Equipment like beer/cola wars?

[lerxst 0]

After being on the MSH for about 2 months now and have replaced ALL of my 12+ yr old equipment, I have to put this out there... I think NBH ,RBK/CCM have things tied up like Pepsi and Coke... in the sense that they get all the space and best placement in the stores, and they HOLD the LHS hostage!

Sadly, I replaced most of my gear with Bauer (Vapor XX Skates, XXX gloves, Vapor 10 Shoulder, Vapor & Koho Elbow, Louisville & Koho Shin, Bauer 6000 pants).

I wish that I had more time to research what I wanted... originally I wanted Mission skates, but here in Pittsburgh (@ Peranis), you could only find inline... So I went with Vapor XX's over RBK 7k's... a nice skate at a decent price, but would have liked to been able to consider Mission's and KOR's.

Wish I had looked at MIA and Sande gloves, my XXX's are nice, but are already showing wear... my 6000 pants are showing wear, and I've had 2 hip pointers already with them. I'm eyeing the Salming Protector Lite's for a 2nd pair for games (eBay)... And probably get some custome gloves in the future.

LHS'ers, Thoughts?

[jjtt99 0]

In most cases you have to go out of your way to get equipment that's not made by Nike/Bauer or Rbk/CCM. And that's just they way they like it as they have huge distribution channels -- just like Coke and Pepsi.

Smaller guys need something to get a firm foothold on an aspect of the market. Most of the time it requires innovation, but every once-in-a-while a smaller guy can get a piece of the market. Just look at Easton and sticks or Eagle with gloves.

The big will get bigger, the small will grow with innovation, it's the ones in the middle that tend to be at the greatest risk.

[jimmy 194]

One problem is that many big companies will not let smaller retailers sell their gear, so you have a choice, Peranis or nothing. The other problem is many smaller companies make great stuff, but the masses are reluctant to buy the stuff because it's not "CCM or Bauer", so retailers won't stock it. Too risky. Third problem is there is just too many hockey companies and too much equipment on the market that it is impossible to stock, every brand every model.

[lerxst 0]

So, for the smaller mfg's, does it make sense to do business direct, especially if they are doing things like custom gloves, etc.?

[jimmy 194]

So, for the smaller mfg's, does it make sense to do business direct, especially if they are doing things like custom gloves, etc.?

Not really. best to convince your LHS to carry their product. Companies that deal direct will scare LHS from carrying their products.

[ambro 0]

I think it would, and that's why companies like Sande and MIA do their business with custom gloves direct. That's just for custom stuff though.

I agree with jimmy that if it's a small company but not custom, a retailer would be your best bet.

[lerxst 0]

How do you convince an LHS, that has their space full of NBH, RBK/CCM, then 2nd tier Easton?

So the market dynamics that apply are:

Online = Biggest fish > Volume, no service

Big LHS = Big fish > Some volume, some service

LHS = Low volume, more service.

I guess the Sande/Salming/MIA type of Mfg needs to find the LHS, and maybe a Big LHS that is willing to take a shot, or is pissed at the big 2.

Kind of like Microbrews...

[Jason Harris 31]

So, for the smaller mfg's, does it make sense to do business direct, especially if they are doing things like custom gloves, etc.?

When a smaller company goes direct, all sales of their products come about due to their efforts. Whereas when they sell to retailers, the number of people selling their products is vastly increased. Given there are close to 2000 stores in the US alone, it's easy to see why the ultimate goal is to have stores carry the products.

It's just sometimes difficult for retailers to feel confident that their investment in a newer brand will prove profitable. At the tradeshow in Boston I remember one retailer in particular who sort of summed up the aprehension. He picked up one of the sticks and said, "I really like that stick....But I'm just worried that players don't want to try something without ABC written on it."

After going back and forth, I finally said to him, "Did you like the feel of that stick when you picked it up?"

"Yeah, sure...."

"Well, don't you think your customers may have the same reaction?"

When I put it that way, he agreed it was worth bringing in a couple of sticks as a trial. Prior to that, he was scared he would be tying up capital that could be making profit if he bought something else.

[Jason Harris 31]

I guess the Sande/Salming/MIA type of Mfg needs to find the LHS, and maybe a Big LHS that is willing to take a shot, or is pissed at the big 2.

