I believe he was one of those beating up the NHL for the whole Bertuzzi thing too.

[chippa13 1844]

As for the negative stuff about Joe that's come out since, that is all just part and parcel of being dealt from the Bruins.  The Bruins management and media love to kick guys on their way out the door.  Dupont especially had an axe to grind with Thornton.

You're right about that, Chippa.

I get NESN on DirecTV, so I Tivo SportsDesk -- man, am I commercialized or what? :P -- and Dupont was on that night. I figured he'd be like most of us, expressing shock at the trade and saying the Bruins didn't get full value. Instead, he told good ol' Hazel that it was a "great trade for the Bruins." The thing that got me is he said the fans might really like Thornton, but the "trained hockey observer" could see Thornton was blah, blah, blah.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that he appeared to have a beef with Joe directly, although that's possible, but it was definitely at least an "I told you so about Joe."

To me it has seemed like Dupont has been giving O'Connell a free pass on screwing up the defense before the season and focused all his ire on Joe. He has been pushing Joe out of town since before the playoff collapse against Montreal.

The thing that surprised me about Sullivan not getting the axe instead of shipping off Joe is the fact that Joe performed and played hard under the likes of Ftorek and Keenan. Complacency crept in under Sullivan's watch. Joe needs a coach that will challenge him and Sullivan is not that guy. Bet here is that Sullivan won't be the Bruins coach next fall.

[chippa13 1844]

Copied from the Boston Globe.  Guess he didn't catch it on tv afterall.

As for the negative stuff about Joe that's come out since, that is all just part and parcel of being dealt from the Bruins.  The Bruins management and media love to kick guys on their way out the door.  Dupont especially had an axe to grind with Thornton.

Is that all their was Chippa? This is how it unfolded as either him or his agent outlined it

He saw it on TV, called O'Connell and asked, Told Joe to go out to dinner, then called him and told him he was traded. So he heard it first, didn't get confirmation, then did later on.

I could just be screwing this up, but I remember something happened and he wasn't told by O'Connell. He called then went to dinner. It may have been a friend calling to tell him or something, but it wasn't right from him apperantly. I do remember he was out for dinner with his family when O'Connell did talk to him though.

I don't think so. The first whispers of the deal weren't out until around 9pm. I was actually watching the Sharks game and the announcers were speculating as to why Sturm, Primeau, and Stuart were all suddenly pulled from the lineup. They didn't mention any deal for Thornton until after the second period. NESN didn't confirm or break the story until around 9:45 that night.

After the Devils game, most around here assumed something would be done. The likely scenarios were Samsonov for a solid defenseman or that Sullivan would be canned, or a combination of the two. Nobody was talking about dealing the guy they locked up for 3 years.

[DarkStar50 679]

Green's responsibility as visiting team player is to have HIS stick down first. Madden was ready to go. Green was not.

Madden is supposed to allow the visiting player down first. Madden took the position away and caused the contact which got Green tossed.

Pardon the interuption: About the faceoff, this is what Pat told me last night.

1. There is no fast faceoff in the final 2 minutes of the third period and overtime.

2. The home team center can either put his stick down first or wait for the visiting team center to put his stick down. The visiting team center does not have the choice of waiting for the home team center to put his stick down. He should have his stick down first. Madden did nothing against the rules. Green was too slow to get ready.

[Eazy_b97 1]

That second rule doesn't seem very clear to me. How can the home team's center have the option of putting his stick down first or second, and the visiting team's stick must be down first regardless? I am interpreting it to mean, whenever the home center says lets go, then you go. Is that correct?

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

What he means is that if the home center wants to, he could be first to put his stick down - which is an option that they almost never choose.

[chippa13 1844]

Green's responsibility as visiting team player is to have HIS stick down first. Madden was ready to go. Green was not.

Madden is supposed to allow the visiting player down first. Madden took the position away and caused the contact which got Green tossed.

Pardon the interuption: About the faceoff, this is what Pat told me last night.

