black fighters

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

I understand what you are trying to say and trust me, if there were one person on here who would be offended, it would be me.

Is there racism in hockey? You bet there is. I've lived it.

[Hockeyman9621 0]

Everyone who is saying this is racist is making it racist. He noticed something about the NHL and dicussed it. This IS NHL discussions. I'm not black, but I honestly don't see the big deal. If we had an open discussion about white players in basketball, where there is the same type of minority, people wouldn't get all wierded out and call it racist.

[cause4alarm 7]

Once again I apologize for the awkward phrasing. If I were to rewrite it, I would have said what Chadd said:

The percentage of black players who are enforcers seems to be abnormally high.

Is this true or just (my) misperception?

It obviously caused much confusion, but I tried to carefully choose my words in a manner so as not to be construed as hate speech. I have never implied that black people are inherently violent. Those weren't my words. If you want, read them again and tell me if you still disagree.

If you really wanted to examine this issue, you could perhaps start by tallying the goals scored by the players mentioned and calculate what proportion they represent of the total goals scored by all players (by year, or over several years), then do the same thing by counting the number of fighting majors assessed, and then compare the percentages. I don't have the time or resources right now to do that. (edit: This method still wouldn't be very accurate since it doesn't even consider that each players' fighting/goal-scoring frequencies differ.)

However, soon after I logged off following my last post I realized what The Playoff Beard and Chadd (and others) pointed out--that those results would be inconclusive due to lack of credibility (data).

Many of you protested that this was a waste of time, but for me it was worthwhile and I appreciate all your input.

----------

Another note, I wondered, "What makes the hockey highlight reels every night?" It's the goals and the fights. Of the players I listed, the guys who consistently light the lamp are Iginla and Carter. The ones who have made their names by dropping gloves are Mayers, Brashear, Laraque, and McCarthy. In terms of bodies, the latter group outnumbers the former group 2 to 1. Does it mean that on a given night when I see a black guy in the NHL there's a double chance that he's in a fight rather than putting one in? Not exactly, but perhaps that's one of the reasons why I originally thought that a disproportionate share of black guys had the role of enforcer. Moreover, non-goal scoring, non-fighting black players might also get less fanfare because of this.

Regarding the comment about Russian players, personally I never really had a problem forgetting that there were plenty of Russians in the league who didn't have the flash that the more famous ones did.

[The Playoff Beard 0]

Another note, I wondered, "What makes the hockey highlight reels every night?" It's the goals and the fights. Of the players I listed, the guys who consistently light the lamp are Iginla and Carter. The ones who have made their names by dropping gloves are Mayers, Brashear, Laraque, and McCarthy. In terms of bodies, the latter group outnumbers the former group 2 to 1. Does it mean that on a given night when I see a black guy in the NHL there's a double chance that he's in a fight rather than putting one in? Not exactly, but perhaps that's one of the reasons why I originally thought that a disproportionate share of black guys had the role of enforcer. Moreover, non-goal scoring, non-fighting black players might also get less fanfare because of this

I hear you, this is probably not uncommon thinking. I definitely thought the same thing when I was younger, and saw black people playing hockey. Heck, Cedric the Entertainer made a joke about it. I'm glad it was just a question, everyone on these boards are so nice.

[The Playoff Beard 0]

I understand what you are trying to say and trust me, if there were one person on here who would be offended, it would be me.

Is there racism in hockey? You bet there is. I've lived it.

JR there is definitely racism in hockey. I've lived it also, even as a beginner, in Liberal ass Northern California. I've gotten basketball jokes and WAY worse, it's funny how quiet people are when you get at them after the games.

[J-Shera 0]

Ray Emery doesn't fight, lol.

[Deathmoves 0]

I understand what you are trying to say and trust me, if there were one person on here who would be offended, it would be me.

Is there racism in hockey?  You bet there is.  I've lived it.

JR there is definitely racism in hockey. I've lived it also, even as a beginner, in Liberal ass Northern California. I've gotten basketball jokes and WAY worse, it's funny how quiet people are when you get at them after the games.

I have experienced a few racist comments in hockey but nothing serious. Mostly just dumb jokes that idiots on my team though would be funny at the time. Now that I have got to know them a little better they know where the boundaries are.

Back on the subject.........

Anson Carter made a statement quite some years ago about black players in general.

"Black players are scorers. Black players are checkers. Black players are enforcers. Black players are tough, stay-at-home defensemen. We have different roles on a hockey club. Black players are bringing different things to the table, which means that black players are the same as everyone else."

Here is an article I read a few months back which I think should clear up a few questions.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmhockey1.html

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

Very good book.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/189466358...glance&n=283155

[gavin 0]

Thanks guys this has become more informative as it goes on. I don't have much to say what has not been said but... Anson Carter is the MAN!!! :D

[Quintin 16]

Anson Carter is definitely THE MAN and without a doubt, has the coolest hair to ever grace the NHL.