Actually, I've found my niche by accident.

Some of the manufacturers have minimums that are too high for smaller retailers, so those retailers are forced to settle on smaller companies. What's funny is when they call a couple of weeks later with a bit of excitement that the product is selling well, because in some ways they really were settling and they became pleasantly surprised to find the unknown brand had good quality.

[jimmy 194]

No minimums is a good thing. I would have booked Hefter but their minimums were too high. I was reluctent to carry Salming, having been burnt by some off-brands in the past. But for some strange reason, customers took to the brand. Getting them to even pick it up is the first hurdle. Once they do that, if it's a good product it will sell.

[hockeyherb 1]

I know what it's like because my LHS is the ONLY place in town that sells hockey equipment, and if you don't want Bauer, you have a very small selection outside of that. I looked at sticks the other day and they had a total of THREE Mission M-1 and that was it versus a couple hundred other sticks, mostly Bauer but some Sherwood, Easton.

I wonder why hockey resellers don't go the route of the golf sellers where they have some demo days to let guys try out some new products. (maybe they do, but I haven't heard of it.)

So a rep from Salming say (since I see him on the boards a bit) would rent some local ice time, bring out a selection of his sticks, get a couple of goalies out and then let guys come in and try out new stuff. I find even when I buy the Bauer stuff I don't get to try it out, so I take a lark on a $100-$150 stick to see how it is??? Maybe more guys would actually buy some higher priced equipment if they could actually try it somewhere.

[jjalb29 0]

Our findings in our LHS have been that if people are going to spend that kind of money they don't want to take a chance and not like what they bought. Which makes all the sense in the world. They want something that works for them.

Then you have to look at it, how am I going to get somebody to use these sticks? NBH, CCM/RBK, and Easton have no problem they can show up to a demo skate with 40 sticks to let people use. They did it for us, brought a full run of all models of skates, 30 or 40 sticks, and XXX gloves for everyone. That may be harder for smaller companies to do.

[Bauer_freAK 0]

when i go to my LHS to buy something new,

I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I WANT...

before I don't know what I want,

I don't go to my LHS...

In Germany no LHS has really a premonition (?!) about

what they're talking about, except one...But just the owner

can tell you something productive, BUT just about easton hockey/ Rheingold..

Rheingold = German Retailer for Mission, Itech, Easton and eagle...

and that's what it is...

these Rheingold Company's are 99,9% of his inventory...

70% from that 99,9% are easton products...

[All Torhs Team 0]

So a rep from Salming say (since I see him on the boards a bit) would rent some local ice time, bring out a selection of his sticks, get a couple of goalies out and then let guys come in and try out new stuff. I find even when I buy the Bauer stuff I don't get to try it out, so I take a lark on a $100-$150 stick to see how it is??? Maybe more guys would actually buy some higher priced equipment if they could actually try it somewhere

I think youir on to something. If there could be a big company to start this off, say bauer ccm mission or easton. Let it be sort of first 100 in get to test it out? We all know it doest cost alot to make these sticks, alot of money goes into advertisement. The only problem is that during this session people will possibly purposly break a stick or do something to it so the company can not sell it. I would deffidently like to see something like an open skate, or an organized practice concentrating on stick work and shooting for sticks.

[chippa13 1844]

What you really need is a hockey expo for consumers. If they opened up the expos they do have to the public instead of just industry folks, then smaller companies would have a better chance of getting noticed by Joe Public. Heck, you could have a little shooting range where people can try out the latest sticks, maybe a sheet of synthetic ice for skate demos, all kinds of stuff.

[althoma1 575]

The Source for Sports in London, Ontario has a shooting area set up near the back of the store. There's a plastic surface to shoot on, a net, a bunch of pucks and a wide variety of demo sticks. There's enough room to stick handle a bit (minimal) and enough room to take a few shoots. Most of the sticks they had in the demo room were Bauer/Nike and Easton - it would've been nice to see an even wider variety of sticks in there, but I liked the demo concept.

If a customer could try a lesser known stick from a smaller company and compare it head to head with the more popular sticks they'd be more likely to give them a shot. Stores wouldn't have to carry a lot of inventory initially - just a few demo sticks and then special order for those interested. If there wasn't interest they could drop those sticks, if there was they could stock the store with them.

