Calls getting more lax?

[mdamson 0]

Do you think the refs are letting up on the "new standards of conduct" lately? It seems like for the first two weeks the refs were calling it according to the new standards. Play was slowed a lot as the calls were made. They called it this way for about two weeks, and now it seems like it's back to the old standard. It's almost as if they swallowed their whistles, as I haven't noticed that the players have changed their styles. In Canada it's even worse, as my daughter is now competing in a Rememberance Day Tournament, and in four games, I think I have only seen 17 penalties total called, and it's not like there haven't been penalties, it's just they aren't making the calls. The same goes for the games in the States. Does anyone else notice this trend?

[djinferno 2]

yep, there laying off, hopefully, the news reporters get on it so Bettman starts making calls...

[hockeymom 2]

I wouldn't say it has been a trend to relax enforcement. More that calls have been VERY inconsistent. You play the first five minutes to "feel" out how things are going to be called and then take it from there. So in one weekend, Friday's game is called to new standards and Saturday's game is old standards.... very confusing.

There have been some regional differences as well. In the Toronto area, the standards, by and large, are being enforced. Perhaps, in girls' hockey, this is due to the proximity to the OWHA. Outside Toronto you simply can't predict it. My daughter has had some games that were brutal by "old standards" let alone "new standards". This certainly was the case in a tournament she played in this weekend... nothing was called.

I was speaking with someone from the OWHA and they reminded me that there are 4 different Ref Associations in Ontario with different levels of attitude about compliance to the standards. And that, with regards to girls' hockey, a ref who works mostly boys' contact hockey tends to let more slide than refs who work mostly girls' hockey.

[Chadd 916]

Several rinks in the Philly area have told refs that if they continue to call too many penalties, they will no longer work games in those rinks. Games are taking "too long" and rink managers don't like to have schedules screwed up. Since USAH has no authority over the rinks, there is nothing they can do.

[Hawkeye 0]

Several rinks in the Philly area have told refs that if they continue to call too many penalties, they will no longer work games in those rinks. Games are taking "too long" and rink managers don't like to have schedules screwed up. Since USAH has no authority over the rinks, there is nothing they can do.

That's what happened in our men's league. The first two weeks the averge game time was 2 hours with a quick game just over 1:30 and the longest 2:20. At least it's the last ice tiime for the night but we got a late start because of ice before us.

Penalites are still called but about 50% of what they used to be

[hockechamp14 0]

The junior players can't get away with mugging people anywhere besides the front of the net now.

Whatever happened to running time third periods anyhow?

The moral is that youth hockey teams play too many games and don't practice enough these days. Less games = better players = fewer problems.

[Trooper 8]

First of all, I can't believe they were calling the standard in men's league. You're out there to have fun, you aren't getting drafted in the NHL, just play.

Second, USAH has dropped the ball on both the coaches wearing helmets "rule" and the standards of enforcement rule. Calls have certainly dropped off, except now you have a normal call and then a "new standard" call thrown in every once in a while. The inconsistency has become even greater now both within the same game and certainly from one crew to another.

[hockechamp14 0]

Second, USAH has dropped the ball on both the coaches wearing helmets "rule" and the standards of enforcement rule. Calls have certainly dropped off, except now you have a normal call and then a "new standard" call thrown in every once in a while. The inconsistency has become even greater now both within the same game and certainly from one crew to another.

Exactly, the calls will change period to period. I'm not going to try and skate through a guy if I know he's not going to get an interference call. Weather you're backchecking or forechecking, moving your feet is what drew penalties the first month of the season.

Now the refs ignore half the stickwork and when the players start to revert to last season, and get a penalty for something legal last year it's frustrating for everyone.

[Gongshow11 1]

definately not. Last night in habs game a sens player was barerly touched by the habs players stick, and the habs player hand one hand on the stick, i think it was called hooking. how do you hook a guy with one hand on the stick, i dont care if you're popeye

[hockechamp14 0]

definately not. Last night in habs game a sens player was barerly touched by the habs players stick, and the habs player hand one hand on the stick, i think it was called hooking. how do you hook a guy with one hand on the stick, i dont care if you're popeye

We're talking about USAH and HC, not NHL.

And you can hook someone with one arm on your stick, easily. If you're interfering with them moving or handling the puck, it's an easy hooking call.

[Gongshow11 1]

o ok UASH and HC, my bad sorry

[Chadd 916]

First of all, I can't believe they were calling the standard in men's league. You're out there to have fun, you aren't getting drafted in the NHL, just play.