I agree with JR. Racism in hockey does exist and trust me, it's not pretty...

[Trippingblue 1]

Habs fans throwing bananas and making monkey noises whenever black players would touch the puck...

--nick--

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

They did it to Weekes back in 02 I think and no one else, that was extremely stupid if you asked me.

[Eazy_b97 1]

I think they gave Bashier a rough ride.

[j8Zt8r 0]

I understand what you are trying to say and trust me, if there were one person on here who would be offended, it would be me.

Is there racism in hockey? You bet there is. I've lived it.

JR - I quoted you just to add to this string.

First off, Racism is everywhere and in every sport.

I get to see this issue a little differently. For the record, I am white. My mother remarried a great guy who just happens to be pigment enhanced and I know have 2 younger brothers that are melato(mixed) who both play. The older of the 2 has been called the N word a couple times on the ice. I was there the second time, he threw off his gloves and chased the kid down and threw several punches as he was getting the other kids helmet and cage off of him. He was ejected from the game and given a 1 game suspension for fighting. Luckily, 1 of the refs heard the white trash boy say it and the kid was kicked out of the league for the rest of the season. The younger brother just turned 15, he has not really complained about much of anything yet. The kids that play seem to be more oblivious to it.

The parents on the other hand are a different story. We will regularly hear parents in the stands throwing out racial slurs about them. Hopefully this mentality does not rub off too much.

Hockey has prodominantly been a white mans sport. It has been evolving as popularity has grown and we are now getting a mix of great players involved.

And Mayers and Slavador are not enforcers. They are definate role players who will drop them when need be. Mayers is fast as can be and a great forechecker. His problem is he has hands of stone so he gets a checking role. Salvador is a hard hitting stay at home D which he does well for a small salary.

[tjobity 0]

Ray Emery doesn't fight, lol.

You're joking right?

http://media.putfile.com/Andy-Chiodo-vs-Ra...ry-Goalie-Fight

[Eazy_b97 1]

It's because he's from the mean streets of Hammertown.

[Fonya 0]

I dont have anything to add to the topic but I agree with one poster about the comment of white people in basketball. I think everyone that was saying the TS was racist is wrong. I think it is very clear through his posts that he was trying to be anything but racist. I dont think anyone would be in a fit if there was a topic on why black players in the NBA jump higher than white players or something like that.

[warrior37 0]

wow, ray emery is a bad ass, i have nothing but respect for a tendy when they drop them 1-on-1 with a player, wow

[cause4alarm 7]

And Mayers and Slavador are not enforcers.

Based on what little I previously knew about Mayers, I didn't think he was a known fighter. But according to hockeyfights.com, he's tied for 6th this season with 15 fights.

----------

And if anybody still cares about irrelevant the irrelevant statistics and measures I was going on about earlier...

Instead of using goals as a measure against fighting majors, it would be more accurate to use average time on ice, a statistic that may not have been recorded before the 2002-3 season. Also, if penalties rather than fighting majors is used, one might also have to take into account the player's position to account for any positional factors--for example if defensemen are more prone to getting penalties than forwards.

This could be considered a separate topic as it has less to do with the topic of race/racism and more to do with how to approximate a player's enforcer rating regardless of race.

[Hockeyman9621 0]

It's because he's from the mean streets of Hammertown.

You gotta watch your back in STEEL CITY.

[Hidious 0]

I think the constation that a disproportionate number of black NHLers are fighters is right. But i think posting it as a topic is wrong. We all realized it but there is no need to ask other their opinions about this fact.

And i think it's really impressive that you manage to find 3 Emery fights, tjobity!

[Chadd 916]

I think the constation that a disproportionate number of black NHLers are fighters is right. But i think posting it as a topic is wrong. We all realized it but there is no need to ask other their opinions about this fact.

And i think it's really impressive that you manage to find 3 Emery fights, tjobity!

By refusing to discuss problems or percieved problems, they will continue. As long as people are willing to discuss issues like these in a mature, reasonable manner, then these types of topics can be good. The reality is there are black players who are scorers, floaters, checkers and fighters, just like any other demographic of hockey players.

[RadioGaGa 162]

I think they gave Bashier a rough ride.

That wasn't because he is black...that's because he sucks!

[Chadd 916]

I think they gave Bashier a rough ride.

That wasn't because he is black...that's because he sucks!

Montreal has some of the worst fans in the league. They also have some great knowledgable fans, but they have a large number of really bad ones too.

[DarkStar50 679]

It seems to me that a disproportionate number of goalies in the NHL are from Quebec? Am I wrong?..............

JK.........