1. There is no fast faceoff in the final 2 minutes of the third period and overtime.

2. The home team center can either put his stick down first or wait for the visiting team center to put his stick down. The visiting team center does not have the choice of waiting for the home team center to put his stick down. He should have his stick down first. Madden did nothing against the rules. Green was too slow to get ready.

I think Pat better recheck his rulebook. It is correct that there is no 5 second rule enforcement in the last 2 minutes but there is no choice available to the home team center about being down before or after the visiting center. It is always supposed to be the visiting center down first followed immediately by the home center.

In the last two (2) minutes of regulation time or anytime in overtime, the linesman will still blow his whistle to initiate the face-off, but the five (5) second time limit will not be enforced, however, players must abide by the verbal directions given by the Linesman in his attempt to conduct a fast and fair face-off.

When the face-off takes place in any of the end face-off circles, the players taking part shall take their position so that they will stand squarely facing their opponent's end of the rink, and clear of the ice markings. The sticks of both players facing-off shall have the blade on the ice, within the designated white area. The visiting player shall place his stick within the designated white area first followed IMMEDIATELY by the home player.

Taken from the NHL rulebook.

[2048 0]

Outside of Torontonians who posted here in the summer that Joe was sick of Boston and wasn't going to re-sign there, there was no talk about him being unhappy in Boston until after the trade. Then, all of the sudden, it's all over the news that he was unhappy, had a poor attitude, and wasn't playing hard or effectively. Yet, as I said, one of the articles said it looked like he was alone in his car in tears after he heard he was traded.

We heard tons of Thornton wants out rumours over the summer and it was huge that he'd be a UFA very soon. It was a big surprise to hear of a 3 year deal. Not a "Foppa" or "Naslund" suprise either. I heard Thorntons agent that night and from what I saw of Joe the next day, he seemed EXTREMELY happy. Smiling ear to ear, discussing how nobody backed him up about the ribs, and he still put the blame on his shoulders, said he never had a good relationship in Boston, even as an 18 year old, etc.. I don't doubt he was upset at first, but he didn't seem upset when I saw him. He also didn't hear he was traded from the GM apperantly, he saw it on TV on his way out to dinner or something like that. I'm not saying he quit and stopped playing, but he didn't seem like a man who was enjoying himself out there.

Thornton was out to dinner in Boston with his parents, who were visiting from St. Thomas, Ontario, and were hoping to catch tonight's game against the Senators when O'Connell called Thornton to tell him of the deal.

Copied from the Boston Globe. Guess he didn't catch it on tv afterall.

As for the negative stuff about Joe that's come out since, that is all just part and parcel of being dealt from the Bruins. The Bruins management and media love to kick guys on their way out the door. Dupont especially had an axe to grind with Thornton.

Dupont's problem with Thornton was that he was captain and refused an interview or was very short after an important game.

[chippa13 1844]

You might be thinking about when Joe ducked out the backdoor after the pregame skate rather than meet the media before game 7 against the Habs. That didn't help matters but Dupont was all over Joe long before that happened.

[DarkStar50 679]

Green's responsibility as visiting team player is to have HIS stick down first. Madden was ready to go. Green was not.

Madden is supposed to allow the visiting player down first. Madden took the position away and caused the contact which got Green tossed.

Pardon the interuption: About the faceoff, this is what Pat told me last night.

1. There is no fast faceoff in the final 2 minutes of the third period and overtime.

2. The home team center can either put his stick down first or wait for the visiting team center to put his stick down. The visiting team center does not have the choice of waiting for the home team center to put his stick down. He should have his stick down first. Madden did nothing against the rules. Green was too slow to get ready.

I think Pat better recheck his rulebook. It is correct that there is no 5 second rule enforcement in the last 2 minutes but there is no choice available to the home team center about being down before or after the visiting center. It is always supposed to be the visiting center down first followed immediately by the home center.

In the last two (2) minutes of regulation time or anytime in overtime, the linesman will still blow his whistle to initiate the face-off, but the five (5) second time limit will not be enforced, however, players must abide by the verbal directions given by the Linesman in his attempt to conduct a fast and fair face-off.