Second, USAH has dropped the ball on both the coaches wearing helmets "rule" and the standards of enforcement rule. Calls have certainly dropped off, except now you have a normal call and then a "new standard" call thrown in every once in a while. The inconsistency has become even greater now both within the same game and certainly from one crew to another.

beer leagues are the perfect place for the new standards. I don;t know how many times I've seen violence escalate to the point of fights or match penalties simply because officials didn't call the stickwork that created the problems. Penalize the meatheads and the game is better for everyone.

[hockechamp14 0]

First of all, I can't believe they were calling the standard in men's league.  You're out there to have fun, you aren't getting drafted in the NHL, just play.

Second, USAH has dropped the ball on both the coaches wearing helmets "rule" and the standards of enforcement rule.  Calls have certainly dropped off, except now you have a normal call and then a "new standard" call thrown in every once in a while.  The inconsistency has become even greater now both within the same game and certainly from one crew to another.

beer leagues are the perfect place for the new standards. I don;t know how many times I've seen violence escalate to the point of fights or match penalties simply because officials didn't call the stickwork that created the problems. Penalize the meatheads and the game is better for everyone.

I don't know what's so hard or "unfun" about keeping both hands on your stick and your stick on the ice.

[hockeymom 2]

Well I do agree with Trooper's point about the inconsistency of calls within the same game - and certainly from crew to crew.

Saw frustration with the inconsistency and uncalled stick work escalate into a 3rd period fight this past weekend.... in Bantam GIRLS' hockey. Have never seen that happen before.

This is becoming a real problem and I think the CHA and USAH need to take their thumbs out of their bums and sort it out. One way or another things need to get some consistency.

[Trooper 8]

First of all, I can't believe they were calling the standard in men's league.  You're out there to have fun, you aren't getting drafted in the NHL, just play.

Second, USAH has dropped the ball on both the coaches wearing helmets "rule" and the standards of enforcement rule.  Calls have certainly dropped off, except now you have a normal call and then a "new standard" call thrown in every once in a while.  The inconsistency has become even greater now both within the same game and certainly from one crew to another.

beer leagues are the perfect place for the new standards. I don;t know how many times I've seen violence escalate to the point of fights or match penalties simply because officials didn't call the stickwork that created the problems. Penalize the meatheads and the game is better for everyone.

If that's a problem, then the old standard should have been enough to take care of that, not calling every single tug, etc.

I haven't experienced much of that but then again I avoid the leagues with the hacks whose sticks whistle past your ears when they wiff a backhand.

[markthedeadhead 0]

I've found in my league they're focusing so much on the new standard of play penalties that the refs are missing other important calls. There have been a bunch of hitting from behind, tripping, elbowing, and charging penalties that are not being called because the refs are so busy looking for obstruction calls. Apparently, you can hit with your elbows at face height but not lift a guy's stick from behind to steal the puck. I was under the impression that the crackdown on obstruction calls was ADDED to existing penalties, not substituted.

[Chadd 916]

I've found in my league they're focusing so much on the new standard of play penalties that the refs are missing other important calls. There have been a bunch of hitting from behind, tripping, elbowing, and charging penalties that are not being called because the refs are so busy looking for obstruction calls. Apparently, you can hit with your elbows at face height but not lift a guy's stick from behind to steal the puck. I was under the impression that the crackdown on obstruction calls was ADDED to existing penalties, not substituted.

I've missed a couple things while looking for "new standard" calls a couple times. You see the stick go up and you focus on that, expecting a hook and you miss a different guy with a high hit or a trip. It does take some practice for the officials but more than anything it takes constant supervision and feedback from qualified instructors. Look at how much work the NHL put into it and they have a limited number of full-time guys who all wanted to support the new standards. You can't say the same things for USAH or HC.

[gtoddh 0]

The first few weeks of the "new enforcement" was a learning process for all refs and players. Refs were told that any play of the stick that wasn't a direct play on the puck was a penalty. Then USAH sent out refined guidlines that more directly addressed what is a legal play and what is a penalty.

I incorrectly called alot of penalties early on, such as raising an opponents stick from below, that I now do not call. In addition, players have adapted to what is allowed and what isn't, and should no longer be surprised when they're called for a penalty.

As for inconsistency, that's a product of the referee association for that area. Here in the Raleigh area our referees have been praised for their consistency in keeping most, if not all, games called the same way. If there is a strong association that keeps refs up to speed and weeds out those refs who can't, or won't, call the game the way it's supposed to be called now then your games should be consistent. If not, then you're subject to the inconsistencies you're experiencing.