[stickfixchaska 0]

What you really need is a hockey expo for consumers. If they opened up the expos they do have to the public instead of just industry folks, then smaller companies would have a better chance of getting noticed by Joe Public. Heck, you could have a little shooting range where people can try out the latest sticks, maybe a sheet of synthetic ice for skate demos, all kinds of stuff.

Minnesota has the biggest consumer expo in the country. Its been around for 17yrs. It takes place at the Boys State Highschool Hockey Tournament. March 10th and 11th at the River Center Expo Hall, next to the Xcel Center.

I'll be their in my Stick Fix Booth. If any MSH members stop by, I'll hook you up with a nice discount on a repair or an Itech Cage that I was able to get a hold of.

Ask for Chris.

[Jason Harris 31]

What you really need is a hockey expo for consumers.  If they opened up the expos they do have to the public instead of just industry folks, then smaller companies would have a better chance of getting noticed by Joe Public.  Heck, you could have a little shooting range where people can try out the latest sticks, maybe a sheet of synthetic ice for skate demos, all kinds of stuff.

Are you aware of the Hockey Expo New Englad, Chippa? You've pretty much nailed what the format will be with interactive displays. The inaugural show will be at the DCU Center during the NCAA regionals on March 24th and 25th.

Hockey Expo New England

[devilsrule711 0]

this is one of those shows that you get top see all the new stuff right? (noob to the trade show world)

[Jason Harris 31]

Yes, along with a shooting gallery, deck hockey, box hockey, the Stanley Cup and other HHOF artifacts.

[chippa13 1844]

What you really need is a hockey expo for consumers.  If they opened up the expos they do have to the public instead of just industry folks, then smaller companies would have a better chance of getting noticed by Joe Public.  Heck, you could have a little shooting range where people can try out the latest sticks, maybe a sheet of synthetic ice for skate demos, all kinds of stuff.

Are you aware of the Hockey Expo New Englad, Chippa? You've pretty much nailed what the format will be with interactive displays. The inaugural show will be at the DCU Center during the NCAA regionals on March 24th and 25th.

Hockey Expo New England

I knew I was onto something.

[mccaff 0]

A consumer trade show is a long overdue event for hockey. It's too bad the New England one is in Worcester though, unless you're also going to the regionals it's an out of the way destination. Good start though.

As far as having the ability to make an appearance at these types of shows with demo equipment goes, every company with any kind of intelligence should know the select markets in which hockey is popular. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out and it's a necessary investment for survival or success. It's also short money if you have something innovative that just needs exposure.

It's a win for LHS's too. Why buy inventory to see if people like something when you can sniff out a product's popularity by seeing their reaction at shows like these? If you've ever seen a LHS go out of business then you know the carnage of unsold crap, the less you have of it the better off you'll be.

[hockeyherb 1]

A consumer trade show is a long overdue event for hockey. It's too bad the New England one is in Worcester though, unless you're also going to the regionals it's an out of the way destination. Good start though.

I agree that it's a good start. I live in Texas, not exactly the hotbed of hockey but if there were a good show in Dallas I'd probably go visit it.

[Chadd 916]

No minimums is a good thing. I would have booked Hefter but their minimums were too high. I was reluctent to carry Salming, having been burnt by some off-brands in the past. But for some strange reason, customers took to the brand. Getting them to even pick it up is the first hurdle. Once they do that, if it's a good product it will sell.

The minimums and programs that the big guys have, require shops to spend so much money to get the products they want or to reach higher discount levels that they often don't have money left to spend on other brands.

The best things a small company can do would be:(in my opinion)

1. Don't require large commitments on intial orders

2. Allow shops to make a decent profit on intial orders AND follow up orders

3. Don't sell to big online stores, it's like opening up a competitor to every one of your other dealers

4. Don't open every shop in every town, your dealers need to have some exclusivity

5. Keep your profit margins low to make the product more attractive to dealers, if the price of your stick is the same as a top end stick from a better-known brand you won;t get people into your product as quickly

[hip check 0]

Chadd:

if the price of your stick is the same as a top end stick from a better-known brand you won;t get people into your product as quickly

But there has to be some scale - and in most cases it's price - showing that a specific model is on par with a competitors model. That's not always correct, but how it's perceived.