When the face-off takes place in any of the end face-off circles, the players taking part shall take their position so that they will stand squarely facing their opponent's end of the rink, and clear of the ice markings. The sticks of both players facing-off shall have the blade on the ice, within the designated white area. The visiting player shall place his stick within the designated white area first followed IMMEDIATELY by the home player.

Taken from the NHL rulebook.

Chippa13,

Madden does not have to wait for Green. Green tried to delay the drop. Madden 's stick is on the ice, Pat instructs Green to put his stick down. Green is forfeiting any advantage he may have had by not putting his stick down first. Pat has 20+ years with NHL faceoffs and the rules as they are written. I'm positive he would win this discussion among any of us. You are correct: Madden does not have a "choice." However if he is first down, it is now Green's problem for NOT being first down, as Green would know by: a. his experience in NHL faceoffs and b. being the VISITING center in an end zone faceoff. I have no bones to pick with Travis Green. He just didn't perform his job correctly.

BTW, I was just in Barnes & Noble and read the NHL rulebook for faceoffs, as well!

[chippa13 1844]

The advantage is actually getting your stick down last because you already see how the other center is set up. Because of how Madden had his body over the dot, the linesman should have moved him back as Madden was encroaching. That is what Green was complaining about.

And what part of "the visiting player shall place his stick within the designated white area first" doesn't make sense?

[DarkStar50 679]

Give me your cell phone # and you can continue this discussion with Pat. The rules are clear to me.

[Chadd 916]

The advantage is actually getting your stick down last because you already see how the other center is set up. Because of how Madden had his body over the dot, the linesman should have moved him back as Madden was encroaching. That is what Green was complaining about.

And what part of "the visiting player shall place his stick within the designated white area first" doesn't make sense?

It's the same as with a line change. Home team has the opportunity to go last, that's where the advantage is. If the home coach makes a line change before the visitor, he doesn't get a second change. Essentially the same thing with the faceoff procedure.

[mack 44]

The fact he'd discuss this, a friggin' face-off rule, on a cell phone with someone he hasn't met is just creepy and sad.

[DarkStar50 679]

The fact he'd discuss this, a friggin' face-off rule, on a cell phone with someone he hasn't met is just creepy and sad.

Mack,

The idea that you think he may is just creepy and sad, too.

[mack 44]

Well, you keep mentioning his damn name enough it tends to make people think you'd do something like that. You're coming off like DeNiro in "The Fan" over this guy. Crushes are cool though, I remember mine from primary school.

[DarkStar50 679]

Well, you keep mentioning his damn name enough it tends to make people think you'd do something like that. You're coming off like DeNiro in "The Fan" over this guy. Crushes are cool though, I remember mine from primary school.

Mack,

Sorry if my "name dropping" upsets you or anyone on this forum. I'll keep it to a minimum from now on so as not to offend anyone.

The guy told me a story about something that I thought others may be interested in. It started a discussion that covered different areas. I thought the thread was interesting to anyone who cared to read it. I have no soapbox to stand on regarding this matter. Just trying to add something to MSH.

Again, my apologies if I offended you or anyone else.

[mack 44]

It's not the name-dropping, I've grown immune to people doing that and I'm not going to wet my panties over it, it's just that it was continuous and just seemed forced at times. The initial story was nice, I admit that, but then bringing it up over and over was just overkill.

[ktang 34]

I may be in the minority, but I liked the original story and the followups to the other members' questions and points of view. Commentators and reporters don't have access to on-ice officials and their rule interpretations and points of view.

[Chadd 916]

I may be in the minority, but I liked the original story and the followups to the other members' questions and points of view. Commentators and reporters don't have access to on-ice officials and their rule interpretations and points of view.

I think officials should be available to the media with one caveat, any abuse or blatant homer-ism and you lose the right to talk to the officials for at least a month.

[Vapor 0]

Especially Blaine Angus, I hate that guy, I think he has a not very hidden agenda agiasnt the rangers. GRG

[DarkStar50 679]

Back in the late 80s Angus and Mick McGeough were working OHL games. The first row fans in Kingston and Belleville used to ride those guys from the first period on. MM's on-ice act crosses a line most nights.

[Vapor 0]

yeah.... plus hes just ugly