As to the rinks that have threatened to not allow refs to work - I would think that the leagues there are USAH sanctioned, and if so, are subject to the same USAH rules as everyone else. That rink manager has no right to disallow refs from working there. The area referee-in-chief should be informed of this and he/she should speak with that rink manager. It's in everyone's best interest that all refs and players are on the same page with this "new standard."

As for the idea that adult league players shouldn't be subject to the new standard - that's just crap. Just because you grew up playing one way doesn't mean you can't change and now play another. Like others said, it prevents tempers from flaring so much because there isn't as much aggressive contact. You can still play hard, go into corners, drive the net, and have considerable contact. You just need to use your stick for what it's intended for, shooting and passing the puck.

I think the game will be much better with this "new standard." It will just take a while for players and refs to get completely comfortable with the way the game should be played and called now. Players need to drop their bad habits and refs need to learn what is legal and what is not. It will likely take all winter, but it's for the better.

[moose77 0]

Well, I can say from firsthand experience that the standard isn't being relaxed because of lack of effort on MY part! I was told to call the games a certain way by both USA Hockey and Hockey Canada and until I'm told differently, I'm calling the new standard.

Younger kids seemed to have picked up on it pretty good in my area. The older kids, well...the rep level players yes, the house level players are clueless. Just when I thought kids were starting to get it, I called my first Midget C House game and ended up calling 42 mins of penalties for one team and 48 for the other. They were predominately hooking, holding, and interference. I even had a talk with the captains between periods and told them if they'd just get their players to play the puck only with their sticks, keep their free hands off the other players, and only check the guys with the puck the game would flow a lot better. Maybe I was speaking a foreign language, but things didn't get any better.

As far as adults, I'd have to say they're doing a better job with it and the games have definitely gotten faster.

[All Torhs Team 0]

Ok I thought the calls were getting a bit better, but not after my last game. Both teams got over 15 penalties so both our coaches are out for a game or two. There were so many penalties that we did not play the third period!

There must be some sort of rule in USA hockey that would not count that as a game. I guess we ran out of ice time. But if the refs hadnt screwed everyone over it wouldnt have happened.

You cant call two peiods a game of hockey. It was a close game and we needed that third period.

[usahockey22 0]

I think the calls have backed off a bit, at least in the rec. league i'm playing in right now. The first few games, they wasted so much the penalties, it was ridiculous. I received 4 or 5 penalties within a couple of games, and none of them were intentional...usually it was a case of someone skating into my stick and falling down, skating over my stick blade and falling, etc. It's also a special pain in a recreational, non-check league, because no one is out there being violent or going after others, we are all just trying to play and have fun...then the refs take our ice time away by calling some ridiculous penalties that shouldn't be penalties.

I think the whole "standards of play" idea is good in theory, but it seems like it only detracts from a lot of leagues, as the refs feel obligated to call penalties that were obviously not even intentional. I used to think that as long as you were "going for the puck", a slight tap of the stick to the guy's leg (by accident) was fine...how else are you supposed to aggressively go after the puck in a non-check league? But it seems that they call every slight stick to stick or stick to body contact, regardless of the nature of the "violation", being accidental or intentional. And so now the rules technically haven't changed at all, but it leaves the refs with greater room for being subjective on the calls, and instead of the rules controlling the game, it's the refs. It completely depends on who it is.

I understand there were bad refs, biased refs, etc. who used to not make calls when they should, and this is meant to correct that...but I don't think more penalties helps anybody...calling penalties just because they can. If the referees were either better trained and/or more closely supervised, I don't think we would need this to begin with. Just my opinion, and maybe it's been working out better in other leagues. At least they're finally starting to back off in ours.

[hockeymom 2]

I videotape all of my kid's games and that has really helped understand the standards enforcement. One game she was hot about getting a penalty when she had lifted the stick of another player who was carrying the puck. The video replay showed her stick had slid up the other player's shaft and touched her glove... so it was a good call.

Without the video we would have continued to wonder what in the world the ref was doing. I imagine that is going to be the case for a lot of calls they make.

What drives me nuts is the inconsistency. I wish they were ALL calling to the new standards.

[usahockey22 0]

What drives me nuts is the inconsistency. I wish they were ALL calling to the new standards.

This is the inherent problem. These new standards just seem to give the bad refs more power to play with, a better ability to call a one-sided game. It's very easy for them to do so. Back when I played competitively, we would always know if we were playing a team in certain cities, that they would have bad reffing...this cost us some games, just because of the one-sided calls. The standards of play hasn't corrected this, but only added to the problem, as the refs can now do an even better job at this. Consistency was the problem before, and still is the problem. But I don't think it helps by allowing the refs even more leeway as to what they can call...